GoingNorth

Crazy Cat Lady
Of COURSE they implied that it was "either this or homeschool"!

Call BS on them! Under the law they have to provide him a FAPE. It is your job as his parent to become knowledgeable on what your child's rights are under IDEA.

School testing is slanted in the school's favor, and often not worth much. Being advanced in a subject isn't the only reason for mainstreaming a child, by the way.

Visit wrightslaw.com for a LOT of good info on your child's educational rights. Also check back here as often as you can. I suspect many others who are much more knowledgeable than I am will be along shortly to provide you with much more information.

Best of luck to you!
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
When we had a meeting in February they implied it was either this or homeschool for him.
What do you mean by "implied"? They either need to state that in writing, or they haven't said it. If they state it in writing, you can fight it. If they don't... it wasn't said.

That was Feb. This is now. That classroom is not working for him. They have to find another option.
 

RR2323

New Member
What do you mean by "implied"? They either need to state that in writing, or they haven't said it. If they state it in writing, you can fight it. If they don't... it wasn't said.

That was Feb. This is now. That classroom is not working for him. They have to find another option.

True. In your next meeting, if they say "this is it or homeschool", tell them to please add that statement to the IEP Meeting Report. Also, record your IEP meetings. Make sure you e-mail them a few days in advance and write "I just want to let you know I will be recording on the IEP meeting on (date)" You don't need to give a reason. Hopefully you do not live in a state where this will be an issue.
 

Wiped Out

Well-Known Member
Staff member
As someone said, the district cannot say you have to home school. I would definitely have an advocate with you when you go to the next iep meeting.

My son was in a full inclusion room when he was in elementary which I didn't think was always such a great idea. In middle they pulled him out more and in high school his iep has been the best because the classes have mostly been classes at his level instead of classes away from his level.

His BIP in his iep was really helpful in elementary and middle school. By the time he was a junior in high school they didn't even keep the bip in the iep anymore. I think being in classes at his level that naturally come with breaks and the peer partner club at his school continued to allow him to be with a lot of regular ed kids has really helped him a lot.
 

susiestar

Roll With It
Your school policy that 9 yo's who make threats get this over the top reaction with police is nuts. Zero tolerance RARELY makes either sense or positive improvements. It provides kids with get out of school cards to use as often as they want. When being in school is a horrible experience due to other kids, teachers/admin who do not understand or refuse to understand, and you have sensory issues, well, who wouldn't violate the zero tolerance policies like this one.

If your son has mood disorder not otherwise specified, PLEASE get a copy of The Bipolar Child by Papalous. Esp read the medication sections and INSIST that the psychiatrist follows the approved protocol. The medication protocol is approved by the board of child and adolescent psychiatrists, and it makes sense. Sadly there are a LOT of docs who don't want to follow it or haven't even learned about it. Many times the medication info a doctor gets is from the drug reps. They basically get the info about what the drug cos want them to prescribe and they don't get more than the basic facts that are in the marketing info. This isn't out of laziness on the doctor's part, but rather it is a function of an overwhelming case load.

The medication protocol calls for 1 or 2 mood stabilizers FIRST, and an antipsychotic if one is needed. Stimulants, antidepressants, etc... should be avoided until the moods are stable. This can take a very long time because it takes time to titrate up to a therapeutic dose and you must be at the therapeutic dose for quite some time before you know if it will work well. If there are symptoms left after moods are stable on the mood stabilizers and antipsychotic medication, you can TRY stimulants or antidepressants in small doses. This is put off because stimulants and antidepressants can CAUSE mood cycling, which is what you want to avoid. I would absolutely insist that my doctor followed this with my child because it has been proven to work. Often a bipolar patient who is unstable and is given antidepressants will seem much better at first, but then they spiral out of control because of the antidepressants. I know several people this has happened to. They have said they will not try antidepressants again for any reason because they don't like the way they feel on them.

What is being done for his sensory problems? Here they tried to tell me that after age 7 the child has 'outgrown' sensory issues and does not need any more help. The Occupational Therapist (OT) that works at our school district tried to convince parents of this so that they could save $$ by treating fewer kids. I have also been told that 7 or 8 is the cutoff age for brushing therapy to work. I don't believe this at all. I still have sensory problems and they are worse now than when I was a kid. I sure wasn't under age 8 when we learned about brushing. I was trained in it by a private Occupational Therapist (OT) to do with my youngest child. The Occupational Therapist (OT) said it wouldn't hurt me to do it to myself, nor would it hurt my older kids though it probably wouldn't provide any real help because the brain is to set in the way it works. I used the therapy on myself and all 3 of my kids. We ALL found ourselves able to handle more and able to cope with the world more than we ever had before. I think it is a very powerful therapy and I know it did more for my youngest child than it was possible for anything to do. And it used NO medication and the only cost involved was the Occupational Therapist (OT)'s time and the little brush.

