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Do logical/natural consequences hit home
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 40365" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Timer, I can see where the therapist is coming from but I do think that natural consequences are best, as far as possible. Otherwise how are they ever going to learn that the dots even have a chance of connecting?</p><p></p><p>I might explain the consequences, by drawing in the line to connect the dots, but since I didn't put the dots there I am not responsible for the natural consequences. For example - failure to complete school work at school because of "goofing off" means that work has not been done. This work HAS to be done for the lesson to be learnt. So if difficult child 3 wants to take some time off schoolwork to go to the shops - well, he can't, because he's already fallen behind. if he wants to go to the shops tomorrow, he could try putting in some extra work today to catch up on outstanding work. (He just came to me as I was typing this - he has finished his allotted work within the space allowed and is now moving on to do extra study for the next half hour, to make sure he can come shopping tomorrow).</p><p></p><p>We talk it through like that and explain it. It is then his choice - put in the extra effort, or miss going to the shops tomorrow. I DON'T say, "Until that work is done, you're not going near the shops," because at some stage I will need to take him shopping for footwear, or a haircut, or I will not have a choice about bringing him because otherwise he would be home alone for too long. I try to be careful to not paint myself in a corner.</p><p></p><p>I ask the kids to help me peel vegetables. If they are slow peeling vegetables, then dinner is delayed. If they complain about being hungry then I say, "The vegetables take a certain amount of time to cook. I put them on to cook as soon as I could. I had to wait for the vegetables, so we all have to wait the same extra bit of time for dinner. It's not my doing - I can't speed things up any more than I already have. It's got to be a team effort." (I avoid using words like 'fault' or 'blame', because then they can't throw them back at me. If THEY choose to blame themselves, it's their choice.)</p><p></p><p>Linda, you said, "I know my difficult child doesn't respond to natural consequences. I keep thinking if I keep doing it, something will click. I can talk to him about natural consequences and he understands and can verbalize it himself, but it doesn't prevent him from doing the same sorts of things over and over again."</p><p></p><p>What is not working for you here, is several possibilities:</p><p></p><p>1) He is too impulsive and although he is highly motivated to do the right thing, he forgets in the spur of the moment. Not much point in punishing afterwards because he will already be punishing himself.</p><p></p><p>2) He still hasn't learnt what is right and what is not. This is unlikely. But if it is true, before punishment comes teaching, in a way that he can actually recognise and remember. His brain may simply not be mature enough - it's like explaining to a three-week-old baby about toilet training.</p><p></p><p>3) He may have some control, but not recognise the link between the natural consequences and the action. Here is where you have to spell it out, and KEEP spelling it out.</p><p></p><p>Generally our kids know right from wrong and are highly motivated to do the right thing. But impulsivity and frustration get in the way and all common-sense and training goes out the window, to be followed by a hotheaded response, and eventually remorse. Punishment won't prevent a recurrence. You need to help them learn methods to lower their frustration and to reduce their impulsivity - not easy, when a lot of it is simply an immature brain. But you help them, you keep trying to support prevention and staying calm and in control, and eventually they will be able to give you what you want.</p><p></p><p>Natural consequences do work, because they're not something YOU'RE imposing as a punishment, which for some kids appears to be a parent exerting control for control's sake. No, this is just what happens in LIFE. You fail to pay the phone bill and the phone gets cut off. You fail to pay the power bill and you eat salad for dinner in the dark. After enough cold meals in a dark cold house you would hope you would remember to go pay the power bill, but for a child it takes longer.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 40365, member: 1991"] Timer, I can see where the therapist is coming from but I do think that natural consequences are best, as far as possible. Otherwise how are they ever going to learn that the dots even have a chance of connecting? I might explain the consequences, by drawing in the line to connect the dots, but since I didn't put the dots there I am not responsible for the natural consequences. For example - failure to complete school work at school because of "goofing off" means that work has not been done. This work HAS to be done for the lesson to be learnt. So if difficult child 3 wants to take some time off schoolwork to go to the shops - well, he can't, because he's already fallen behind. if he wants to go to the shops tomorrow, he could try putting in some extra work today to catch up on outstanding work. (He just came to me as I was typing this - he has finished his allotted work within the space allowed and is now moving on to do extra study for the next half hour, to make sure he can come shopping tomorrow). We talk it through like that and explain it. It is then his choice - put in the extra effort, or miss going to the shops tomorrow. I DON'T say, "Until that work is done, you're not going near the shops," because at some stage I will need to take him shopping for footwear, or a haircut, or I will not have a choice about bringing him because otherwise he would be home alone for too long. I try to be careful to not paint myself in a corner. I ask the kids to help me peel vegetables. If they are slow peeling vegetables, then dinner is delayed. If they complain about being hungry then I say, "The vegetables take a certain amount of time to cook. I put them on to cook as soon as I could. I had to wait for the vegetables, so we all have to wait the same extra bit of time for dinner. It's not my doing - I can't speed things up any more than I already have. It's got to be a team effort." (I avoid using words like 'fault' or 'blame', because then they can't throw them back at me. If THEY choose to blame themselves, it's their choice.) Linda, you said, "I know my difficult child doesn't respond to natural consequences. I keep thinking if I keep doing it, something will click. I can talk to him about natural consequences and he understands and can verbalize it himself, but it doesn't prevent him from doing the same sorts of things over and over again." What is not working for you here, is several possibilities: 1) He is too impulsive and although he is highly motivated to do the right thing, he forgets in the spur of the moment. Not much point in punishing afterwards because he will already be punishing himself. 2) He still hasn't learnt what is right and what is not. This is unlikely. But if it is true, before punishment comes teaching, in a way that he can actually recognise and remember. His brain may simply not be mature enough - it's like explaining to a three-week-old baby about toilet training. 3) He may have some control, but not recognise the link between the natural consequences and the action. Here is where you have to spell it out, and KEEP spelling it out. Generally our kids know right from wrong and are highly motivated to do the right thing. But impulsivity and frustration get in the way and all common-sense and training goes out the window, to be followed by a hotheaded response, and eventually remorse. Punishment won't prevent a recurrence. You need to help them learn methods to lower their frustration and to reduce their impulsivity - not easy, when a lot of it is simply an immature brain. But you help them, you keep trying to support prevention and staying calm and in control, and eventually they will be able to give you what you want. Natural consequences do work, because they're not something YOU'RE imposing as a punishment, which for some kids appears to be a parent exerting control for control's sake. No, this is just what happens in LIFE. You fail to pay the phone bill and the phone gets cut off. You fail to pay the power bill and you eat salad for dinner in the dark. After enough cold meals in a dark cold house you would hope you would remember to go pay the power bill, but for a child it takes longer. Marg [/QUOTE]
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