difficult child Hallucinated

[WSM]

A couple nights ago, I went into his room to check him before bed. He didn't have his pajamas on and took his shirt off and put a towel over his head. When I asked what he was doing he said he didn't know whether he should get up or down. He started standing up, then sitting down, standing up sitting down. I told him to sit down and asked again what he was doing. He was waiting for the white fluff to go away. What white fluff? He pointed to the towel on the floor. I asked where it came from. It came from the missile. What missile. The missile, the missile. Where's the missile? Blank look. It was hard to explain, he said missile by accident. What did you mean to say? "Gun. The white fluff comes when you shoot the gun." "Is there a gun in this room?" "No, I mean, I don't know." "Where's the gun." "In the room with the other skin." What? He repeated: in the room with the other skin. "Where's that room?" It's the room I was trying to get into before this one. I just stared at him. I didn't really know what to do. I figured safety first. "Did you shoot a gun today." "I don't know. No." "When was the last time you shot a gun?" (the right answer is never). "I didn't, I don't know."

I gave him water. "Do you want to see therapist." No. "Do you want to go to the hospital? (he liked the hospital last time he was there)?" No. "Do you remember what you were just telling me a few minutes ago?" Yes, about the guns. Are you ok? Yes. I left him to put on his pjs, came back he seemed okay. So I said good night and left him to go to bed. My 17 year old overheard my half of the conversation; 9 year old daughter overheard it all.

I called husband who was on a scouting trip with my son, and told him. He was glad I didn't 'over react' and had no criticisms of how I handled it. I had thought he would criticize that I had asked so many questions, 'interrogated' him.

Then I said that I thought this might have happened before the last time his brother was visiting, which must have been Feb 2005 (they were to the daytona race together). I mentioned that I had walked into difficult child's room and difficult child was talking oddly and I almost called to his brother, whom I knew was in an adjoining bedroom, to 'come here'. I had wanted another witness to the oddness. But I didn't call out to my brother in law because I had been afraid to startle difficult child by raising my voice and he 'came to' fairly quickly. The point of me telling husband about this was that this was not the first time or the second (a month or two ago I witnessed difficult child mumbling syllables that made no sense, but it was very brief), but might have first occurred back when difficult child was 8.

To my surprise husband was upset. "You were going to tell my brother!" "No, no, not now, back then, back in 2005 because he was another adult nearby." husband was still upset, "I can't believe you were going to tell my brother!"

I am constantly flabbergasted by husband's responses to things. Supposedly he tells brother in law everything because they are or were best friends. He certainly tells brother in law unpleasant things about our marriage. But no, brother in law shouldn't know about this. And the point of the incident was the difficult child might have had this problem a lot longer than we realized and the therapist/psychiatrist ought to know.

Oh wait, I understand: difficult child is one of the two poor creatures husband was put on earth to protect from himself (the other one is his mother)--husband doesn't want him to look bad to his brother (which I guess would make husband look bad), but husband doesn't seem to mind if he makes me look bad to his brother. Of course in that instance, husband ends up looking like a victim, whereas if his family knew difficult child was hallucinating, they might think less of difficult child and probably even husband who isn't parenting well. (actually they'd all want to jump in and tell husband how to parent and what to do and come up with weird and wild theories and pester him to death...it's not a functional family.)

Anyway...

The next day, while difficult child was washing dishes, daughter asked me: "Does difficult child have a gun in his room?"

I said no. Did you hear difficult child's weird talk last night? (difficult child stopped doing dishes and was watching us).

She said she had and described the white fluff, missiles (what are those), guns, etc... difficult child burst out:

"I didn't say any of that, I was talking about baseball. I was very tired." Then he put his forehead on the counter and began to almost cry. I took him up to his room and then explained to daughter that this was part of his mental illness and that's what his brown pill was for.

 

[smallworld]

Is he still on Lexapro? Like any SSRI, Lexapro can CAUSE hallucinations, not just in kids with BiPolar (BP)-like mood disorders, but in any child as a side effect. Someone needs to call the psychiatrist ASAP to report this episode. I suspect your difficult child needs to come off the Lexapro.

 

[therese005us]

I'm not sure if you should be worrying too much about these 'hallucinations'. I don't know your son's background. My first thoughts on handling this would be perhaps to make some notes of what he says, and your part of the conversation, but not to enter into his 'hallucination' for too long or in depth. and then, speak to his therapist about it, taking along your notes. It would be unusual for him to remember any or most of his 'hallucination/dream' and to talk about it in front of the children would probably stress him and then other siblings. daughter has dreams where she talks out loud like that, and I can join in too - I have never made too much of it, except to ask her later privately, does she remember saying 'such and such?' she usually doesn't. It usually only happens when she's overtired. I am of course, not aware of what medication/side effects might be having in your son's case.
Good luck with it, though, I can sense you are a little worried.

