BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Canada is different. That's one reason I'd like to live there. There was nothing resembling segregation there. It's a different country.
Do I just know the wrong people or have things changed this much?
- Thread starter muttmeister
- Start date
Canada is different. That's one reason I'd like to live there. There was nothing resembling segregation there. It's a different country.
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
IC, we have a long history of treating our minorities like second class citizens or non-citizens and many, many people agreed that skin color or even religion...not being Christian...made one a bad or inferior person. We are trying to get over this. I was hoping that Obama's election would be a landmark over our history, but it has only brought out more bigots who are loud and proud and I am ashamed of every one of them. We are also behind Canada in acceptance of gay Americans and there are many people who live here who still insist that it's a Christian nation and feel that nobody else belongs (shrug). Be glad that is NOT Canada.
I have an online friend who has dual citizenship...Canada/US. She lives here but sort of wants to go back "home" (Canada). She says the hatred, racism and prejudice against particular religions is wearing her out. Now she is just one person, but it's different here in degree and intensity. Canadians would not even listen to our vocal talk show hosts who say they aren't bigoted, but who clearly are.
At any rate, be glad you never had to watch white parents throwing rocks at buses with black children on them just because they were going to be included in a "white" school. It shocked me and stuck with me for life, although I was only ten when I watched it. These were NOT the good old days. I'm glad they are done.
I have an online friend who has dual citizenship...Canada/US. She lives here but sort of wants to go back "home" (Canada). She says the hatred, racism and prejudice against particular religions is wearing her out. Now she is just one person, but it's different here in degree and intensity. Canadians would not even listen to our vocal talk show hosts who say they aren't bigoted, but who clearly are.
At any rate, be glad you never had to watch white parents throwing rocks at buses with black children on them just because they were going to be included in a "white" school. It shocked me and stuck with me for life, although I was only ten when I watched it. These were NOT the good old days. I'm glad they are done.
muttmeister
Well-Known Member
I don't think, in a lot of ways, the world, or even this country was better back then and I wouldn't really like to go back and live in that era. There were some good things but, as a lot of you have pointed out, there were lots of bad things too. We still have a lot of problems but we have made improvements in many areas. Of course there are new problems now that we didn't have to deal with then but that is the way the world works. Change happens and if it didn't we'd be in worse trouble than we are.
There were rotten people then, just like there are rotten people now. It's just that it seems like the few people I knew who were honest and hard working and who tried to do the right thing back then are fewer and farther between now than they were then. I'm not sure why that should be so. I think a lot of you have made good points about more stress and different times but I know there are good people out there now but it does seem different. Too many of the "good" people I know now are not people I like. They seem to be condescending or holier-than-thou and the goodness doesn't seem as sincere. Maybe it's just a sign I'm getting old.
There were rotten people then, just like there are rotten people now. It's just that it seems like the few people I knew who were honest and hard working and who tried to do the right thing back then are fewer and farther between now than they were then. I'm not sure why that should be so. I think a lot of you have made good points about more stress and different times but I know there are good people out there now but it does seem different. Too many of the "good" people I know now are not people I like. They seem to be condescending or holier-than-thou and the goodness doesn't seem as sincere. Maybe it's just a sign I'm getting old.
Hound dog
Nana's are Beautiful
While I don't want to start a discussion on racism yadda yadda..........
I do not see where that has changed from years ago. I experience as much now as I did in my younger years. Only difference is........in my younger years I knew where someone stood on the matter up front, no games. Now? Due to Political Correctness I put up with more load a bull than I ever did as a youngster. Most by people who go around spouting how non racist they are. Those that have a tendency to be racist are going to be that way regardless of laws, political correctness, whatever. It is born out of ignorance. Laws don't make that ignorance disappear. Same with mental illness.
I grew up in an extremely racist area. While it wasn't a picnic to be black, it was worse to be American Indian. (you were the target of everyone) Even so, they were only a few, while most people were good and decent regardless of your race. My paternal grandfather walked on as one of the most respected men in the area. He was poor. He was Indian. Didn't matter.
