Do kids have to say the Pledge of Allegiance at...

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by totoro, Jan 18, 2008.

  1. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    I am just curious... At school what are the laws/rules?
    K says she does not want to...
    I have my own opinions, regarding separation of church and state.
    And yes she said they do say One Nation Under God...

    I am just curious if anyone knows what the laws and rules are, she told me if she doesn't do it she can't go to recess... I told her not to say the words... she said she will still get in trouble. I am convinced she does not know the whole story... or history...
    So before I go and throw a hissy... I thought I would ask my well informed board members....

    I respect the American Flag but we do it at home in our own way... I feel the school is for education....
    TIA
     
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    We say it at our schools.
    I think you can opt to have your child sit down and not participate. I could never personally do that to my kids, no matter what my opinions were, because they'd be horrified to have to stand out like that. But I do know that a few parents in Madison WI were protesting The Pledge...not sure what happened there.
     
  3. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Toto,

    I don't know how to answer this without getting in trouble with the board rules regarding religion and politics...I'll PM you.
     
  4. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    So far as I know, you can get your child excused from saying the Pledge of Allegiance for religious purposes. However, I doubt the teacher or school is going to buy it since it wasn't stated before school started. "I don't want to" is rarely an excuse that is accepted by anyone.
     
  5. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    They can sit out... it says here in the Idaho Law Guidelines...

    I would rather have her say it if everyone is saying it... but if she is really not wanting to. I don't have a problem with her not saying the words, and just standing up.
    She came to me and said it bothered her... I didn't even realize they had started doing it! They just started this in January....
    If the whole class made her feel bad I would encourage her to do it...

    I want her to do what she wants and to stand up for what she believes in... to a point!!!
     
  6. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    I think our school says it and everyone must at least stand up while it's being said over the intercom, but they do not have to say the words. At least that's how it was 3 years ago in our HS.

    I understand your point about separation of church and state, etc., but IMVHO, I think that if you live in this country and you take advantage of all its liberties, it's not going to kill anyone to say the pledge of allegiance.

    As to the inclusion of God, we all have our own Gods. The word "God" is just another word. What it means to each individual is all that matters and how it pertains to their personal beliefs & living in the USA is their own business.

    If the school called me to tell me my kid couldn't go to recess because he/she didn't say the pledge, I'd make a stink because we are a free country...free to NOT say the pledge, in my opinion, so yeah, I'd argue that one.

    BUT, between my kid and me, I'd encourage them to do a little research about what the Pledge of Allegiance meant to our Original Americans, in particular those who named it our country's pledge and why. Then I would encourage them to make the connection between its origin and the present world in which we live and how it effects their life in America. Then, if they STILL didn't want to say it, I would back them up.

    My hope, however, would be that they would take pride in the ORIGINAL meanings and intentions of the pledge of allegiance and join in based on how their feelings fit in with their beliefs after they've done their research.

    on the other hand, I personally feel that our current leaders have become very clouded on what it means to be an American and I personally would not pledge my allegiance in agreement to what they believe the Pledge means. I am not an anti-government person or an athiest, etc., but I think if you're going to be pledging your allegiance to anything, you should have a clear understanding of what you're pledging allegiance to and only if you agree with it. I think a majority of schools just present it as something they have to do every morning, but never give the students a clean understanding of the meaning.

    That's my 2¢...stepping off soapbox. :soapbox:
     
  7. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Okay I thought more about it and here's a history lesson and reason behind the pledge - Maybe after reading this, it will take the edge off of her suspicions or inability to pledge to something she knows nothing about. Hope this helps and hope this thread gets to stay up. Here is an article I found to help.

    I think actually - she's wise for not PLEDGING herself to something that has no meaning - this would be a good time for the teacher to teach about what a pledge is and WHY most kids say it.

