Don Imus

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by Nancy, Apr 13, 2007.

  1. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I hope with all my heart that the bigger lesson that comes out of this incident is for society to finally say it is not OK for offensive and degrading music lyrics and rap and comments our young people are calling each other.

    I have been outraged at the fact that it seems to be ok for young people to call each other the "n" word or hoe or other offensive terms and make it acceptable by changing a vowel. We have accepted this in our young people but as we see now that acceptance seems to make it OK.

    One day woman, blacks, minorities all over must stand up and say it is time to stop. I hope that begins today.

    I am glad that Mr. Imus has accepted responsibility in this matter and that his apology seems to be sincere and has been graciously accepted. Perhaps he can start the movement against this kind of talk in our society.

  2. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    That would be ideal, Nancy. I have to admit, however, I don't think that any long term benefit will come from this. I watched
    part of an interview with a young leader in the black community who was asked, politely, how it made sense that a man would lose
    his career for using words that were common in todays song lyrics
    and conversations on television. The young man said, with the utmost sincerity, the difference is that our people were oppresssed for a very long time. I thought, HUH?? How does that
    bode for a change in society? We're suppose to flip sides and
    use different parameters for acceptability? I don't think so.DDD
  3. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    DDD yeah that makes no sense. Everytime I read one of the conversations from the kids myspaces and I see the terms they use for each other, I wonder how they can excuse that, how they can say that's OK but it's not OK for an adult to use those same terms.

    I hope that each of those talented, educated women basketball players makes it a point to tell every young person they hear use those words that it is not right, I hope they stand up for what they stood for in this case. Maybe when our young people call each other on it things will change.

  4. Fran

    Fran Former Site Owner

    I can't imagine that one would speak in such a disrespectful way about professional,intelligent athletes who are breaking ground for all female athletes. It appears to reduce the women to a joke.
    If you remove race from the mix. Ho's? He thinks he can reduce women to sluts for humor? It's humiliating to all women especially those who don't deserve to be dismissed.

    I have no opinion about music lyrics. I don't have any real understanding of how one can censor music other than not buying it.

    Dismissing women to the role of 'ho and then adding a racial slur to it is a reason for all women to take a minute to ask where that mentality is coming from.
  5. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Fran I think a lot of it comes from society accepting it. Music lyrics is one thing but there is a whole generation out there who are growing up hearing those terms in everyday language among their peers. And it's up to all of us/them to say it's not acceptable. I am nto suggesting censorship, I'm suggesting we all do what was done in this case, withdraw our support, both monetarily and socially. So the next time one of our kids hears their peers saying the word "ho" or "n" they should have the courage to call them on it. That just isn't done now because those terms are all over every facet of their lives, from tv to movies to music to myspace to everyday getto talk so prevalent in today's youth culture.

  6. tinamarie1

    tinamarie1 Member

    I personally think the whole thing is ridiculous...I mean the mans show is on cable tv, right? Ever hear of Howard Stern? I couldn't listen to him for 5 minutes without feeling personally offended, but guess what? Hes a bazillionaire and still on the radio every day. Ever watch South Park? Or Mind of Mencia? They run the gammett of disrespecting all religions and races(every single show..its what they do to get laughs). I think that Don Imus' comment is a drip in the bucket compared to all the nasty vulgar things out there. I think its a shame that they have chosen to make a huge example out of him, and not tackle these much bigger dogs who are out there being so blatently biggoted and racist.
    And you can't really say that all this is new to society, it has just become way more accepted. My boss is an older gentleman, and you should hear the things that come out of his mouth. I have personally had to tell him to back off with the comments or I will quit. He tells me its the "old south" that comes out in him. shesh
    just my 2 cents
  7. kris

    kris New Member

    <span style='font-size: 14pt'> <span style='font-family: Georgia'> <span style="color: #660000"> i truly don't understand this double standard about this type of language. if you want the respect you have to treat yourself & everyone with-respect. i feel a bit bad for imus tho i do think that he will have a show on satallite radio with-in three months. he apologize with-what seems like genuine sincerity.

    </span> </span> </span>

    TYLERFAN New Member

    I agree with DDD. The words that are being used by primarily Black rap singers have done more to hurt young black and white Americans than anything Don Imus could have said. :nonono:
    Why does a people who have been oppressed, (and many peoples have and are being oppressed), continue to put forth such a negative and harmful influence with absolutely no protests from the black community? Why?
    The only guy I've seen come out against this stuff is Bill Cosby and he has been shunned by his fellow Afican-Americans. What an outrage. I will try to show my bi-racial grandchild only positive images of his heritage. Maybe by the time he is grown, this nonsense will have stopped. :grrr: Don Imus didn't deserve to be fired.

  9. Fran

    Fran Former Site Owner

    Nancy, I'm the first to say my experience with teen language is limited so I can't really speak to what and how kids speak.

    However as a woman, I'm more offended at other women being referred to as a ho. It doesn't matter what race you are.
    I think this is more of a woman's issue and not a race issue. AT all.
    Where are all the women's right's organizations?
    My outrage at reducing all women regardles of their accomplishments as wh***'s far outweighs the racial slur, in my humble opinion.

