Don't Understand abt the Court Stuff

susiestar

Roll With It
I think your husband needs mental health care. I am not at all sure he knows what reality is. He has likely put his spin on all the info and now truly believes that what he thinks is the truth. Even if he suddenly decides gravity is a myth, all the evidence in the world will not change his opinion. No matter what falls on his head!

YOU cannot win for losing. Do NOT let him chase you out of the home. You will lose a whole lot of assets if you do that.

Go to court. It it seems warranted, speak up. Just be ready for a ton of mistakes in what they say and do.
 

WSM

New Member
My sister has a theory. She likes husband, most people do, but is incredulous about how he's behaving. husband always did give way too big benefit of the doubt and always did give second and third and fourth and fifth chances ad nauseaum, he always minimized, smoothed over, forgot/dropped grudges, etc... That was just how he was.

husband always was conflicted about difficult child and the problems. Excusing them, feeling guilty, getting angry, etc... He--and we--have never really known what to do about difficult child. There just isn't good advice out there. Nobody really knows what to do with a kid who behaves at such a young age the way difficult child does.

Last spring the problems with difficult child escalated with the knives and syrup and electronics and it' like husband gave up. He shut down and went into denial. Add in the problems with the school, the drugs, the constant onslaught of crappy, somewhat scary behavior, husband gave up. He found a solution that made it all go away: denial, fortified with drinking.

Sister points out that husband kept wanting to send difficult child away for the summer and didn't care that it would essentially ruin what was left of his birth family. That when he was about to return from 3-weeks away at camp he said he didn't want difficult child back. And he's said several times how he regretted he ever had kids.

So her theory is husband is struggling with himself. He wants difficult child to be turned over to the state and to be relieved of the responsibility of him, but he feels very guilty for wanting this...so he's making a big blustery show of fighting for difficult child to get his family and his own self off his back. And to salvage his relationship with difficult child who is also giving husband a massive constant guilt trip: you hate me, you never believe me, I hate living here, I wish I'd never been born, WSM says this and that about me, you lie to me, you favor daughter, I'm going to drop out of school at sixteen and leave home, I'd rather live with my mom even on the street, etc...

Sister says denial was the perfect solution. If he could get me to go along with it, all his problems were solved. Since I wouldn't, since I was sabotaging the easiest solution, I had to be the bad guy, and since I was the bad guy, he convinced himself that it was all right to lie to me and bully me.

When it made things worse, Sister says husband was in a funk especially since the therapist and some others seemed to line up with me. Denial didn't make things better, it divided people and made everything worse, people now lined up on two sides...and he was in the middle. She believes he really wants to be on my side, but that means losing his son and being what his family said he was, a bad father.

When the therapist said difficult child should go in the psychiatric hospital, husband protested and complained and denied the need--but on a small pretext, did put him in. difficult child had done a lot worse than break the fins off a ceiling fan, that was small potatoes in difficult child dysfunction. But husband put him in the hospital for it.

When the therapist said difficult child needed long term care, husband asked for it at the psychiatric hospital (they didn't do anything to help) and researched it. But he couldn't actually bring himself to file the commitment papers. However, when the CPS lady showed up, he admitted right off that difficult child was lying and agreed to testify against difficult child if he had to. He could have kept difficult child's lying to himself and could have made it clear he wouldn't testify against his son. But he didn't.

So she thinks husband is going to do the right thing in court but pretend all along he's not selling difficult child down the river. She thinks he'll be relieved if the state takes difficult child, but can't admit it to himself and wants to look like the hero who did everything possible to keep difficult child out of state custody. She thinks he's not only afraid of his family's reaction, but of the stigma of society when people learn he has a kid in punk jail, and that he's ashamed of his failure as a father. Especially when he fought so hard to get custody and was the hero. husband likes being the hero.

She also thinks he's upset with me because I don't see his dilemma and am reading too much into his blustery posturing. And that he's lying and trying to keep me in the dark and away from court, not because he wants to lie to save difficult child (because he really doesn't), but because he doesn't want me to have more ammunition against difficult child. He knows difficult child is going to accuse me in court and doesn't want me to know it, because he's hoping some day things will be better and that day is further off everytime difficult child makes an accusation. And she thinks he's afraid that this accusation might be the thing that pushes the marriage over the edge, and he wants to keep the marriage--so he has to keep difficult child's accusations and behavior in the dark and is inventing phony allies in police, PubDefs, and docs in the hopes to keep me appeased, soothed, reassured (see dear, you are overreacting, difficult child isn't so bad you need to divorce me over).

