difficult child tried to trip me

[Wiped Out]

Can't believe I'm posting again so soon!

I'm truly considering calling the psychiatrist but I'm not sure he can do anything to help.

difficult child often walks by and "bumps" into me He constantly steps in front of me, "accidentally elbows" me, etc... He knows darn well that we know they aren't accidents. We call him on it every time but nothing changes. (by the way, even though he is shorter than me he now weighs about 15 pounds more than me-so far I have not been hurt-he doesn't do it hard). He isn't out and out violent how he used to be, it's more of a passive aggressive type of thing? I'm not even sure if that is what to call it. It is subtle to a point and it isn't necessarily when he is upset about something.

This morning we took him to see "Mission Impossible". As he was walking out of the bathroom after the movie he "bumped" into me. I told him to stop. Then as we were walking through the parking lot he came up from behind and tripped me. Luckily I didn't fall because I could really have been hurt. difficult child did not understand why I was upset and didn't think he had done anything wrong because I wouldn't have fallen and I couldn't have gotten hurt.

When I tried to explain he just got angry and made noise to show that he wasn't listening. He did receive a consequence but this behavior has me really upset. It's to the point where I have to know where he is at all points so that he doesn't "bump" into me or make me fall, etc...

 

[Steely]

Gosh he sounds JUST like Matt. He did this to me often, and at 14 it was his gateway into getting more and more physical with me.

I would call the psychiatrist. When have his medications been last adjusted? Have you tried an AP with him?

I am so sorry. I really wish I understood the psychology of these kids better. I never could grasp why Matt did this ALL the time except it was his vie for power and dominance. But I also never could figure out if there was a chemical component to it.

 

[Steely]

OK - wait - I just re- read his medication list and he is on 2 APs, both of which are out of the normal realm of first prescribed APs, and both of which have serious side effects associated with them. What was his doctors thinking on this? Has he tried all of the other ones with no results?

Plus he is on one mood stab. in my opinion I would want it the other way around - 1 AP and 2 mood stabs - that is always what our psychiatrists recommended. And the Topomax, has he tried any other mood stabs, because for some Topomax can cause a lot of cognitive dulling.

Topomax coupled with the 2 APs he is on that also both produce cognitive dulling could be really creating a problem with his proactive thinking skills, impulse control, etc.

 

[Wiped Out]

I am so sorry. I really wish I understood the psychology of these kids better. I never could grasp why Matt did this ALL the time except it was his vie for power and dominance. But I also never could figure out if there was a chemical component to it.

I don't understand this part either-sigh.

Guess I need to update signature. He is no longer on the Topamax-hasn't been since June when they put him on Gabapentin. As for the older APs, he trialed everything else (even developed TD from Abilify) with no results. For a long time he was only on the Loxapine as an AP but then 2 years ago when he was hospitalized 3 times in 3 months they decided to trial the Clozaril. It's the only AP that has helped with his violence (it's way better compared to where it use to be).

His medications were last looked at in the middle of this month when we increased the Clozaril. He has another appointment in January but not until the end so not sure I want to wait that long.

 

[buddy]

You could put Q's name in that post exactly. Even the making noise so he can't hear my words. Walks by and bumps into me when passing, elbows, etc. He did start a tripping thing too, that came from school. Kids were tripping each other in lunch and in classes and laughing.... horse play. but it happened to Q several times and then he of course goes overboard, does it to anyone and everyone and no boundaries between adults and kids. UGG. He has not done that for over a year thank heaven. Seems replaced by spitting, uggg. But the more subtle bumps and jabs...yeah, that is my daily life.

 

[Steely]

Gotcha Wiped - I figured there had to be some good reasoning in there. I still might push for perhaps taking him off the Loxapine and doing a second mood stab..........but that is just my 2 cents

 

[Wiped Out]

Buddy-Yep that is difficult child including the spitting. He did that on the ride home in the car and when I called him on it he got really angry. Hate the spitting!

Steely-I will talk to him about the mood stabilizer (it will be interesting because he has tried most-many in combos so I'm not sure there is much more to try). I have actually been wondering if he needs more of a mood stabilizer as well.

