difficult child refuses to do anything we say, sneaks out, etc

[flutterbee]

Despite that we did have a break through from him, though it's far from encouraging. He finally came out and admitted that even though in his mind he knew that we, as parents, had to be the boss that he couldn't stand it. He can't stand having anyone be in charge of him or have any power over him. And... he's not willing to work on that in therapy. He doesn't think this will effect him one bit when he begins working, out in the real world, etc. It's impossible to reason with him. He feels he's all grown up, can make all the right decisions, and should be allowed to do whatever he wishes.

Smallworld and Sara are right about the medications, of course. They know their stuff. But, some of this could also be typical teen stuff (typical teen, teen tyrant..however you want to look at it ).

I see this with my son, who is 16. Drives me up the freakin' wall. We had it out one night a few weeks ago and he said something along the lines of, 'If someone is being 'unreasonable' (in his mind, mind you), I'm going to let them know and it doesn't matter if it's a boss, teacher, parent, whatever.' I told him good luck holding a job then and to be prepared to work minimum wage for the rest of his life.

2 days later he was filling out an online application for Kroger and there are about 33 pages of personality questions. One of the questions was along the lines of, I have problems taking direction from people in authority. He answered, "Strongly Disagree" and I laughed out loud and asked him about his comment earlier in the week. He said he thought about it and realized it wasn't such a good idea.

My point is, that it can be indicative of something bigger at play, such as medication reactions and/or mania. But some of it is probably typical teen behavior. Parents of difficult child's get the fun job of trying to distinguish between the two. My son was able to listen to me and - even though it took a couple of days - think rationally about it. That's how I know it's typical teen stuff. If your son is in a manic episode, that won't happen (being able to think rationally about it) and that's difficult child stuff.

Fun, fun, fun!

 

[lisae]

Wow, your original post reads just like our son and situation! He's been in treatment since September with mixed results, mostly good and we feel like family life has improved. He doesn't leave when in the middle of a melt-down; he doesn't punch holes in the walls anymore. He's on Seroquel 100mg split in two doses per day. He's also on Concerta for ADD non hyper type and has doubled his grades! However, while his diagnosis is anxiety disorder I keep thinking BiPolar (BP), (my entire family has BiPolar (BP) to some extent) esp. with the grandiose behavior of not wanting any control whatsoever.

And, he continues to have the rages, although he is handling them a little better - for example, tonight he came out raging because his twin had smoked the last butt that twin had earlier promised to share. I now try to stay calm and uninvolved when he starts but after about ten minutes of him a) cursing his brother and b) flipping things off counters, throwing things around the kitchen and pounding on food containers to the point of cracking one, I lost it too. I asked him how long he thought he'd keep a job if he overreacted like this when a co-worker took that last cup of coffee... He did look a little embarrassed at that! Still, when I asked him to go outdoors and shovel snow he screamed more and refused, and I had to call his dad who was in town on an errand. husband says "I've had enough, I'm getting him a pack of cigarettes!" Gee, we have done so well NOT supporting them in their lousy decision to start smoking.... After husband got home and told him to go shovel snow, difficult child did - but I'm sure only because cigs were on the way. So he 'won' this round - he is definitely able to wear us down.

One thing is definitely pick your battles, we did not overreact when they started smoking cigs because we went through both boys using marijuana and they are both testing negative and we are starting family SA treatment Tuesday. They were both willing to quit weed because difficult child's psychiatrist wouldn't continue his Seroquel unless she saw clean tests.

My one ray of hope in this is that difficult child wants to stop raging and scares himself when he spirals out of control, so he has fully cooperated with medication. I am worried that a mood stablizer is what he really needs.

