difficult child has gone off the deep end

Scent of Cedar *

Well-Known Member
husband and I both developed a case of shingles after an extended period of difficult child-related stress. As I understand it, we harbor the virus if we've ever been exposed to chicken pox.

Under stress, the virus can overwhelm our immune systems.

We both developed the rashy part, but not the lesions. It was very painful. We refused to believe it could be shingles because we both developed the symptoms around the same time.

But it was.

In a way Kathy, this is a blessing. A warning, pure and simple, that you need to learn to take care of yourself, to find some way to cope with the hellishness of that place we are in, where the enemy is your own child.

In a normal situation, you define the problem, make changes to your life and schedule to protect yourself, and fight the good fight. When it is your own child who is...I still don't know what to call it, after all these years. Not the enemy, I don't feel that way...but the vehicle of pain, maybe. The vehicle of uncertainty, of disbelief and self condemnation, of outright fear, of shock and awe campaigns ~ what in the world do we do, then?

That is where the PTSD comes in for parents, I think.

Not so much dealing with the physical stuff. It's that internal conflict, that sense of FOG.

Just lately Kathy, I've begun learning about the cold-eyed choice, the determined intent, to survive. I am reclaiming my personhood. It has been so many years since I have been a person. I have been instead, a traumatized mother, a victim of difficult child children whom I love to distraction, someone more concerned about her grown kids than the responsibility, the sacred responsibility, of living and cherishing her own life.

I'm so sorry, Kathy. Given the similarity of symptoms among all our kids, we can understand that this is not, and never was, about our parenting. There is a beginning kind of strength in that knowledge.

You are strong enough to do this, Kathy. Your husband has been right there with you through this. In that, we have both been so fortunate.

Holding you in my thoughts and prayers, Kathy. You will make it to the other side of this. There will come a day when you realize you have been able to take joy in something ~ a sunset, a butterfly, the feel of the breeze....

Everything is going to be alright, Kathy. We do come to a place, not of acceptance really, but of joyous, determined survival.

Cedar
 

pasajes4

Well-Known Member
I am so sorry you are suffering. I just turned 60 and will be getting the shot. I have had an outbreak several years ago.
 

AnnieO

Shooting from the Hip
Kathy, I read this at work and couldn't respond. I want you to know I'm holding you and difficult child in my heart. Hugs

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Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
I must have a very mild case of shingles. I really have had very little pain. It feels like a generalized low back ache which can be managed easily with Ibuprofen. The rash hasn't spread and is not painful. Maybe it is because I got on the anti-virals quickly. Most of the time I forget that I even have shingles. I do worry that maybe the pain will come when the rash breaks open and starts oozing although the doctor said it might not even do that. I would think I would be in pain by now, though. The rash started on Monday and the preceding back ache came a couple of days before that.

difficult child has switched from threatening us to the woe is me tactic. I have her blocked from my phone but she sent some emails to my school email address. I just deleted them without reading them. husband has listened to some of her voice mails and shared them with me but I wish he wouldn't. I can just feel my anxiety level shoot up when he starts telling me about her.

It is time that she learned she is responsible for taking care of herself. I coincidentally started reading Co-dependent No More at the same time I had the consultation with the nurse practitioner who very bluntly told me the same thing. . . no more financial help or it would never end.

I don't know what we will do if she decides to check into rehab. I know she will do it with the expectation that we will "help" her financially with the halfway house rent. I am afraid it will just turn into a lifetime of rehab and halfway houses that we pay for. The nurse practitioner said that we shouldn't even do that. She said we had paid for rehab and sober living twice now and to let difficult child fend for herself.

I guess I will just take it one day at a time.
 

toughlovin

Well-Known Member
I have been reading some stuff lately about how rock bottom is a fallacy and the idea that we turn our backs on our loved ones is way off base. If this was any other disease we would of course help with treatment. My general sense is we all have to find our way in this journey and the truth is somewhere in between.

I definitely think you are doing the right thing by stepping back and away while she is actively using...you have to do that for your own sanity and helping her financially while she is using will not help her.

However I don't regret helping my son find all those rehabs...at least it gave him some bursts of sober time and some clear thinking. I don't think you should spend a lot more money on rehabs either....but I think giving her emotional support and help with sober living could be a good thing.

TL


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Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
TL, I agree with you which is why we have been willing to spend so much on treatment for her. However, there has to come a point where we can stop or this will continue until we die. husband and I would like to retire in two years which means we have to start paying off some loans (one of which is difficult child's treatment loan) and we can't do that and support her, too.