 

[susiestar]

This is a male dominance thing. He is wanting to be dominant to you. Wiz would come straight at me but he didn't do the tripping, bumping, etc... more than a few times because the one day he did it bad I woke him in the middle of the night with a frying pan 2 inches from his head. We had already done the therapy and medication adjustments for months and nothing stopped and we had spent the ENTIRE day doing what he wanted, buying what he wanted, and he still did that bumping, elbowing, tripping **** and I.Was.Done. I spoke to my dad, who is aspie but also dealt with teen boys for almost 4 decades in the roughest schools 2 states had to offer. He told me to do what my mother would do and wake the boy up with either a rolling pin or a frying pan close to his head and let him see, very very clearly, that if he EVER pulled that koi again he would regret in an incredibly painful way.

It worked for about 2 yrs. Then he started "just" headbutting me into things. the "just" comes from husband, who did not understand why having my 14yo son headbutt me so bad I had bruises front and back for weeks was a "big deal" enough to call the cops on him and refuse to live wiht him.

YOU have to make a show of strength. So does husband. You must be UNITED. I know what I did sounds barbaric. I know many will NOT agree iwth it. I did not hit wiz, I showed that I COULD hit him if he took his koi any further. His medications were stable or as stable as they could be given he said very little to his docs.

If you cannot get this stopped it is going to get really, really, REALLY dangerous for you before too much longer. Esp given his past violence. Stop the World has to be applied to this stuff.

 

[Wiped Out]

Susie-Really good point about Stop the World should be applying to this stuff! You are absolutely right and I will be starting that tomorrow. I'm not sure the frying pan would work with my difficult child-he is just so impulsive.

 

[Steely]

What is Stop the World?

I am going to disagree a bit on the frying pan, as I think we should never meet violence with violence, because in my opinion it only breeds more violence. However, your point is excellent Susie. I did something similar and it worked just as well. He would get out of control mad with me, and threaten that he was going to hit me. It was almost always in the car, because I think he felt he had more control there. I would pull over the car, stop it, and get dead in his face - and say "bring it on buddy". "I am not scared of you." And then I would just stay deadlocked eye to eye with him until he turned away.

In retrospect it reminds me of what 2 dogs do when vying for dominance. They will stare each other down until, the submissive one turns the other way. Usually the submissive dog will yawn as if to say, yes, you are the Alpha, OK.

I can't tell you how well that worked. He was taller and stronger than me - but I was not scared of him. Deep inside I really was not - and by me stating that to him, and literally going head to head with him - he mentally reverted back to being isubmissive and would stop the threatening. I also think me getting dead in his face and telling him to "bring it on" snapped him back to the reality of the situation. Suddenly he was being called on his own cr@p -- and he really didn't want to hit me --- he just wanted to feel that power over me.

 

[AnnieO]

Onyxx used to do this to Jett. Never us - because she really did NOT want us to call the cops, and she would never do it to Jett when we were around.

However... Once Jett started tattling about it, we stopped leaving him alone with her, and he was told if she cornered him to scream. He never did - she ran - and the rest is history.

 

[susiestar]

While I agree wth the nonviolence as teh best way to raise a child, it made NO difference to Wiz. He saw the nonviolence as me being submissive to him. There is NO WAY that I would be alive today if I hadn't given some show of force at specific times. Every therapist/psychiatrist/doctor/counselor first said go nonviolent all the time then said "OH MY GOD HE WILL KILL YOU IF YOU DON"T SHOW YOU ARE NOT AFRAID AND ARE STRONGER". Every. Single. One. A couple he actually wrestled to the floor during therapy sessions. They eventually all realized that some people just do not recognize nonviolence and will just hurt you unless you show you are stronger.

sadly, I think that is what Wiped Out is dealing with. She can be as nonviolent as she wants, but unless she forces him to STOP each and every time he does something that is leaning toward violence then she is goign to end up badly hurt. It is what it is. I wish it could be what we want it to be, but with some people it just isn't.

not only would I be dead if I didn't show Wiz I would NEVER bow down to him, my daughter would also be dead today. None of us have any doubts about this, not even Wiz. If I had allowed that, I wouldn't deserve to be a parent to any of them and Wiz would have killed himself once he calmed down and saw what he had done. You may not agree, but you were not here.

