Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
General Discussions
The Watercooler
divided family/holidays
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 673417" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>That happened to me, too. </p><p></p><p>There is a fine line between feeling responsible to and for one another (which is a source of honor and identity and gratitude and strength), and blaming ourselves for someone's failure to honor us. That is the place where those of us living with situations edging toward abusive destroy ourselves with our thinking, maybe. Blaming ourselves for someone else's failure to honor us <em>or themselves</em>.</p><p></p><p>They do know better, just like we do. </p><p></p><p>We can't make sense of it, and so we compromise, believing we must have misinterpreted.</p><p></p><p>Someone who is blaming, instead of loving, comes up with many plausible reasons for it, muddying the waters and sending everyone off in a thousand directions. The truth is that if they were behaving toward us (and themselves) kindly and honorably, our situations would be very different. If we are going to retain our own strength of character (instead of falling into that weakened, people-pleasing place where bad and then, worse behaviors are excused), we will have to tell the truth, at least to ourselves, about someone we love having dishonored themselves and then, made it worse by dishonoring us. And then, by dishonoring someone else to us (and, behind our backs, to everyone else) to establish divisive alliances. </p><p></p><p>Yuck.</p><p></p><p>This is an important piece for us to understand. It is difficult to remain healthy and strong, or even, upright at all, when our own people blame and desert and seek to fracture our families or friendships.</p><p></p><p>We cannot set things right when that is not the goal the other had in mind. </p><p></p><p>Thus, the perp can continue, unabated. (That is an outlook taken from that old television series, Dragnet. And though it is funny in its way to reference Dragnet and Captain Joe Friday here, it is a worthwhile thing to understand there really is a right way, and there is a wrong way, and to say so. If we do say so, we will be shunned, either in place, through speech patterns and ridicule and disrespectful little snips taken at the table while they eat our food we have prepared for them, or blatantly, through exclusion.)</p><p></p><p>And we will believe them, and not ourselves, because there are more of them.</p><p></p><p>And we lose that sense of family that matters very much to us to undercurrents and alliances formed through triangulation. And if we just keep trying to do the right thing, it keeps not bringing our families back together because the lie at the heart of it is not being addressed.</p><p></p><p>And becomes the elephant in the room, instead.</p><p></p><p>We begin to question our judging and rigidity and whether we are the problem. We lose our strong centers and compromise and compromise because we are so sure they want the same things we do.</p><p></p><p>But they don't.</p><p></p><p>Especially, this dynamic happens in our families when there is addiction and we are trying to save the addicted one. No compromise is too great when we are trying to save our children. Strange and terrible things, things we could never have foreseen, happen to us, and to those we love. </p><p></p><p>It's almost like the addiction (or the illness) becomes an invisible family member.</p><p></p><p>I think we do not like to admit this about people we love. (Or, about ourselves, when we are the ones performing below standard.) I think that is what drives us to excuse behaviors we may not have otherwise excused after the fourth or fifth time. This is where enabling begins, maybe. We excuse our people (or ourselves) in little ways and it grows, changing what were once sources of strength and well-being into something ugly. Suddenly, we are no longer able to take strength from our families. We begin drinking too much, or eating too much chocolate or whatever, to comfort ourselves because we are lonely for our children or our families of origin or our lives that we believed we had. And everything just gets worse. So, the answer has to be to become as healthy and kind as we can, ourselves.</p><p></p><p>Beginning and, sometimes, ending with ourselves too since, believe it or not, nobody listens to me.</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p>True.</p><p></p><p>I don't think there is another answer.</p><p></p><p>But I do know it is a really hard thing, to be shunned. I know there are degrees of shunning, and that shunning begins with accepting dishonorable behavior in ourselves or in someone else, for the sake of the relationship.</p><p></p><p>So sometimes, we lose, either way.</p><p></p><p>But if we stand up, at least we have ourselves.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 673417, member: 17461"] That happened to me, too. There is a fine line between feeling responsible to and for one another (which is a source of honor and identity and gratitude and strength), and blaming ourselves for someone's failure to honor us. That is the place where those of us living with situations edging toward abusive destroy ourselves with our thinking, maybe. Blaming ourselves for someone else's failure to honor us [I]or themselves[/I]. They do know better, just like we do. We can't make sense of it, and so we compromise, believing we must have misinterpreted. Someone who is blaming, instead of loving, comes up with many plausible reasons for it, muddying the waters and sending everyone off in a thousand directions. The truth is that if they were behaving toward us (and themselves) kindly and honorably, our situations would be very different. If we are going to retain our own strength of character (instead of falling into that weakened, people-pleasing place where bad and then, worse behaviors are excused), we will have to tell the truth, at least to ourselves, about someone we love having dishonored themselves and then, made it worse by dishonoring us. And then, by dishonoring someone else to us (and, behind our backs, to everyone else) to establish divisive alliances. Yuck. This is an important piece for us to understand. It is difficult to remain healthy and strong, or even, upright at all, when our own people blame and desert and seek to fracture our families or friendships. We cannot set things right when that is not the goal the other had in mind. Thus, the perp can continue, unabated. (That is an outlook taken from that old television series, Dragnet. And though it is funny in its way to reference Dragnet and Captain Joe Friday here, it is a worthwhile thing to understand there really is a right way, and there is a wrong way, and to say so. If we do say so, we will be shunned, either in place, through speech patterns and ridicule and disrespectful little snips taken at the table while they eat our food we have prepared for them, or blatantly, through exclusion.) And we will believe them, and not ourselves, because there are more of them. And we lose that sense of family that matters very much to us to undercurrents and alliances formed through triangulation. And if we just keep trying to do the right thing, it keeps not bringing our families back together because the lie at the heart of it is not being addressed. And becomes the elephant in the room, instead. We begin to question our judging and rigidity and whether we are the problem. We lose our strong centers and compromise and compromise because we are so sure they want the same things we do. But they don't. Especially, this dynamic happens in our families when there is addiction and we are trying to save the addicted one. No compromise is too great when we are trying to save our children. Strange and terrible things, things we could never have foreseen, happen to us, and to those we love. It's almost like the addiction (or the illness) becomes an invisible family member. I think we do not like to admit this about people we love. (Or, about ourselves, when we are the ones performing below standard.) I think that is what drives us to excuse behaviors we may not have otherwise excused after the fourth or fifth time. This is where enabling begins, maybe. We excuse our people (or ourselves) in little ways and it grows, changing what were once sources of strength and well-being into something ugly. Suddenly, we are no longer able to take strength from our families. We begin drinking too much, or eating too much chocolate or whatever, to comfort ourselves because we are lonely for our children or our families of origin or our lives that we believed we had. And everything just gets worse. So, the answer has to be to become as healthy and kind as we can, ourselves. Beginning and, sometimes, ending with ourselves too since, believe it or not, nobody listens to me. :O) True. I don't think there is another answer. But I do know it is a really hard thing, to be shunned. I know there are degrees of shunning, and that shunning begins with accepting dishonorable behavior in ourselves or in someone else, for the sake of the relationship. So sometimes, we lose, either way. But if we stand up, at least we have ourselves. Cedar [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
General Discussions
The Watercooler
divided family/holidays
Top