    • What does the Pledge of Allegiance mean to you?
    Definitions:
    • Pledge – a serious promise
    • Allegiance – loyalty or dedication to a belief or country
    • Recitation – written material to be read aloud from memory
    • Loyalty – being faithful or devoted
    • Devotion – giving attention, time, or help for a purpose
    Reading

    The original Pledge of Allegiance was written over 100 years ago. It was published in Boston,
    Massachusetts as “The Pledge to my Flag” on September 8, 1892. It appeared in a youth magazine called
    the “Youth’s Companion”. Who wrote it? No one knows for sure. Some believe Francis Bellamy, editor of
    the “Youth’s Companion” wrote it.
    The 22 word recitation was written for school children to use during the national Columbus Day
    celebration. October 11, 1892 marked the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus’ discovery of
    America. East coast leaders had planned many activities throughout the nation’s 44 states to celebrate the
    big day!
    On October 11, 1892 more than 12 million school children across the United States recited the
    pledge for the first time. The Pledge to my Flag read:
    I Pledge allegiance to my Flag, And to the Republic for which it stands:
    one Nation, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.
    Reciting the Pledge to the Flag quickly became a daily routine in America’s public schools.
    This original version of the pledge was used for 25 years before some changes were made. On Flag
    Day, June 14, 1923 the word “my” in my Flag was changed to “the”. The following year, the words “of the
    United States of America” were added after the word Flag.
    On June 22, 1942 the pledge became official. United States Congress included the Pledge to the Flag
    in the United States Flag Code. This was the first official approval given to words that had been recited by
    school children for 50 years. One year after receiving this official approval, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled
    that school children could not be forced to recite the Pledge as part of their daily routine.
    In 1945 the Pledge to the Flag received its official title as “The Pledge of Allegiance.” The last change
    in the Pledge of Allegiance happened on Flag Day, June 14, 1954 when President Dwight D. Eisenhower
    added the words “under God”.
    The pledge was first written as a 22 word recitation for a Columbus Day celebration. It is now a 31
    word profession of devotion to a flag and way of life. When you say the Pledge of Allegiance to the United
    States of America, you:
    • Promise your loyalty to the Flag itself.
    • Promise your loyalty to your own and the other 49 states.
    • Promise your loyalty to the Government that unites us all;
    o Recognizing that we are one Nation,
    o That we should not be divided or alone,
    o And understanding that the right to liberty and justice belongs to all of us.
     
  8. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Exactly!!!
    I don't have a problem with doing what I am asked and doing my part... It is the blindly doing something and not being able to ask questions... she is not allowed to ask questions. And while she is too young to know all the questions to ask...
    They do not explain why they are doing this... the History, what it all means...
    I want her to be able to question things and not be told to just sit down and be quiet.
     
  9. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    You know I don't want to send the wrong message here...
    My Mother and her whole side of the family came from the Spain and Portugal... My Brother and I were the first ones to speak English... My Father lives in Mexico...
    I do know what this Country means and growing up in California I saw what the influx can do and what negativity it can create...
    I love it here I love all it has to offer... good and bad.

    I just want it to be fair honest and with some amount of input allowed by an individual...
    I am just saddened at times by the state of things... by a lot of things... and if you can't question them... well then what?
     
  10. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    When I was in the 6th grade I lived in upstate NY. The pledge was played over the intercom every morning (as it was through all my school years no matter where I lived) and we stood up for it with our hand over our heart. However, kids were allowed to sit if it went against their beliefs. There was no missing recess, etc. That was my first experience with kids doing that.

    I understand where you are coming from, T. But, at 6 years old what is she really questioning? I don't mean that in a snappy way, I'm just wondering if at the age of 6 if she's really questioning the words behind it (cause at 6, I thought the words were 'for witches stand') or if she's objecting to it being different than it is at home.

    I'm all for standing up for your beliefs and having things explained. I think, also, there is a lot of value in seeing how the rest of the world does things. Respect on both sides, Know what I mean??
     
  11. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I'm not sure what a six year old could question either, and if she does have questions perhaps you can help her look it up at the library or on the computer to help her understand. I'm not sure what grade this history lesson is most appropriate for but I'm sure if and when it does come up questions will be answered.

    I've never had a problem with the words. If you don't believe in a particular god or any god for that matter then don't say those words. I often see people standing for the star spangled banner and not singing the words. It's a show of respect for the country that gives you the freedoms that many people have died for.

    Sorry I don't mean to offend but this is a hot button for me. You don't have to agree with the war or a particular president or political party to stand up for your country.

    Nancy
     
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