 

[BusynMember]

I don't think he's acting typical teen. I've had two typical teen's and they didn't get THAT out of shape by being told "no" nor did they get violent or run away. They pouted, moped, talked about me in their room to their friends, etc.
I also think, the more I read, that the wild moodswings can either by bad medications (I agree with Sara and smallworld on that) or illegal use of drugs or both. My daughter had nutsy moodswings on drugs. Sadly, when a behavior gets far worse in the teen years, it can be the disorder getting worse, but it is also a huge red flag for illegal drug/alcohol use and teens can hide that well. They don't necessarily come home babbling about the colored lights. My daughter even worked, and she tells me now (after the fact) that she was so into drugs she even tried heroin a few times. I never would have guessed--we thought she had bipolar. So be careful. The medications for bipolar made her 100% worse partly because she didn't have bipolar--it just looked like it due to her drug use. Smoking is a red flag for drug use. While certainly not every teen who smokes uses drugs, kids who smoke are more likely to use drugs and/or drink a lot (smokes and alcohol go together). Alcohol can be as bad for our difficult child's as illegal substances, so I'd check that out as well. Bipolar medications, which he's NOT on, will only help if he isn't abusing anything else. otherwise, his other drugs or alcohol will make the prescription medications useless. Good luck, hon, to you and your son.

 

[Star*]

Hi & welcome,


I think he would benefit from anger management classes or therapy. And believe me kids look at you like "ANGER WHAT? Like the movie? Oh Mom Thanks but no thanks." Actually the real classes aren't like that and he would learn coping techniques to curb his temper.

My son will NOW instead of getting in your face, say "I need my space for a minute and walk off." I don't know what he's telling himself when he walks away, but the good thing is he's able to get what used to be a really horrible throwing, screaming, destructive temper under control. Now you would really really have to provoke him to get him to come after you or be physical. Pretty much unless you start it - he's going to walk away. That has been a very good thing for him (and us).

Our therapist was the one that told us to go home and write out a plan of "next time if" and we went over it, changed things, and put into it what we would and would not tolerate. When the next time did happen, we had clear communication and crisp lines as to what was going to happen. If he did X - Z would ensue. If he got physical - One of us would call 911. If he ran away - we reported it every day like the law said we had to. We didn't look for him - or pine over him. We let him go and it was the best thing - he even told our therapist "I ran away - they didn't even care." And the therapist said "What were you saying to Mom and Dad when YOU ran away? I love it here - I care about you? Not hardly. Get off the pity train."

Sorry you had to find us but glad you did.

Post often and seriously think about a psychologist for your kid. If you can't get him to go - THEN YOU GO - you may learn a trick or two about "cat wrangling"

Hugs
STar

 

[witzend]

Perhaps since the reward of money seemed to work for a while, you can talk with him about the rewards being your time and energy. At 15, what type of general support are you giving him? Does he get a ride to school, or take the bus? Do you take him to movies (or other outings) with the family? Does he do his own laundry? Who cooks for him?

If he doesn't want to get in the car when you need to take him to a doctors appointment, maybe the next time he wants a ride to the mall or a friend's house you can tell him you hope he has enough money for the bus, or reflective gear for when he rides his bike. Point him in the direction of the peanut butter at dinner time. Assure him that when he wants to take on his proper role in the family - that of the 15 year old child - you will take on your proper role in the family - that of chief cook, chauffeur, laundress, etc.

It seems clear that I'm oversimplifying, but then again it couldn't hurt to point out all of the sacrifices you make for him, and how much he'd miss them if you got tired enough of his sass to cut him off to the bare minimums. You might try it for a few days or a week (without telling him how long you intend to continue) and when he gets past the point of a hissy fit, you can see if he wants to revisit the issue of his behavior and how it affects yours.

 

[flutterbee]

Excellent advice, Witz.

 

[weatheringthestorm]

A little update....

First let me thank all of your for your responses. I've read each and everyone and taken much of the advice. Despite the fact that I actually have a good support network here this site really helps me. Not only is there the good advice from people who really know what they're talking about but it just feels good to talk to people who KNOW...

difficult child came home Christmas Eve. We went to my mother-in-laws that afternoon, had Christmas morning, to my mom's (where he had been staying) for dinner, etc. All went well. Yes, I'm keeping in mind that gifts tend to make all of us happy and nice!

The 26th we went and got his learner's permit so he can begin learning to drive. We weren't sure we wanted to do this since he hasn't exactly shown a great deal of responsibility. But, we went ahead because it gives us something to take from him. He so depseratley wants to drive.