 

[buddy]

That does not work with Q at all. He goes immediately into fight/flight and it used to be flight sometimes, now it is fight if he is afraid of a serious consequence or aggression. (his definition of serious that is, like missing the bus, wrecking his routine etc.)

I have to say I am really proud of him this week. though he has had his push shove moments, and a couple of times when he has become stuck in his words, NO aggression. AND every single time when he is over it, he comes and hugs me appropriately. Just says sorry NOT even asking to start over. Really I have to wonder about being off that Prozac as the final little edge. He is on Concerta today comparing the ritalin. He does seem to not swear as much on the Ritalin. WIsh he would take them reliably at school. OH well, I can make MY life easier using it, lol

 

[Steely]

Susie sweetie - sorry. I know I wasn't there - for sure.
And I know that each situation is different, so I wasn't judging you - at all!

I just also know Matt was also very violent - and when I bowed up and told him I wasn't scared he backed down. When Matt was older of course I had to call the police, because his behavior just continued to escalate and like you, no matter what I said or did, he would not settle down. And like you, I also had to have him removed from the home at 17 to live elsewhere.

But Wiped Out will know best where her son is in all of this, and what is best for him. All we have here are ideas.

 

[Wiped Out]

Steely-Stop the World for our difficult child means everything stops for the remainder of the day that he is violent. No tv, no videos, no electronics of any kind, no games or playing with us, no reading to him at night before he goes to sleep. This absolutely drives him crazy, the sad thing is it also means he drives us crazy too. He really isn't the independent sort so he doesn't/can't leave us alone. He doesn't often get it anymore as we've always used it for more direct violence then the bumping but I should have used it yesterday with the tripping and probably should use it with the "accidental" stuff as well.

Step-difficult child would never do it to easy child/difficult child because she is a black belt and he knows she would hurt him. He knows I will keep myself safe but that I won't try to hurt him, however, in defending myself there have been times where I have had to use force, still it is a different situation than with easy child/difficult child.

Susie-You may be right with what I'm dealing with. I know you are right that we have to force him to stop each and every time in a way that makes a difference (even if that means punishing ourselves through stop the world).

Buddy-My difficult child rarely uses flight (if every) it is always fight if there is a choice. I'm glad to hear Q is having a good week.

Steely-I really feel there may come that time when I have to call the police. Right now with the "bumping" and "shoving" I don't. I do know if he ever goes back to the kind of violence he used to use I will call. Sometimes I wish I had done it (call the police) when he was younger but in the long run I'm not sure it would have helped. He was so unstable at those times. Still is to an extent but in a different way. Now he is so big that I would have to call the police even if he was unstable like before because he would hurt me whether he meant to or not.

My fear is now that I could get hurt with- all of the "accidental" stuff and yet I can't really call the police and say he is bumping into me or shoving in front of me.

Today, at least, has been a somewhat better day (sad thing is it's because difficult child is not feeling well-I think it may the new medication we are using to help with his appetite but I'm not sure). No shoving and bumping today or tripping just lots of super annoying difficult child behavior.

 

[buddy]

WipedOut, do you ever feel grateful for times when he is sick? I am a little ashamed to say this, but my best days with Q have been when he is really really sick. He lets me care for him and is soo sweet. Just not himself at all (sorry, but true). I would never wish him ill of course and he has been sick in his life maybe less than five times. THe last was vaccinations at age 10 and he is nearly 15. (he was out with a high fever... I mean sleeping out of it.... and I could get cloths and hold him etc. it was so "normal").

 

[Wiped Out]

Buddy-Yes, I do feel grateful to an extent. Like Q, my difficult child is so "normal" when sick. Also like you, I would never wish him sick. I have to say that the only thing that ever seems to slow him down is when he has a fever which is next to never.

 

[crazymama30]

I agree with suzie here, my difficult child (thankfully he is small) has tried to run at me and push me. I am not a small person, and I just braced myself and he bounced backwards and fell over. He also knows that I can and will pick him up and throw him over my shoulder if necessary. Some people feed on fear, kids included.