    I am not blind to ethnic slurs and try hard to not encourage or feed into jokes and snide remarks about stereo types. Just because a lot of people do it or think it's funny or think it's over kill by the politically correct wave doesn't make it right.
    Everyone deserves to have their heritage treated with dignity. A melting pot should have different flavors. It should also be that we don't slur other sexes. I hate stupid women jokes. We are already vulnerable and fight to be paid and promoted as equals. Equal pay for equal work. It stereo types of women keep going around as acceptable it makes it all that much harder to expect equal treatment in the workplace.

    Under the law, I should not be seen as a woman,Italian-American,middle age,yankee or wh***. We are each a citizen with worth and should be judged by the same expectations and rules.
    Making women into jokes disgusts me. We have to set the standard for our daughters and grand daughters. No one should talk about them in such a demeaning way.
    So that's my vent. Sorry,I get carried away on equal treatment and dignity especially for women.
  10. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    I find it very disturbing that my daughter accepts language of this sort directed at/about her in the music & such in the media. kt feeds into the very image that the media is "representing" young women to be.

    Having said that, I agree with Fran. It's demeaning whether from Don Imus or the current music moguls.

    I feel that all people everywhere deserve a certain level of respect. The term "ho" is in no way respectful to women as a whole & is very demeaning & misleading toward our children.

    Young men feed into this mentality; young women accept it as the way it should be.
  11. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Not that I approve of anything he said or the language he used ... and maybe this is just the way I see it ... but I honestly don't think he meant any harm by his comments, misguided as they were. I think he's just an ol' guy who was stupid enough to try to say something "cool" like what he hears the kids say, and coming out of him, it stuck out like a sore thumb! Of course, I didn't hear any of the conversation leading up to this comment. Before he said this, was he putting down this team or insulting them in other ways?

    Have you watched some of the music videos lately? You see a guy in shades and diamond rings, probably in a fur coat ... and while he's using these same offensive words, he's leaning on his Rolls Royce while half-naked women are dancing around him suggestively and crawling all over him! What's wrong with this picture! That's the "culture" and it's out there! And it gives the impression that it's not only acceptable to the men, it's just fine and dandy with the women too to be spoken of in this way! And our kids are watching this garbage and soaking it up!

    The way I see it, the ones who could put a stop to it are some of these young women! At the risk of sounding like the "Church Lady" from SNL, THEY are the ones who should be standing up and strongly objecting to women being portrayed in this manner. I'm sure Don Imus knows the difference between an accomplished college athlete and scholar and a street-walker, but the 13 year olds don't! And they're the ones watching these videos!

    And don't even get me started on the "oppressed" thing ... considering where I work, this is a VERY sore subject ...
  12. Sara PA

    Sara PA New Member

    I watched Imus fairly regularly. His show is nothing like Howard Sterns. It was carried by MSNBC because Imus' call in guests were for the most part people at the top of politics, government and news. He had people on both sides of the political spectrum and he allowed them to talk, sometimes about topics of the day, sometimes about things that weren't in the front of news. He also had some generally tasteless, annoying satirical skits, but it seems like most who watched/listened for the politics went to the bathroom or took their showers when those were on. Most people seemed to just igore them. However from time to time he would start ragging on some woman whose name crossed his desk. It didn't matter why her name crossed his desk, it didn't matter how accomplished she was or in what field she was involved, Imus and his crew would comment on her appearence as thought the only thing that gives women value is their looks. He was not above going on and one about how "fat" some woman was ("fat" being anything not very thin) or how ugly a woman is, once even saying a woman was so ugly she shouldn't be on TV. These outbursts happened regularly, you could expect comments like that on a daily basis. Less often, though not a whole lot less, he and his crew made negative comments about various minorities. Apparently it was suppose to be witty repartee.

    Had Howard Stern said the same thing, there probably wouldn't have been an outcry (though Stern has been fined by the FCC a number of times, IIRC). But then, Howard Stern's show was never carried on a major cable news network and no one regularly listens to Stern for his political guests.

    When I realized that these comments were a regular part of the Imus show and that there was no negative response to them, I cut back on how much I watched it. But when the other morning shows were All Anna Nicole Smith All The Time for a while, I went back to Imus. I liked the intelligence his guests brought to the show.
  13. Fran

    Fran Former Site Owner

    I guess I don't really care if he meant harm or not. He is old enough and rich enough to know better. He isn't trying to break into music or cover for no talent or part of the rap movement.
    He was degrading women especially talented, professional athletes who happen to be women. This wasn't a general comment but specific to a team of women.
    I can't speak about Howard Stern or rappers. I'm only speaking of this particular incident. Everything those women overcame to be the best ball players on their team was dismissed to a joke.

    I'm sure he is really sorry and embarassed but everyone gets consequences. Personally I don't mind that he lost his show because he referred to women as wh***'s.