My maternal grandmother broke every society rule I think pretty much was out there short of murder. She raised her children during the Great Depression. Married to a alcoholic schizo who liked to use her as a punching bag......she left him.......with the help of a stranger, the junk yard man, who offered a place to stay for her and her 7 young children. (a shack on his property with a shot gun to protect her from her sadistic mentally ill husband) Most of the time she worked 3 jobs. Often they were homeless. Often they were hungry. It seems every single time they were in severe need someone always stepped up to the plate and found a way to help the family out. Usually strangers, sometimes friends. My maternal grandmother also passed away as one one of the most respected people in the area.
Racism will likely never go away. And the stigma linked to mental illness is due to fear and will also likely never go away. Regardless of laws and political correctness and the effort to educate people.
But over all when I think back most folks didn't care. If you were a good person, trying hard and doing your best, that was all that truly mattered.
So when I look back at the "good ole days" that is not what I look at. I look at the overall attitude of the time frame. The Great Depression was horrid to live through unless you were upper middle class or higher. I remember the stories and I can relate to much of the stress ect as I have gone through much of it since Fred passed. WWII was horrid but there were lessons learned that were never forgotten as everyone pulled together toward the same goal regardless of your race or background.
Yes, there was abuse going on back in the day. I don't buy into the bull that it was "hidden" because in my experiences it certainly was not hidden, regardless of the type of abuse. My grandma while she broke the taboo to leave her abusive husband.......gained the respect of her community because she had the courage to do so......and her community did what they could to help her. The same for my aunt once she reached that point, although it took more to get her there. Child abuse, I'm sorry, has not changed since that time. I see zero changes in this area. I was abused........and adults knew it, including teachers. No one stepped up, just like today (and if you're honest with yourself, 90 percent of the time people still do not step up) except my grandma who found a way to keep me out of the home as much as possible. Talked about ?? Oh, please! Anyone naive enough to believe these things were never talked about back in the day need to go take a class in human nature or something. lol
It was a simpler time when people's focus was not on the latest electronic device or what new toy they were going to buy to keep themselves entertained. People weren't focused on work and how much money they could bring in so they could have some big fancy smancy something or other. No one said it was easy to live back then. People's focus were on their families and communities for the most part. When that is where the focus is.........it is difficult to stare at someone one in need and not reach out to do something about it.
People who struggled during that time, and during eras prior to that time that were also very difficult, they learned valuable lessons that carried on throughout their lifetimes. Lessons that made them into the "good" people they were. Struggle and doing without gives us empathy for those in the same situation or worse because we can relate on some level of what they are going through. Without that empathy someone else's suffering is not going to make an impression on you.
True with Katie and M I've have to be careful.........but they are my children and I still am teaching them life lessons. But I give pretty freely. I don't worry about being taken advantage of. I don't think I ever have been, most especially by a non family member. I don't have much and I never have. But if I see someone in need and I can spare it, I give it without any expectation attached. I've done without too often in my life, I know what it feels like, if I can make someone elses life a bit easier by a small random act of kindness then it makes me happy to do so. It doesn't matter if that person is family or a complete stranger I happen upon on the street. I'm not doing it to win a popularity contest, or because I think my church/religion would approve, and it would never occur to me to look at the person's skin complexion or asses their mental status.
There have been endless times when I've been criticized for such a giving nature, even by Fred and my own children. Fred was a good man.......but he was a good man who grew up and never did without a basic need in his life. I've given when I have it to give, and due to circumstances, I've given when I honestly did not have it to give. I've never suffered for my giving.....it always works out in the end, even if I give someone my last dollar.
I'll give an example, not to brag about my "giving" but well.......to show the effect it can have I guess. Last year, (and every year) I had basically no money. I bought school supplies on sale, some with coupons, some without. I have no children in school. Katie had her kids covered last year. But every year since Nichole was 7 and I knew there was a need I buy school supplies for the kids on the reservation. So when it came time to deliver the school supplies I asked easy child to drive me because drop off was in a place in dayton that I only know how to get to via interstate and I refuse to drive interstates. I had been shopping the sales for months. Little here, little there......it adds up quickly. I had box after box of school supplies for all age groups. When it came time to load up her car....easy child's eyes got big and her mouth hung open. (truly, I didn't pay much for them thanks to the ads, sales, and coupons but it was a vast amount) She asked me if I was really going to give all of what I bought away. I said well of course, that is what I bought it for. I just looked at her. Geez, I've done this for nearly 20 frimping years. lol True, now that I don't have my own kids to buy for and I shop better after learning the coupons ect it was a lot more than usual, but c'mon.......she knows this is a yearly thing.