 

[Marguerite]

Devil's advocate here - is there any chance he was talking in his sleep? Or something similar... I've had difficult child 1 and even easy child 2/difficult child 2 (when younger) talking to me earnestly about some utter total nonsense, eyes wide open and seemingly awake. The thing was then though, that they didn't remember any of it next day. But for them it WAS late at night and they were also much more tired than usual.

My kids don't do anything by halves. They can be bouncing off the walls during the day but when they go to sleep, they sleep so incredibly soundly that they were bedwetters for years longer than normal. difficult child 1 sleeps so soundly that his eyes partly open again (which can freak people out if they don't know). He used to sleepwalk a lot (a worry when he slept on a top bunk).

If there is even a component of his illness that connects to some sort of sleep disorder, it might point Occupational Therapist (OT) some useful answers for you, and it could be something that husband would be happy to investigate (since it would mean difficult child 2 would at least for a time be considered saner than he is at the moment).

Some sleep disorders however do link in with mental disorder conditions; chicken or the egg situation.

Anyway, it's just a thought.

Marg

 

[crazymama30]

The odd talking can be a symptom of schizophrenia, or of a psychotic episode. Your signature says he is diagnosis'd with schizoid personality disorder, which is very similiar to schizophrenia. I would suggest that husband call psychiatrist, and that maybe he needs a different antipsychotic, the risperdal may not be cutting it for him.

I really do not know what to say about your husband's response.

 

[Christy]

I would definitely get in touch with the doctor. Medications may need adjusting.

I can understand husband wanting to keep things private but you need to be able to confide in another trusted adult and it sounds as if brother in law was the only one available at that time. There is too much "shame" and silence in dealing with the mentally ill and if more people talked about what they experience, others could benefit from it.

 

[BusynMember]

Sounds like the Lexapro to me. Even so, those are scary hallucinations.

 

[DammitJanet]

From a person who recently experienced delusions and hallucinations, they are extremely real to the person and you can remember them. Trying to talk the person out of believing that what they are experiencing is real is like trying to tell us that the sky isnt blue. It is their reality of the moment.

Im assuming your were here for my illness this past fall and remember my pregnancy delusion. Now I am 47 years old and have had a hysterectomy so there is no way in hades I could be pregnant. However, in my coma somehow I had delusions and they continued after I came out of the coma because my brain was damaged by the meningitis and one of my delusions was that I was pregnant with twins. I told everyone I was pregnant with twins. I was even convinced that I had somehow gotten ahold of a computer and come on the board and posted about my twins. This would have been a good trick considering I couldnt use my hands! I was telling my kids I was pregnant and that I needed them to move home to help me care for their new siblings! I had names for these new babies. I was telling their dad how he was in trouble for knocking me up. It was so real to me. Now there were a ton of other delusions and hallucinations too. I am still remembering things from that time. I ask people if certain things I remember are real or delusions. Some are real and some arent. I remember thinking I was at the elections because they left the TV on in my room. LOL.

 

[DDD]

It could be a number of things but sometimes, I think, we associate odd behaviors with the illness with-o considering it could be a more common issue like a sleep issue. My 22 year old easy child/difficult child has alcohol psychosis symptoms as well as intermittent confusions as a result of his Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI). I find it upsetting (although I do not show my concern) and fear that he may "walk to the party" in the middle of the night. He thinks there is one, he believes he knows who is there and where it is and sometimes asks me to drive him there (or worse...let him drive himself there). I do not sleep until he is soundly snoring. Often not until 5 AM.

I mention this not in an effort to steal your thread but to express concern about safeguards to protect him. Whether sleep related, medication related or illness related do you have an alarm system or another way to assure he doesn't wander? Scarey thought, I know. DDD

 

[WSM]

I do not like the lexapro, and I can't really say why. I think it makes him bolder, but most people think he's more alert. For a while before the depakote then now the risperdal, I thought it gave him an aggressive edge. But it's subtle and no one is going to listen to me. Risperdal is supposed to suppress hallucinations, so maybe they will up it.

He already had a therapist appointment this morning. I printed off the recollection for my husband to take with him. I don't know if he will give it to the therapist or not.