    I'll shut up now. I know everyone has an opinion and not everyone feels that his consequence was appropriate for his behavior but I do.
    If anyone else refers to any woman who isn't actually working the streets as wh***'s they should be fired. We should as women,not tolerate it. in my humble opinion.
  14. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Nappy-haired was the racial part, it was a racial slur much more than a female slur. But either one is wrong. I guess I don't see why we can become outraged when we as women are attacked but when minority women are attacked we turn a blind eye toward the racial part. The Rutgers Woman's Basketball team was made up of almost all African Americans. It was meant as a racial term by Imus. He started out in my town, I know what he does. Hopefully yesterday was the beginning of a new era for him.

    And it's not just music that those terms are in, all across America young people are calling each other "niggas" as if the "a" makes it OK. That really has to stop, we didn;t use those terms when I was growing up in the civil rights times and they certainly have no place here. Nappy-haired...if that isn't racial I don't know what is. The term "ho" is also very much a racial term although it is now being used across the board.

    And whoever said this is right, blacks are calling each other that and they make it OK for everyone else to use the term.

    The way I feel is that this had to happen to make a point. Perhaps Imus was a scapegoat, I personally feel as though he should have been fired (he was not on cable). He should not be able to use the airways to continue to spout his racial and minority attacks.

    Woman across America have to stand up and stop the getto talk too. There is a whole sub culture out there made up of young men and women who grew up with this getto talk and soemthing has to make them change before we loss all the ground we have made up in women/minority rights.

  15. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    I think what sets Imus' remarks apart from that of the misguided youth culture is that his former position as a national broadcaster adds weight to his words. Instead of seeing his venue as a place to entertain & inform responsibly, he chose instead to degrade. This is, in my opinion, a blatant show of institutionalized racism & sexism. MSNBC & CBS radio were right to drop him.
  16. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    I think you have all made very good points, but I'm so tired of the double standard. I've never cared for Imus. I used to listen to Howard Stern, but got annoyed with him as I got older. I cold care less if they are on the air or not. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, however. I think that rap and music stars/industry should be held accountable just as much. I think that teenagers and young people are listening to that and definitely not Imus. I don't think for one minute that the teenage community as a whole is really listening to Imus, but the rap and music industry is shoving that type of language, comments and degradation down our throats. I see music videos now and cringe!

    If the modeling and fashion industry can make a stand(finally) against super rail-thin models, then the music industry can set some standards for themselves and say they will not take part in music that is degrading to anyone (race, women or men). If the fashion industry can finally realize the damage they were doing to our young girls, then the music industry can do the same.
  17. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I so agree with you Loth.

  18. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Nancy, I agree with everything you have said.

    Those of us old enough to remember the civil rights struggles in the 60's are maybe even more outraged and appalled by the current "culture" than some of the younger ones.

    A few years ago the domestic violence group I was a part of attended a convention in Birmingham, Alabama and while we were there we toured the Civil Rights Museum, a real eye-opening experience for anyone. One member of our group was a black lady about my same age who had grown up in Memphis in the very middle of the Civil Rights movement. And as we walked through the museum taking in the displays, she began to tell us what it was like for her growing up at that time and in that place. She was in high school at the time and she talked about how the Civil Rights workers came to the high schools and colleges to recruit students to participate in demonstrations and sit-ins, how they were organized and trained. She was THERE and she told us exactly how it feels to have fire hoses turned on you and police dogs set on you, and how they were all arrested many, many times for standing up for what they believed in!

    They went through this for the opportunity to have equal access to jobs, education and housing. They went through all this, not just to get the legal rights and opportunities that all Americans should be entitled to, but to be treated with dignity and respect, as human beings should be! And I can't help thinking what people like my friend must be thinking when they see some of the current music videos and to see how the current "culture" portrays blacks in general and women in particular! I'm sure she and every one who went through similar experiences in their youth are even more appalled than I am! It's like we've come full circle and have undone many of the steps forward they struggled so hard to make in the 60's. I'm old enough to remember!

    OK, I'm officially off my soapbox now!
  19. skeeter

    skeeter New Member

    Even with almost grown kids (20 and 16), I've had little exposure to the whole rap culture stuff. My kids have been raised around folk music festivals. They've been exposed to Classical, Celtic, Americana, Blue Grass, 60's protest, 70's rock and old school Country and Country and Western. My oldest listens to mainly Country and 70's rock, my younger Classical and Celtic (with jug band thrown in!).

    But I have been exposed with some of the volunteer work we do with the police. And I don't care what racial background or whatever you are, I find it offensive. If one took, oh, five or six "words" out of the English language, they would have no lyrics to the songs!! Plus it's the whole glorification of a lifestyle of guns, bling and sex.

    And from a purely musical standpoint, I just don't see it as music. "Remixing" isn't music - there's no instrument playing involved. The "chanting" isn't singing. As my younger son says - he can't see his generation in 60, 70 years rapping at the nursing home!!!

    Now, I know every generation goes through the "our parents don't understand our music" thing, but this stuff just baffles me.

    As for Imus - has his 15 minutes of fame been used up yet?
  20. rejectedmom

    rejectedmom New Member

    I grew up with "Imus in the Morning" even as a teen I thought the man was a total moron. He reveled in shocking people and then would say in essence "I was only kidding" I think his demise (and others like him) is long overdue. As far as the language of rap and the disrespect young people have for others and themselves these days. I find it very troublesome. -RM