I don't regret anything we have done so far but I'm not sure if it can or should continue. That's if she even goes into treatment. Right now she does have another full time job which she could support herself on if she really budgets but she is not good at that. I guess we will see if she gets better at that now that she knows we are not helping her financially anymore.
 
S

Signorina

Guest
Kathy,

First and foremost- I am glad the anti virals are working and that you are not too acutely ill. Your health is really important.

As for your difficult child and her future and your role in it--I don't claim to have any great advice and I am usually giving advice that I myself struggle to put to use in real life...

But I want you to remember that you don't need to make any decisions right now. These damn kids keep us on our toes and it's the roller coaster that's the hardest part to weather. I know I am always trying to anticipate every possible twist, turn and drop and I feel like if I come up with a strategy for every potential that it somehow won't be so awful. And I never get it right, he throws me curves when I least expect it and there are long lulls where I wake up panicking even though things are quiet. My crystal ball is very inefficient. And when I am confronted with a need to act; my reactions and answers rarely go as I planned.

The revolving questions in my head "how will I?", "what will I?", "what is right?", "what if?" literally make me seasick. And I think that formulating a plan will be the cure. And it's not and even if it were: NOTHING EVER GOES AS PLANNED. So, just know that you don't have to decide ANYTHING right now. You can decide when you get there. Cross those bridges when you come to them. She's working full time, let that be enough for now.

Many, many many hugs to you.

Take care, dear friend.
 

toughlovin

Well-Known Member
Kathy,

I think there are all kinds of support... and I personally dont think you should put your retirement and financial health at risk to pay for more rehab. There are various types of rehab and some of them are low cost and if she wants it and is willing she could do one of the low cost kind which of course is not as cushy as they are used to.

My son is in a court ordered long term residential program which has been the best thing for him and we are not paying a cent for it. We do give him cigarettes and a little spending money but that is it!! I think it has been really good for him to be in a sense not having us pay for rehab and for it to be court ordered.

We are supporting him by going to the parent support groups and going to see him every week, even though it is an hour drive away during rush hour etc. It is inconvenient but i think important. So that is what I mean by not turning our back.... we are there for him and he knows it..... but I am no longer willing to pay for expensive treatment either. We have been there done that and he has thrown it away so we are done doing that.

I am also glad you are feeling ok given the shingles... makes me think I might want to get the shingles vaccine!

TL


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busywend

Well-Known Member
Kathy, sorry for this turn of events. difficult child should not get another cent from you or husband. she does not deserve or comprehend what you have sacrificed. One day I hope she will, but that lesson can not come if you pay for another thing. I don't even care if you have agreed to pay for some small thing for her. Stop it now. Your intentions are good ones, but at this point your help will only hinder her progress. Hugs!! Heal quickly friend!

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Childofmine

one day at a time
I have been reading some stuff lately about how rock bottom is a fallacy and the idea that we turn our backs on our loved ones is way off base. If this was any other disease we would of course help with treatment.

I know this is something we all think about and wonder about in our heart of hearts.

How much do we help our precious adult difficult children?
Do we keep on and on helping?
How many times is enough times?
What if it never works and we go bankrupt?
Isn't it worth it because it is our kids?
What if the next time is the time it works?

Like TL said, if this is cancer, don't we try it all? Diabetes? etc.

This is a tough one. A few things I think are relevant---realizing there is no absolute, clear answer to the above:

1. Resources are finite. Money, time, etc. We don't have unlimited resources, any of us.
2. If the person doesn't want to change, you can send them to Hazelden (one of the very best and most successful in outcomes) and spend tens of thousands and it won't matter. David Sheff, a nationally known journalist who has a lot of money, sent his son to multiple, very expensive private rehabs, and Nic still relapsed after he got through and out of ALL of them. I don't know if he is clean today or not. Does each rehab help even though they relapse? Who knows? To me, it makes sense that at least the person is hearing the "right stuff", even if they can't/don't/won't practice it consistently. But only God knows.
3. Everybody's bottom is different. One person in Al-Anon told me after a meeting one time (take what you like here...) that the only real rock bottom is death. (I sure didn't feel good when she said that).
4. You can spend a lot of money and the person still isn't "cured" of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. You might buy some time if the person is compliant with treatment, the stars are aligned in the heavens and their case is treatable. Of course, sometimes good treatment results in a cure too.
5. So we're back where we are started. We are adults and we can decide what our own boundaries are. Only we know what we have been through. Only we know what our own situations are. We are as significant as our difficult children are. We are only responsible for ourselves.