And he's going to have to account to his brother and mother about how it is he was such a bad father he lost his son. And they will never forgive him, and will blame him for marrying me and will align with difficult child against him and his birth family and difficult child will eventually all cut him off (which I think is very likely), and husband is trying to make a case: I did everything, I lied for the kid, I missed work for him, I spent $xx on lawyers, $xx on therapists...but it was out of my hands.

ANyways,

That's my sister's theory.
 

WSM

New Member
I think husband needs mental health care for sure. He needs to detox from this situation and his birth family crappe.

I don't really buy all my sister's theory, but think she might be on the right track with thinking that husband would secretly be relieved if difficult child were taken--provided no one criticized him for it, a very unlikely scenario. However, it explains why he'd consider sending difficult child to him mom's. He'd be rid of difficult child and not criticized by anyone for it (until it all fell apart and got ugly at mom's and they blamed him).

I think he's really convinced himself that difficult child is a poor little troubled boy who is being treated unfairly by the world who doesn't understand how much difficult child wants to be normal. That if difficult child just got 'a break' and some extra tlc, he'd be fine.

And there's nothing that will prevent me from going to court. I just hope something is resolved on Thursday, it doesn't get continued, or the sentencing, if he's found guilty, get delayed, or there needs to be more tests or whatever.

If the judge orders some kind of family counselling, I don't know if I will participate. Everyone keeps telling me this isn't my kid and I have no rights. I've done nothing wrong, why should I have to be bothered and my kids be bothered with mst? Especially if I file for divorce.

If the judge orders family intervention counselling, I will file for divorce and refuse. At that point just about all the judge can do is order difficult child not to live in the same house with me, which means husband has to move out.

This is very hard. All these, what ifs, what ifs... And what do I do if husband does tell the court he thinks it's me or my kids who are setting difficult child up? Do I send a note to the prosecutor? Or will I be asked as a witness? Or will it not matter at all (except to me and husband who will be seeing divorce papers within 48 business hours).

What if, what if, what if....

I can't live like this.
 

klmno

Active Member
In an indirect way, sort of, the courts can put husband in a position to choose between you and his son if you are not compliant with court orders for intensive family therapy or mst- unless the therapist decides to leave you out of it. But if you are left out of it, then that means you don't get a say in the rules and given the state of your marital problems, I doubt that will work. So, if it should get to a point where husband has to go to court because his son was ordered all this but the family wouldn't get on board, the judge will probably pressure him to comply with the court order and do the therapy, even if it costs his marriage.

As far as if the son gets turned over to the state, that doesn't mean it's forever. My son was committed to state Department of Juvenile Justice. Thhis happened last winter and he is due to get out in Feb. on good behavior. He will return home unless I refuse to allow it. Then, that can be a whole new can of worms. But, this is not the same thing as losing parental rights. My family does not understand that but I did not "lose custody". difficult child's custody was given to Department of Juvenile Justice due to difficult child's illegal activity, not any activity I did or didn't do - other than the fact that I told the court difficult child needed to be in a secure facility at that time and I told them I couldn't afford to have difficult child come back home rigght then and do intensive family therapy (which was true). This was preceeded by worse actions by my son than your husband's son and that had a lot to do with my decision. Still, I vissit my son, am trying to get family therapy while he's incarcerated, will have to pay child support to the state, etc. So, this is not over even if "the state takes" your husband's son.

Look at it this way- if, at court, difficult child's defense attny says that there is some question about whether or not difficult child had the stuff planted on him and you jump up and say "no he did not" and husband shoots you a dirty look, the judge sees BIG family problems. The judge doesn't know who's telling the truth or not but figures the family problems are a big red flag for difficult child's behavior problems. Even if you are right, the marital discord can fuel the difficult child behavior. So, there is a possibility that the judge will order intensive therapy based on this alone.

I suggest reminding yourself that either you can't stand this kid and don't want to be married to husband because of that, or that difficult child cannot ruin your marriage and whatever marital problems you have are due to your and husband's poor relationship, not his kid. If you are determined to divorce husband no matter what, the issues are still to be dealt with in divorce court, not juvenile delinquent court. What scenario would you stay with your husband- short of him all of a sudden saying "you are right- I'm going to make sure difficult child is sent somewhere else to live AND I will get the therapy you want and change as soon as possible"?
 
Last edited:

WSM

New Member
Yes, I've told husband that difficult child will be back, as has the CPS lady. But husband still moans he's abandonning his son--as if he has any say in it any more. The average stay in juvvy in this state is 5 months. So difficult child will be back. I don't think there's an option to refuse since he wasn't violent. He's young so he might get less.