We learned that every problem my kids had was more manageable if their sensory needs were met. If they are uncomfortable or are itchy or hungry or whatever, they struggle MUCH harder to cope with the world in a socially acceptable manner. For my boys (and many of their male friends) snacks with protein make an astounding difference in how they cope.

If you haven't read The Out of Sync Child, or haven't read it recently, I strongly recommend it. It really explains sensory issues and how to help them. I also recommend The Out of Sync Child Has Fun. If I was only going to purchase one of these, it would be the Has Fun book. It provides LOTS of fun ways to provide the sensory diet your child needs. I think your son is partly having problems because he is just so overwhelmed with sensory input and cannot cope. It is a horrible way to feel and you feel like a failure because you are the 'only' person who cannot cope with the noise or lighting or whatever. It can make school feel like a very long torture session both physically and emotionally. Then you get totally swamped and you just lash out to try to make it all stop. It is a miserable way to live. Providing the right sensory diet can turn this around very quickly. That is why I suggest the Has Fun book so strongly.

The Has fun book is actually fun for the entire family. We used to all participate in some of the activities, and many of my kids' friends would want to play too. We wore out three copies in five years just from constant wear. Most libraries have these books, I think.

I am sorry it is so hard. It really can get better but it takes work. Please use the info on the wrightslaw.com website and info here in our archives to help force your school to do what your son needs and has a right to. Also go to the state Dept of Education website to look for an advocate. You can get a free advocate (regardless of income in most states) to help you with the IEP and with enforcing the IEP. Also consult an education attorney or children's rights attorney because your school is not telling you the truth and is NOT providing FAPE for him.

I hope it gets better sooner rather than later!
 
I have nothing to add advice-wise. Just lots of hugs. I'm so, so sorry. It hurts to hear the words and see the raging. Wish I could give you a hug in person.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Over my dead body would my spectrum kids be in an "emotionally disabled" class.For that matter, I'd never allow any child of mine to be in a class with a hodgepodge of kids with behavior problems who are, most of them misdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all. I don't see how that helps any of the kids. There is no such diagnosis as "emotionally disabled." There is a reason that is concrete if a child acts out and reward/punishments don't work for these kids. All it does is frustrate them and the parents because these kids need REAL help and can not do this useless chart system. Nor do they care about it. Most of the time very little learning goes on here...the kids are too wild. Does your son have a 1-1 aide? If he rages, he should. He would probably do better in a quiet, small, low chaos classroom.

A Special Education class for normal behaviored kids worked well for my son who is doing great at twenty-one (on his own too). He was able to learn. The classroom was quiet and he worked at his own pace. There were Downs Syndrome kids there (they worked at their own pace), other cognitive delayed kids (my son has an average IQ but has trouble with certain learning concepts) and he was a great mentor and leader to them. Some had disorders I didn't know. But it was a cohensive close group and my son grew in every way, even socially, in that class. He spent his mornings there for reading and math and was mainstramed for the rest of the day with an aide. Couldn't have worked out better.

Get him out of there. He doesn't belong there. It's insane to call the cops on a nine year old. I'd homeschool before I'd allow that.
 
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RR2323

New Member
Over my dead body would my spectrum kids be in an "emotionally disabled" class.For that matter, I'd never allow any child of mine to be in a class with a hodgepodge of kids with behavior problems who are, most of them misdiagnosed or not diagnosed at all. I don't see how that helps any of the kids. There is no such diagnosis as "emotionally disabled." There is a reason that is concrete if a child acts out and reward/punishments don't work for these kids. All it does is frustrate them and the parents because these kids need REAL help and can not do this useless chart system. Nor do they care about it. Most of the time very little learning goes on here...the kids are too wild. Does your son have a 1-1 aide? If he rages, he should. He would probably do better in a quiet, small, low chaos classroom.

A Special Education class for normal behaviored kids worked well for my son who is doing great at twenty-one (on his own too). He was able to learn. The classroom was quiet and he worked at his own pace. There were Downs Syndrome kids there (they worked at their own pace), other cognitive delayed kids (my son has an average IQ but has trouble with certain learning concepts) and he was a great mentor and leader to them. Some had disorders I didn't know. But it was a cohensive close group and my son grew in every way, even socially, in that class. He spent his mornings there for reading and math and was mainstramed for the rest of the day with an aide. Couldn't have worked out better.

Get him out of there. He doesn't belong there. It's insane to call the cops on a nine year old. I'd homeschool before I'd allow that.