Kathy, I don't know what I will do if my difficult child ever wants to go to rehab. All of the other times he has gone---it's been me wanting it and pushing it and him dragging behind. It's never been---to my knowledge---something he really wanted.

If and when that day ever comes, I believe I will help him get there. I don't know what that will look like.

I am through trying to get him to do something that he doesn't initiate, push and want. It doesn't work. And if he wants it badly, it still might not work.

Blessings to you today.
 

toughlovin

Well-Known Member
If you look at David Sheffs Facebook page he has a bunch of stuff nd anger at the idea we should just turn our backs on our loved ones.....which I don't think anyone here is doing. From looking at his page I believe nic is sober today.

TL


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susiestar

Roll With It
Kathy, ask the doctor to rx lidocaine patches for you. Insurance will cover them as they are now available in generic. Even medicare/medicaid covers them for shingles. They are useful for almost any ache/pain/muscle strain, but they are a miracle for shingles. My dad had shingles and he hates almost any medications. They were a lifesaver and if I hadn't had them for my back pain he would not even have tried them. I had a hissy fit and insisted that he try one for an hour and he was shocked at the relief. Even with the causing a generalized pain, use them anyway.

These are NOT ADDICTING. They provide localized pain relief and NONE of the side effects of pain medications. Honestly, I think everyone should have a few on hand for emergencies. You can use up to 3 patches at a time and they are on for 12 hrs and then off for 12 hrs. They have given me some of my life back since I cuold get them now that they are generic. Before they were almost $300 for a box of 30. Now ins covers them at $4 for 3 boxes a month generic.

As you will be wearing them on your back, use a rice bag or heating pad to warm them up before applying them. Put your bra straps over them if needed. THey stay on better if warmed up before you put them on. You can cut them for knees/ankles/neck/bendy areas or if you only need them for smaller areas. They work just fine when cut and they can make a HUGE difference to you.

Is it more important to go and spread this to others and not take a sick day or three, or to take care of your health and not make others sick? Think carefully before you don't take a few days off the way the doctor said to. If you push yourself, the shingles WILL get worse and you could make others sick too. That would be bad.

I hope you feel better soon. I am sorry about difficult child. All you can do now is protect yourselves and let her cope with her own problems. I am glad you are working with someone on medications. They can make a huge difference. My husband takes celexa and it is amazing for him. It can be really really helpful.

(((((hugs)))))
 

susiestar

Roll With It
FYI, shingles can come back MANY times. I know my gma fought it for YEARS. ANY cold, virus, or flu would activate it again. Almost any type of illness or cold would trigger another very painful bout of shingles for her. I know when she finally tried the lidocaine patches she cried because it was the first relief she had had in a couple of months. I had learned about the patches from helping a friend study for a pharmacology class and I insisted my mother ask gma's doctor about them. Rx'ing them was a 'no brainer' according to her doctor, he had just not thought of it and he apologized for not remembering to rx them for her. At that point all the patients at her retirement community started asking for htem, which I later learned and laughed about. The pharmacist the center was close to laughed about having to order several cases a month for the home when before they hadn't even used half a case. Use of the patches was found to have increased participation in exercise classes and outings to a substantial degree as many patients had pain relief with-o being loopy feeling or sleepy from pain medications. Always good, in my opinion.
 

PatriotsGirl

Well-Known Member
Lidocaine is great!! I used it after my cancer laser surgeries and it was extremely helpful. I believe it is also in Aloe for sunburns..

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Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Thank you ladies. I really am in very little pain, though, so I don't need the lidocaine patches. At most, I had some mild back discomfort that is managed with a couple of ibuprofen. I know that I have been very lucky when it comes to shingles.

As far as difficult child, we have had no contact for about three weeks. She continued to try to get us to pay for things for her. She even called husband's phone from the pharmacy to pay for her medications but he ignored the call.

difficult child seems to have given up now but has resorted to posting ugly things about me on her facebook. My niece called to tell me last night. difficult child is posting all of her old grievances against me going back as far as 8th grade. She neglected to mention the trip to Europe in 8th grade or the new car when she was 16. She has a very selective memories.

Too bad she is not using her time more productively like finding a second job or working on getting her food stamps. She made a remark about something "very bad" that she was forced to do. She still doesn't get that anything that she has done is a result of her choices.
 

Kathy813

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Thanks, DDD, but she called my husband's sister to tell her that she has anal cancer and needs support. If that is possibly true, what should we do?
 
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