The average for Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is a year. But he might get more because he's young and very troubled.

Or beds are scarce and state money is tight, so they might give him and us intensive counselling. That won't work even if I participate. But if I choose to participate I will be bringing up the drinking. And if I file for divorce, I don't see how the judge can compell me, since I'm not longer part of the family. It's my house so I can't be made to leave. I've done nothing wrong except to say I don't want to be married to my husband any more and don't want to parent a child who is not mine.

If they find difficult child not guilty, I think I'm going to ask husband to send difficult child up north for the schoolyear to live with mother in law while husband and I settle the divorce and break up the house. In fact, if difficult child is found guilty and only gone a month or two I think I'll ask that anyway. I can't see living much more in this house with husband and difficult child under any circumstances. I'm just too old for this nonstop drama.

husband's brother lived two or three years with a family friend because mother in law was such a mess as a single mother she couldn't cope. So the family thinks farming out kids is not a bad thing. And right now everyone thinks it will give mother in law something to do and get her out of their hair. She desperately wants to raise difficult child--but it will be a disaster, she can barely spend a weekend with him without dissolving into tears because he's not fulfilling her grandma fantasy. But it won't be my problem. By the time difficult child has them all convinced that he was criminally abused here and turned sisterinlaw against motherinlaw and played games with knives and syrup and stolen enough money and pretty much has used up all their codependency fantansies and they are ready to throw him back to husband or file for permenant custody, I'll be gone.

The more I think about it, the I think about it, the more I think my sister is right that husband does secretly want difficult child out of his hair and in more capable hands, but can't face that truth about himself. I think he'll be glad to send difficult child off and blame me while we get the house sold and our new separate lives settled.
 

susiestar

Roll With It
I think your sister is probably a fairly wise woman. I am sure she knows more than we do about husband and how he handles his life and about difficult child and his illness.

It seems quite logical that husband does not want the hassle and pressure of dealing with difficult child but also does not want anyone to be mad at him.

Esp given his bizarre family.

mother in law might actually be a good option for difficult child. Not short term, but in the long term the entire family might decide difficult child is "too much like his mother" and push husband to get him placed in an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or something.

That would problem make your husband feel better, LOL!

Whatever you do, I am sure that you will do the best you can. Just be SURE that the judge knows it is YOUR home from before the marriage so he doesn't order YOU out of the home. You may want to talk to your own lawyer before the hearing just to get an idea of what might happen and your options. If you speak to the atty after the hearing it just might be too late for some options that might be really good for you and your children.
 

BusynMember

Well-Known Member
Sounds like you have an excellent plan there. You and your wonderful boys go your way and let the dysfunction go it's way. And you're smart to go to court. You don't need false allegations against you and I believe these two could do that. Stand your ground!
 

klmno

Active Member
Or beds are scarce and state money is tight, so they might give him and us intensive counselling. That won't work even if I participate. But if I choose to participate I will be bringing up the drinking. And if I file for divorce, I don't see how the judge can compell me, since I'm not longer part of the family. It's my house so I can't be made to leave. I've done nothing wrong except to say I don't want to be married to my husband any more and don't want to parent a child who is not mine.

I doubt they will give Residential Treatment Center (RTC) without the in home counseling first. I tried for that and it didn't work- it isn't policy in most areas and now it's worse with the the lack of funding, as you noted. It makes no sense, but that's the way it is in most places. No, they won't make you move out. They probably will push husband to though as soon as they figure out that the marriage isn't going to last and you are not making every effort to keep the whole family together, including difficult child, and willing to do whatever they say to meet that goal. (I''m not saying you should, just that you are not.)

My guess is that if difficult child has actually been convicted in court a few times before and found guilty, they will give him a longer term detention. But, if he's never had detention time or probation time or in home therapy, they are probably going to order probation with the therapy, even if they include some short term detention first. husband will not be able to jsut send difficult child somewhere without going back to court if that is ordered. If he's only on probation, he might be able to but it's not that simple if the goal is family therapy. This is why I can see your husband feeling like he has to choose between you and his son. If you aren't going to be around anyway, it might be a good idea to let him know that before the court date-unless you are just trying to make sure he's left without you, a place to live, and not being able to keep custody of his son.

I'm just trying to help so I hope I'm not making you feel worse. You do need to know though that the court will be looking for a way to keep (or eventually return) difficult child to his father and family involvement will probably be required.
 
Last edited:
Top