Last night husband did the weekly "I'm going to trust you, you say you want to build trust, well, here's your chance" thing with difficult child. He's done this every week for the last two years and every week, difficult child does something untrustworthy and last night was no different. husband's cell phone, which was on the patio table, is gone. Cellphone # 5 difficult child has disappeared.

So there will be a lot to discuss with difficult child. therapist says he doesn't want to hear any more complaints about difficult child from us, (we have to expect this sort of behavior since we aren't putting him in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC)). Instead therapist wants to concentrate on difficult child's feelings about his bio-mom.

I hope difficult child comes home with a recommendation that the risperdal is increased. I am concerned that he is hallucinating; I am also concerned that when he hallucinates, he's not hallucinating about dancing lollipops, but about missiles, shooting guns, fluff that's hard to explain, and other rooms with 'skin'.

I will ask husband what the therapist said about the hallucination, but what do you want to bet husband reports that the therapist said it was not unexpected or anything to worry about. Except I've been there on two occasions when the therapist has quizzed difficult child about hearing voices or seeing things. therapist suspects.

 

[WSM]

...it could be a more common issue like a sleep issue. My 22 year old easy child/difficult child has alcohol psychosis symptoms as well as intermittent confusions as a result of his Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI). ...Whether sleep related, medication related or illness related do you have an alarm system or another way to assure he doesn't wander? Scarey thought, I know. DDD

I think it might end up being passed off as sleep related, but this was 8 pm, and difficult child has never slept more than 5 hours a night since forever. He was sitting in a well lit room and when I knocked he got up and cross a few feet of floor and turned off the interior alarm (did I mention difficult child requested one last week because he thought people might come in his room at night and 'do things' to get him in trouble, and yesterday he made husband walk down the street and around the corner to talk to him, and he's taken to checking his lunch before going to day camp to make sure people haven't 'put stuff' in it. husband makes the lunches about 10 minutes before he hands it to difficult child).

Anyways...it was early evening, difficult child was sitting up in a well lit room, he was appropriately responsive to the knock on the door when he turned off the alarm so I could open the door, and he looked wide awake. He wasn't mumbling. He doesn't have a habit of sleep walking or heavy sleep. We have alarms also on the outside of his door so that if he sleepwalks, or leaves his room at anytime we know. He wasn't sick, he hadn't had any strenuous or unusual activity, 8 pm is not a typical time for him to sleep, I don't think I've ever seen him sleep at that time.

Also the other time in Feb 2005 when I saw him hallucinate, I'd gone to his room to get him for dinner. The time in early April when he mumbled conversationally and said 'sister' and 'door' was after school.

 

[smallworld]

Please don't rely on husband and the therapist to address this episode. The situation warrants the oversight of a board-certified child psychiatrist.

 

[graceupongrace]

I think smallworld is right. Any time something "off" happens with kids on these medications, the psychiatrist should be informed.

therapist should hear about cellphone #5, as well as the paranoid behaviors, although, unfortunately, it sounds like that won't be happening -- husband doesn't want to say it and therapist doesn't want to hear it. Sigh.

 

[TerryJ2]

If therapist suspects, that's a good thing. He apparently needs more time and more info.

I can't recall why you aren't attending these sessions ... it seemed like you were there recently and husband said something weird and you didn't call him on it ... anyway, I would definitely tell therapist, because he needs all this info, not just bits and pieces. That's one thing that took us so long with-our difficult child--we were dealing with-individual behaviors, and until our easy child made an appointment on her own, and told the therapist in no uncertain terms that there was a pattern, he didn't get it.

At any rate, I'm glad you have the alarms installed. Good safety devices. You don't want your son hallucinating on his way out the door and onto the street. It makes me want to hug him.

You handled it well. You stayed calm and gathered as much info as you could. I've given my easy child water when she has had night terrors. It's a good, concrete, every day item--a glass of water--that somehow helps anchor them back to reality. It's a good transition.

Best of luck.

 

[Marguerite]

WHo says therapist doesn't want to hear any more complaints? Did you hear this form therapist yourself, or did husband tell you that is what therapist said?

If you know tihs to be true, then it could be because it's less a therapist issue and more a psychiatrist issue.

I'm glad you've considered the sleep disturbance option thoroughly. I agree, it doesn't sound sleep-related.