So, before we headed out........she picked up a box or two of her extra supplies and added them to mine. I didn't say a word. (I knew she hadn't planned on it, she'd intended to dole it out to the kids as they needed them) We make the trip to Dayton and drop them off to her Uncle Guy. Then I worry. I know they need gas to get the supplies to the reservation. Donating supplies is one thing and it isn't hard to do and tends to be where people who do give focus. There is never enough money for the gas to get it there. I knew the benefit functions had not gone as well as planned last year. So I handed Guy a 100 dollar bill for gas before I left. easy child nearly stroked. No joke. And I gave her a Momma look. I said it does no good for us to put forth the effort to collect the supplies those kids need and we can't get it to them, now does it? She shut up.
In honesty? No I didn't have that 100 bucks to spare. I was / am squeezing every penny in hopes it reproduces. But you know what?? The world didn't come to an abrupt halt because I gave him that money. I still made my house payment. I still ate. I paid my bills. Life went on. I've found it seems to work out that way. I just don't worry about it.
My point is.........easy child gave because I did. It made her re-evaluate her actions and her focus. Once she understood about the gas money she was kicking herself for not bringing cash along to donate for that as well. I've also noticed easy child makes an extra effort to donate to the school supply drive here as well now. And Darrin (who came along) thought it was so cool he was "helping" other kids have what they needed for school. His contribution was carrying those heavy boxes in for his Nana. LOL
I notice in society that since the main focus of people's lives have shifted to more self centered and selfish things, parents are neglecting to reinforce a child's natural inclination to give and teach them to do so openly, freely not just with family but with others around them. THAT is the main difference between the good ole days and now. in my opinion And it is a major difference.
I do not see where that has changed from years ago. I experience as much now as I did in my younger years. Only difference is........in my younger years I knew where someone stood on the matter up front, no games. Now? Due to Political Correctness I put up with more load a bull than I ever did as a youngster. Most by people who go around spouting how non racist they are. Those that have a tendency to be racist are going to be that way regardless of laws, political correctness, whatever. It is born out of ignorance. Laws don't make that ignorance disappear. Same with mental illness.
I grew up in an extremely racist area. While it wasn't a picnic to be black, it was worse to be American Indian. (you were the target of everyone) Even so, they were only a few, while most people were good and decent regardless of your race. My paternal grandfather walked on as one of the most respected men in the area. He was poor. He was Indian. Didn't matter.
My maternal grandmother broke every society rule I think pretty much was out there short of murder. She raised her children during the Great Depression. Married to a alcoholic schizo who liked to use her as a punching bag......she left him.......with the help of a stranger, the junk yard man, who offered a place to stay for her and her 7 young children. (a shack on his property with a shot gun to protect her from her sadistic mentally ill husband) Most of the time she worked 3 jobs. Often they were homeless. Often they were hungry. It seems every single time they were in severe need someone always stepped up to the plate and found a way to help the family out. Usually strangers, sometimes friends. My maternal grandmother also passed away as one one of the most respected people in the area.
Racism will likely never go away. And the stigma linked to mental illness is due to fear and will also likely never go away. Regardless of laws and political correctness and the effort to educate people.
But over all when I think back most folks didn't care. If you were a good person, trying hard and doing your best, that was all that truly mattered.
So when I look back at the "good ole days" that is not what I look at. I look at the overall attitude of the time frame. The Great Depression was horrid to live through unless you were upper middle class or higher. I remember the stories and I can relate to much of the stress ect as I have gone through much of it since Fred passed. WWII was horrid but there were lessons learned that were never forgotten as everyone pulled together toward the same goal regardless of your race or background.