I agree 100% but where can the child go? This is a problem all over the country. When the child needs more support than they can get in general education classes w 30 kids in a class......where can they go? They get shoved in classes mixed w ED and autism and often mixed advanced level academics with below level kids. It is not right! But what can a parent do? If the child isn't "learning disabled" they won't put them in those quiet classes for children w different learning needs.
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
I'm not in the US... so experiences slightly different, but... where can the child go?
1) You fight like crazy for appropriate placement, and get all sorts of professional opinions about your child and the non-fit of the current placement. It's up to you to prove that the current placement is not appropriate.

2) You research until your eyes drop out and then start again tomorrow. Different schools, districts, options. If "that district" has this, why can't we? If "that school" has this, how can we get there?

3) You get a really good advocate who knows the system
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I agree 100% but where can the child go? This is a problem all over the country. When the child needs more support than they can get in general education classes w 30 kids in a class......where can they go?
I am jumping in here. Sorry. I fought for non-public school placements in 2 different school districts for my son and we won, each time. If the child with a disability and an IEP is not learning in a public school the responsibility is that of the public school to provide the services that it takes...for the child to learn.

I would find a disability advocacy group. We got a free attorney who went to the IEP with us.

In my experience as a parent and a professional schools will sacrifice the child if the parents allow it.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
I am jumping in here. Sorry. I fought for non-public school placements in 2 different school districts for my son and we won, each time. If the child with a disability and an IEP is not learning in a public school the responsibility is that of the public school to provide the services that it takes...for the child to learn.

I would find a disability advocacy group. We got a free attorney who went to the IEP with us.

In my experience as a parent and a professional schools will sacrifice the child if the parents allow it.

I want to add something important. My son was learning and was achieving at grade level. My concern was that he was being targeted by teachers and other students.

THAT WAS ENOUGH to get him non-public school.

NO CHILD, I mean nobody should have to be targeted or discriminated against in the process of being educated, which is a legal right.

So, they need to ensure that your child learns...in a suitable environment. That means, safe, not demeaning...where the child is not required to sacrifice basic rights and enrichment opportunities...received by other children.

I am forgetting the legal jargon here, but you get the point.

Wow. Once you agree to home schooling, to taking responsibility for everything yourself...they are off the hook. It seems school districts are LOVING home schooling.
 

RR2323

New Member
I am jumping in here. Sorry. I fought for non-public school placements in 2 different school districts for my son and we won, each time. If the child with a disability and an IEP is not learning in a public school the responsibility is that of the public school to provide the services that it takes...for the child to learn.

I would find a disability advocacy group. We got a free attorney who went to the IEP with us.

In my experience as a parent and a professional schools will sacrifice the child if the parents allow it.

The problem is that here the Non-Public placements are for kids with Autism and ED mixed! So if you have a high functioning kiddo (aspergers/autism) who does well academically and is falling apart in public school with an IEP, you can get a non-public placement but it will be with kids with ED! They do not have a separate non-public or private option that is just for kids with aspergers. What is worse, being with typically developing peers and struggling, or being segregated with kids with ED and struggling? It's all bad :(

Homeschooling may work for some people but I agree with the other poster, the school districts are then completely off the hook. They should be creating programs that work for kids!
 

InsaneCdn

Well-Known Member
ED classroom is not appropriate.

They could give him a semi-dedicated aide, in ALL mainstreamed classes. This has to be a person with understanding of Aspergers, who can recognize overload and pull him out for a break before he boils over. This person can and should be assisting others in the class who are struggling, but priority goes to helping the Aspie kid learn how to cope. It's not about rewards and punishments. It's about learning to read your own responses and have a plan that is safe and acceptable - and approved in the IEP so teachers can't say no.

I've seen kids have the right - on THEIR request, not the teacher's - to a hall pass, so they could "walk it off" when they were about to blow. Or a quiet room that they can retreat to, where there is some adult around to keep an eye on things but not interact with (one kid went to the janitor's office, for example - he loved looking at all the equipment, and could be trusted not to touch; another went to the library).

The aide needs to be able to intervene and teach social skills AND be on the look out for bullying and intervene and teach about Asperger's. Yes, it's a tall order. But I have seen it done. One school loved these kids, because they could never justify funds for enough aides. But if they had High-Functioning Autism (HFA) or Aspie in the class, they could make the case for a full time aide... and the aide had time to also help other kids who needed one but couldn't get funding. That was a double benefit - the aide was a "classroom" aide not a "kid" aide, so it took some of the attention off the fact that the kid was coded for a full time aide.

Sometimes, a smaller school with smaller class sizes is an advantage - as long as the other accommodations follow. Smaller usually reduces noise and chaos and other triggering events.
 