It's only been a few days, but so far everything seems to be going well. His mood is the best it's been in months. He doesn't seem too depressed or too happy. There have been a few potential problems with his little brother, but he's handled it well.

I know this isn't likely to last, but am enjoying it while it does!!! Oh, it turns out he's quite the good driver.

 

[standswithcourage]

I agree with the smoking part. My son started with cigarettes when he was 15. We didnt know it for a long time. He would smoke away from home. Then it moved onto pot. Then from there to other things. All those other things made him violent and it seemed very not normally moody. You can know when the moodiness is not normal. He is 24 now and in jail for contributing to the deliquency of a minor. A price to pay for using drugs! However, I believe your son does have some mood problems that could be corrected with the right medications - but his refusal to go is frustrating. My son went through the same thing. He stopped taking his ADHD medications when he was a junior in high school. Then he started self medicating. Maybe you can stabalize your son soon. Good luck.

 

[klmno]

My son is younger so this advice might have already been tried. He does get in modes like your difficult child and we're working on the medications and my difficult child has acted just like yours, so it might be worth a shot. When I see things have turned into a power struggle, I just quit whatever I've been trying- it's pointless in our house. When he's leaving without permission and I see the regular discipline/punishments aren't working, (I'm talking days time-not hours), I started waiting until a somewhat calm period and saying, "I know sometimes it's hard for you to stay put and sit still in the house- so, if you feel you HAVE to get out and do something, you need to either be back in 15-20 mins. or call me from a friend's house (use caller ID) so I'll know where you are. If I have to come look for you, you are inbigger trouble. If I look for you and can't find you, police will be called and you'll be in VERY BIG trouble because safety is first and you better let me know you are safe if you are." Calling the police here became a last resort because I used to call every "disappearance" on previous therapist's advice, and I can assure you, not only didn't they appreciate it, but when in court for difficult child's crime spree, it looked more like I was an incompetent parent. I now keep them out of it if at all possible.

I will say, even though difficult child wouldn't admit outright, and probably doesn't fully realize, that there are times he just can't find it in him to "stay put", if he left the house (after this conversation happened once or twice), he now comes home quickly or calls and asks if he can play at XXXX's house. I'm not talking late at night. Anyway, this approach seems to work and I'm ok with it- as long as it appears the problem is bipolar and we're working on medications. This behavior goes along with other symptons- EXCESSIVE talking, easily frustrated/angry, inability to concentrate at moments yet super focused on some things, etc. I left him alone at home for a short period a couple of mos. ago and wasn't here when I got back. Then, I walked into the kitchen and found a scribbled note saying "had to get out and ride my bike- will be back soon" and I was thrilled- he was back in about 10 mins. When he was first disappearing, it frustrated me more because he would be angry, so I was angry more for him not minding. When I started taking this approach, a lot of his anger, then mine, went away. I can't help but think now that sometimes he was angry because he really was "hyper" and foresaw a battle with me for expecting him to "stay put"--

Just one theory-- I'm still evaluating the situation with my difficult child so this could change at any moment!!

 

[weatheringthestorm]

Before we brought my difficult child home from my mom's we decided that if he felt he couldn't handle it any more and needed to get out he could say so and be allowed to walk around the block for 15 min. After 15 min we needed to hear from him. He also knows that if he leaves the house without permission we will call the police.

I don't know if it's the higher dose of medications or the "high" of Christmas and learning to drive, but he's doing much better. A couple of things have gone wrong and he's handled them in stride (I can't remember the last time that has happened). He's actually behaving a lot like a "normal" teen. He hasn't been very moody (only little hints here and there that he quickly overcomes) and doesn't seem to be so depressed or terminally angry.

While I'm encouraged I've still met the boy; so I'm not holding my breath or anything. But after what we've been through lately I'll take whatever little break I can get!! There is plenty coming up to destroy the peace.... homework, going back to school, his smoking (I'm going to make a new posting for that issue), etc

Today (as long as the roads are clear enough) he's going to drive while I do my shopping and he even mentioned going sledding with his little brother. Add to that visiting with my baby nephew and it just might be a good day.