Yes, there was abuse going on back in the day. I don't buy into the bull that it was "hidden" because in my experiences it certainly was not hidden, regardless of the type of abuse. My grandma while she broke the taboo to leave her abusive husband.......gained the respect of her community because she had the courage to do so......and her community did what they could to help her. The same for my aunt once she reached that point, although it took more to get her there. Child abuse, I'm sorry, has not changed since that time. I see zero changes in this area. I was abused........and adults knew it, including teachers. No one stepped up, just like today (and if you're honest with yourself, 90 percent of the time people still do not step up) except my grandma who found a way to keep me out of the home as much as possible. Talked about ?? Oh, please! Anyone naive enough to believe these things were never talked about back in the day need to go take a class in human nature or something. lol
It was a simpler time when people's focus was not on the latest electronic device or what new toy they were going to buy to keep themselves entertained. People weren't focused on work and how much money they could bring in so they could have some big fancy smancy something or other. No one said it was easy to live back then. People's focus were on their families and communities for the most part. When that is where the focus is.........it is difficult to stare at someone one in need and not reach out to do something about it.
People who struggled during that time, and during eras prior to that time that were also very difficult, they learned valuable lessons that carried on throughout their lifetimes. Lessons that made them into the "good" people they were. Struggle and doing without gives us empathy for those in the same situation or worse because we can relate on some level of what they are going through. Without that empathy someone else's suffering is not going to make an impression on you.
True with Katie and M I've have to be careful.........but they are my children and I still am teaching them life lessons. But I give pretty freely. I don't worry about being taken advantage of. I don't think I ever have been, most especially by a non family member. I don't have much and I never have. But if I see someone in need and I can spare it, I give it without any expectation attached. I've done without too often in my life, I know what it feels like, if I can make someone elses life a bit easier by a small random act of kindness then it makes me happy to do so. It doesn't matter if that person is family or a complete stranger I happen upon on the street. I'm not doing it to win a popularity contest, or because I think my church/religion would approve, and it would never occur to me to look at the person's skin complexion or asses their mental status.
There have been endless times when I've been criticized for such a giving nature, even by Fred and my own children. Fred was a good man.......but he was a good man who grew up and never did without a basic need in his life. I've given when I have it to give, and due to circumstances, I've given when I honestly did not have it to give. I've never suffered for my giving.....it always works out in the end, even if I give someone my last dollar.
I'll give an example, not to brag about my "giving" but well.......to show the effect it can have I guess. Last year, (and every year) I had basically no money. I bought school supplies on sale, some with coupons, some without. I have no children in school. Katie had her kids covered last year. But every year since Nichole was 7 and I knew there was a need I buy school supplies for the kids on the reservation. So when it came time to deliver the school supplies I asked easy child to drive me because drop off was in a place in dayton that I only know how to get to via interstate and I refuse to drive interstates. I had been shopping the sales for months. Little here, little there......it adds up quickly. I had box after box of school supplies for all age groups. When it came time to load up her car....easy child's eyes got big and her mouth hung open. (truly, I didn't pay much for them thanks to the ads, sales, and coupons but it was a vast amount) She asked me if I was really going to give all of what I bought away. I said well of course, that is what I bought it for. I just looked at her. Geez, I've done this for nearly 20 frimping years. lol True, now that I don't have my own kids to buy for and I shop better after learning the coupons ect it was a lot more than usual, but c'mon.......she knows this is a yearly thing.
So, before we headed out........she picked up a box or two of her extra supplies and added them to mine. I didn't say a word. (I knew she hadn't planned on it, she'd intended to dole it out to the kids as they needed them) We make the trip to Dayton and drop them off to her Uncle Guy. Then I worry. I know they need gas to get the supplies to the reservation. Donating supplies is one thing and it isn't hard to do and tends to be where people who do give focus. There is never enough money for the gas to get it there. I knew the benefit functions had not gone as well as planned last year. So I handed Guy a 100 dollar bill for gas before I left. easy child nearly stroked. No joke. And I gave her a Momma look. I said it does no good for us to put forth the effort to collect the supplies those kids need and we can't get it to them, now does it? She shut up.
In honesty? No I didn't have that 100 bucks to spare. I was / am squeezing every penny in hopes it reproduces. But you know what?? The world didn't come to an abrupt halt because I gave him that money. I still made my house payment. I still ate. I paid my bills. Life went on. I've found it seems to work out that way. I just don't worry about it.