Copabanana

Well-Known Member
semi-dedicated aide
This is a good idea.
The school district may have other options you are not aware of for non public school. Non public school does not refer to just the segregated classrooms the school district has set up within the district.

In our case, a private taxi took my son back and forth to school...an hour away from our house....to another County. Because our county had no such alternative. And we had an attorney from a Disability Rights Advocacy Group. They had to pay a fortune but they had to do it.

If you were able to secure something like this....it could give you time to cobble together a better alternative. Like InsaneCdn I would not acquiesce to an ED classroom and I do not believe you will have to.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Each state and area is different. Where I live, there are no special schools, but certain schools have targeted classrooms. You have to take your state into consideration as th ey all have different rules too. And getting a student advocate from the Dept. of Public Education is very helpful with IEPs, if the advocate is good.

I'm glad my son went to public school. He spent some time with regular kids and some time with disabled kids and at his lunch table a hodgepodge of kids sat together. Since it was a small school, nobody picked on my son. Ever. In fact, the kids would pick on one another, but not the kids who were wired differently.

Being realistic, you need to think "where do I live? What is available here?" Visit the various schools. Your public school district will have to pay the costs for you if they can not offer your child the best free public education for his disabilities, but an out-of-district school can. Ours had to send him t here and bus him there on their dime. We also had to fight hard to get him there. You can't just go in there alone, with attitude, and take on an entire public school and think they will do what you want because you feel you are right. You will probably need to involve people outside of the district and it won't be easy. Nor should you give up because it won't be easy. Take it to the bank: Without a good, strong advocate, which you can find by calling your state's Dept. of Public Education, or, if you have the money, legal help, you will get nowhere. The school will do what it wants to do unless it has some person sitting with you who knows the laws and can take them to court, which they don't want.Going alone is like walking into a courtroom without a lawyer.You will not get a good deal.

Aspergers is no longer in the DSM. If your son has not done so, I recommend having him tested completely by a private neuropsychologist. My son's diagnosis ended up being Autistic Spectrum Disorder and THAT got him his services that still help him today, at age twenty one. Aspergers is part of Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). The neuropsychologist was very firm and wrote that to flourish my son will need special supports that probably will extend to adulthood (this helped him as an adult). I know he was lalying it on thick, but it gave the school district very little room to argue. And my son has an average IQ, but he learns differently enough that "cognitive disorder not otherwise specified" was listed as a second diagnosis. This does NOT mean low IQ. It means they don't learn the way other kids learn. And if you are on the spectrum, you ARE different. He also stressed social skills, which we received.

In short, where you live, what your resources are in your state and area, and how far you are willing to go to fight for your child's services play roles in what kind of services he will get. You can't put him somewhere that doesn't exist in your community. Take a stroll around and see what schools are there and if there are no special schools, see which public schools offer the best supports. My experience is that it is not easy to get an aide...that costs the school money. They have kind of realize there is no other choice. My son's aide helped him probably more than anybody else. He shared he aide with two other kids, and needed the aide the least of them, but she was a BIG factor in his turnabout in school and in his social life. Today he is a very well adjusted, mostly independent and polit and happy young man. Literally, this once raging child, has tons of people coming up to me to tell me what a polite, nice, kind and hardworking young man I have and what a GREAT job I did as a mother...haha. (I always tell them, no, it wasn't me...he did it himself with a little help from some school angels). The result and change was and is amazing. If you met him, he would dazzle you too as he does everyone. And this was my raging monster!!! He is on no medication. He learned from interventions. Some Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids do need medications, but we are glad he doesn't need any. Please make sure you get the max for your precious child. It will make all the difference in his life. I never dreamed my son would learn how to control his temper. Today he is calm and rarely even gets angry...autistic kids can change for the better A LOT, but they need guidance to learn how to do it. Pushing htem to not be autistic does not work, but my son gets more "normal" every year...on his own.
 
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BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Of COURSE they implied that it was "either this or homeschool"!
They can't force homeschooling, but I know kids who had some teacher come out to the house two hours a day and THAT was their "education." So you are sort of right here. You simply have to fight hard and get the right people to fight with you. And you can't let the school be in charge of your child. You have to do what it takes to be the one in charge. They are worried about the cost of teaching your child while you are concerned with his very life. The school is not your friend with IEPs a nd services.
A free public advocate is available to everyone. Schools don't tell yout his. You ahve to call your state Dept. of Public Education, find out the name and phone number of your advocate, and work with her or him. He has the power. You call the Dept. of Public Ed and ask for the person in charge of Special Needs Chidlren and then ask about the advocate and don't get discouraged if you have to leave a few messages. Keep calling back. Keep after it. Your child's life depends on your willingness to fight for him. He is too little to do it himself.

Good luck :)
 
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