Marg

 

[susiestar]

WOW! That is a scary hallucination, with missile, guns and a "skin room"? Not sure what the white fluffy stuff was either. I would call the psychiatrist or fax a letter with your recollection of events to him. Faxing to therapist might also be useful

If there is ANY chance of your finding a way to deal with any of this then you MUST go to the therapist and psychiatrist meetings. You know husband will not tell the truth. You know difficult child will not either. So if at all possible you need to go to appts. It may be what saves you, husband, difficult child and the other kids. If you are going to stay in this relationship then you MUST know what is going on in appts, esp as husband is delusional.

I would think that this would be expected behavior because of the schizoid personality disorder. As paranoid as the kid sounds it also would make a person wonder if he is past the personality disorder and is headed straight into schizophrenia. When he sees or hears these things they are totally real to him. So if he gets violent hallucinations then he very well may act on what they do and/or say to him. I am sure you have already done this, but please make sure that there are no guns/hunting stuff (like bows and arrows, etc...) in the home. Also make sure he doesn't go to someone's home and take something like this.

Since husband is delusional and difficult child is dangerous and slyly manipulative, faxing the therapist and psychiatrist with the info about this or going to the appointments is very important to help keep yourself and your kids safe. The increasing paranoia and hallucinations are not a good sign.

Please keep a record of the times/dates he hallucinates and what it is about and what he does while hallucinating.

Praying for your safety. (as I said before, things are going to get a LOT worse until difficult child is out of the home. This is just the barebones beginnings.)

 

[Marguerite]

It shouldbe possible (socially, with respect to your 'odd' husband) for you to fax/email the info to psychiatrist and therapist simply saying, "FYI - I was the witness to this, I have minuted it for your information."
If husband gets snotty about it, simply point out that this is standard procedure, you have said nothing inappropriate or emotive, simply added in valuable information.

I also see this as possibly good news - what you describe should be treatable. Sociopathy is not. And from your previous descriptions, I was thinking difficult child was sociopathic. Whereas now, I can see a really disturbed sick kid but one who could be helped, if only husband would get out of the way and begin helping the therapists instead of enabling difficult child.

Marg

 

[WSM]

WHo says therapist doesn't want to hear any more complaints? Did you hear this form therapist yourself, or did husband tell you that is what therapist said?

I was there myself. I think he said it because we were going in and just spilling frustration on therapist, "difficult child did this, that, said this, etc..." I think he has a general idea: I gave him the week by week behavior log. It's the same stuff, stealing, lying, malicious vandalism, sneaking, stealing knifes, cutting things, etc...

 

[WSM]

I also see this as possibly good news - what you describe should be treatable. Sociopathy is not. And from your previous descriptions, I was thinking difficult child was sociopathic. Whereas now, I can see a really disturbed sick kid but one who could be helped, if only husband would get out of the way and begin helping the therapists instead of enabling difficult child.

I think he is both, I think he has a serious bio-based mental illness like schizophrenia or bipolar--there's extremely strong genetic background here. But I also think he's psychopathic. Maybe not murderously so, but he just has no conscience, he just does not care, he is callous, he does not care if he pleases anyone.

I think his schizophrenia/whatever is eventually going to blunt the psychopathy. But I also think there are people who know how bad off he is, but it's such a horrible horrible diagnosis for a TWELVE year old, no one really wants to say it.

The therapist says, he's 'very, very disturbed'. He does not say, 'he's very, very sick."

 

[WSM]

Yesterday husband and difficult child had a therapist appointment (the next psychiatrist appointment is next Wed, I think).

husband 'forgot' to tell therapist about the hallucination; I'd sent it to his computer at work to print off, and he meant to but the computer system was down and he didn't and then he forgot. And he also forgot to tell therapist that difficult child stole another cell phone the night before.

I think there really is no excuse for forgetting. Hallucinations are SIGNIFICANT. But maybe hallucinations and weirdness are just so normal to husband that it's not on the top of his mind like it would be for normal people. Or ... he just wants to forget.

Anyway, he said difficult child and therapist spoke alone and difficult child came out crying and said the session was rough. On the way home difficult child said it would be best if he weren't there anymore, he'd be happier, husband would be happier, I would be happier, little sister wouldn't have to be afraid of him....

husband took this as suicide talk. I wonder if it wasn't a bid to be put into a Residential Treatment Center (RTC), go live with crazy grandma, or be sent to a boarding school.

husband was very upset and tried to call therapist after the appointment, but as of COB therapist hadn't returned the call.

Sunday difficult child goes to a military camp for 3 weeks. It's the first time we've ever been away from him for that long. Either it's going to be wnderful or husband is going to be very anxious and take it out on us.