My point is.........easy child gave because I did. It made her re-evaluate her actions and her focus. Once she understood about the gas money she was kicking herself for not bringing cash along to donate for that as well. I've also noticed easy child makes an extra effort to donate to the school supply drive here as well now. And Darrin (who came along) thought it was so cool he was "helping" other kids have what they needed for school. His contribution was carrying those heavy boxes in for his Nana. LOL
I notice in society that since the main focus of people's lives have shifted to more self centered and selfish things, parents are neglecting to reinforce a child's natural inclination to give and teach them to do so openly, freely not just with family but with others around them. THAT is the main difference between the good ole days and now. in my opinion And it is a major difference.
I do see differences now. Some good, some not so much. As a kid my dad taught in the 'ghetto' schools of inner Cinci. He was a shop teacher then so his students were what would now be called 'gang bangers' back before today's gang kids even were a twinkle in their parents' middle school minds. He took guns away THEN, which is scary enough. My mother volunteered at a Girl's Club in downtown Cinci's worst area, and took gfgbro and I with her. My cousin sometimes too. I used to ask people for change to get chicken at the restaurant by the farmers market. I was 4-6yo, and got enough from the winos to get chicken for myself, bro and often my cousin too if he was there. On days when I had allowance, I would offer some of it to those people, the 'winos', and I never ever felt unsafe. Our neighbors were flat terrified to even drive through that neighborhood but NO ONE ever even attempted to mess with me or gfgbro or my cousin. My mom never treated any of her sewing students like they were less worthy, not even the transexual guy in the class a few times and that was something she did not even have an inkling of before then, but he was just another of the girls with a figure challenge to adjust a pattern for. The community knew it, and we were NEVER unsafe.
Years later, after my first neck surgery, I had to take the bus to work because I was not able to drive. One day some obvious gang members started to harrass me and an enormous black man gave them the stink eye and kept them away. He rode all the way to my stop, then told me not to worry, that they would leave me alone and to tell my husband hi for him. He meant my daddy, and when I said that the person he mentioned by name was my dad, he was amazed and remembered me from when I was very little. He dated a girl who babysat for us sometimes. I had been hassled before, but never was again even in the worst areas. I had more than a few people at various times call me by my maiden name and think I was my mom. (We DO look like clones to many people, as does Jess and one cousin I haven't met who is older than I am by the aunt who died before I was born). Every time they had a good memory of my dad to share, and said he was the only teacher who believed they could be someone good, could learn, would allow their kids to be around the 'bad kids' that they taught, and did not treat them like they would attack my mom or us kids at any moment.
When I worked in the middle of downtown Cincy, I walked through some rough areas to my car. husband's company had an office where I could park for free but it was almost a mile away. I would share a sandwich or leftovers with some of the homeless that I saw, and one day a man came up to take my purse from me by force. He didnt' see the Vietnam Vet who lived on the corner, this thief had shoes worth at least $200, an expensive coat and jewelry, and he wanted my little bit of money or whatever. I didn't even have jewelry on except my wedding ring and he tried to get that. That Vet who was homeless ran him off after taking my purse from him, and even offered to go call the police to come if I was afraid of him (of the Vet, the Vet OFFERED this to me), all of it shocked me. Esp the man who helped me offering to help me call the cops on himself. This man helped me NOT because I gave him food or whatever, but because he saw me give food to others living on the streets. It cost me nothing. What he told me was that he had noticed that I didn't treat the homeless as furniture or sidewalk, but as humans, bothering to make eye contact, tell them to have a nice day, and to give them a bit of humanity that no one else working on my street seemed to. It was interesting to me because it never occurred to me to do anything differently to those less able to care for themselves. Not even with our tight budget.
I think too many people are caught up in "me" and forget about "my world". I think the one word many describe me with is frugal, but in my opinion it is a lovely word. NOT because I stretch a dime, or because I save money or make my own whatever. To me the essence of frugality is sharing what you have or can share so that everyone benefits. If that is knowledge, or a book, or a ride or food or items or a hug, to me that is valuable and wonderful. So many of our kids are taught to earn to buy or have what they want. I have found it fun to teach mind to share, make do, and see what they can work together and with others to earn or have or create. It is 'frugal', character building, and to them? FUN!
Many people don't see others as people. Very few people my age that I have known now or growing up, ever saw their grandparents as people. I spent real TIME with my grands, esp my gmas. Weeks at a time where I went along on what they did, not when they only did what I wanted. Few people learn to see anyone not in their 'circle' as actual human beings. It scares me and in my opinion is why we have so much violence,at least as a major causative factor. If we felt more that everyone was a person just like us, we would be a vastly happier society and likely species.
Years later, after my first neck surgery, I had to take the bus to work because I was not able to drive. One day some obvious gang members started to harrass me and an enormous black man gave them the stink eye and kept them away. He rode all the way to my stop, then told me not to worry, that they would leave me alone and to tell my husband hi for him. He meant my daddy, and when I said that the person he mentioned by name was my dad, he was amazed and remembered me from when I was very little. He dated a girl who babysat for us sometimes. I had been hassled before, but never was again even in the worst areas. I had more than a few people at various times call me by my maiden name and think I was my mom. (We DO look like clones to many people, as does Jess and one cousin I haven't met who is older than I am by the aunt who died before I was born). Every time they had a good memory of my dad to share, and said he was the only teacher who believed they could be someone good, could learn, would allow their kids to be around the 'bad kids' that they taught, and did not treat them like they would attack my mom or us kids at any moment.
When I worked in the middle of downtown Cincy, I walked through some rough areas to my car. husband's company had an office where I could park for free but it was almost a mile away. I would share a sandwich or leftovers with some of the homeless that I saw, and one day a man came up to take my purse from me by force. He didnt' see the Vietnam Vet who lived on the corner, this thief had shoes worth at least $200, an expensive coat and jewelry, and he wanted my little bit of money or whatever. I didn't even have jewelry on except my wedding ring and he tried to get that. That Vet who was homeless ran him off after taking my purse from him, and even offered to go call the police to come if I was afraid of him (of the Vet, the Vet OFFERED this to me), all of it shocked me. Esp the man who helped me offering to help me call the cops on himself. This man helped me NOT because I gave him food or whatever, but because he saw me give food to others living on the streets. It cost me nothing. What he told me was that he had noticed that I didn't treat the homeless as furniture or sidewalk, but as humans, bothering to make eye contact, tell them to have a nice day, and to give them a bit of humanity that no one else working on my street seemed to. It was interesting to me because it never occurred to me to do anything differently to those less able to care for themselves. Not even with our tight budget.
I think too many people are caught up in "me" and forget about "my world". I think the one word many describe me with is frugal, but in my opinion it is a lovely word. NOT because I stretch a dime, or because I save money or make my own whatever. To me the essence of frugality is sharing what you have or can share so that everyone benefits. If that is knowledge, or a book, or a ride or food or items or a hug, to me that is valuable and wonderful. So many of our kids are taught to earn to buy or have what they want. I have found it fun to teach mind to share, make do, and see what they can work together and with others to earn or have or create. It is 'frugal', character building, and to them? FUN!
Many people don't see others as people. Very few people my age that I have known now or growing up, ever saw their grandparents as people. I spent real TIME with my grands, esp my gmas. Weeks at a time where I went along on what they did, not when they only did what I wanted. Few people learn to see anyone not in their 'circle' as actual human beings. It scares me and in my opinion is why we have so much violence,at least as a major causative factor. If we felt more that everyone was a person just like us, we would be a vastly happier society and likely species.
tiredmommy
Well-Known Member
This clip is from a made for cable tv show, The Newroom. It's the series' opening scene and it talks a lot about the US culture. Please be aware that there is profanity, but it really talks about what has changed at around 6 min, 30 secs. The difference is, our greatest generation taught us to stand up and make changes. We don't do that anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zqOYBabXmA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zqOYBabXmA
BusynMember
Well-Known Member
Good people are not holier-than-thou and condenscending. A certain set of beliefs, especially if inflexible, doesn't make one good. "Good" is subjective
