Double the Trouble

[kamtwins]

Hello, I am new to this site. I have 8 year old twin boys who are wonderful, intelligent, talented, funny, vibrant, and active. I had suspected at around three years old that there was a possibility of ADHD. Husband against medications, and I wasn't quite sure yet. pediatrician DR said definitely not, as do most people still, including my husband and his parents. Now that they're in third grade and problems keep escalating, family is finally considering the possibility. I took initiative to have them tested. difficult child#2 (younger of twins) was diagnosed ADHD. difficult child#1 didn't finish testing due to other reasons, but at first meeting ran out of building. (Not a good sign)

Now they are seeing a therapist who suggests all different things to take care of their behavior. They lack self-control, are impulsive, stealing from us (food, money), and can figure a way out of anything. They are super smart. (Together or seperate) So each suggestion we try, and it fails. I decided to set up appointment with P-DR (which is tomorrow) to diagnose them again and find out why they are doing what they are doing . . .

We've taken everything away from them. They don't play with toys. They didn't have TV for awhile, earned it back, and had it taken away again. Put alarms on doors - they dismantled in less than 15 minutes of them being up (and majority of the 15 minutes they didn't know they were there). mother in law wanted to seperate them, but this means pulling one of them out of current school (which we just started this year). I can seperate at home as far as bedrooms, but how do you control children without whooping them (and having them taken away for abuse) or discipline children who know exactly what they are doing wrong and still continue to do it. Consequences don't phase them.

difficult child#1 is having problems at school - all behavior related. Half of time he won't do work in class, and won't bring home either. It's too easy for him (we just moved into a new district but in same area). I feel like he needs to be moved to another school for gifted kids, but yet his behavior doesn't warrant this. He does well when he receives positive reinforcement (who doesn't - ), and when he feels needed and appreciated in the classroom. He has already had detention twice, and today makes the third time. We did a behavior plan, but he has broken that already also. difficult child#2 is having better year so far, but his mouth gets him in trouble all the time. Has already been suspended from Boys & Girls Club (BGC), and so has difficult child#1.

difficult child#1 tested my nerves today running out the house and down the street like he was grown, and telling me "NO". I called the police. Husband was at work, and I am tired of the disrespect.

I am caught between a rock because they know better - they can tell you what they did wrong and why. They can tell you what a better choice would've been. It's so difficult to understand why they can't do what they are supposed to, but yet realize that if they do have a disorder it is the disorder that is holding them back.

Had to vent. So frustrating to want to give them the world, but feel like you can't because their behavior doesn't warrant it.

 

[timer lady]

Mom of twins here ~ beautiful symbiotic little creatures aren't they? Enough to drive a good woman to drink.

Have you ever read the Love & Logic books? I know the first book advised here is The Explosive Child (it is an extremely good book) however with my twins love & logic worked. There is a sense of competition between our children that is intense. Love & Logic offers ideas; gives our difficult children choices that "we" can live with & lets them play it out.

I learned early with kt & wm to wear timer's (one for each child) on my collars (hence my board name). One timer wasn't enough when it came to transition time & calling the tweedles in for dinner or bedtime.

I learned early on to offer kt or wm popcorn or pretzels for snack, shower or bath, cereal or toast, coat or sweat, etc. Things were on my terms however they got to choose. The tweedles began to have a sense of control over their needs & such & therefore began to calm down.

Early on, I had to teach my difficult children that they were their own person ~ what one did or had, didn't have a thing to do with the other. If one needed new shoes, the other didn't. If one needed to go the doctor, the other didn't., etc.

My kt is a runner; nothing more frustating or frightening. I cannot offer much other than to get a crisis plan in place for when your difficult child attempts this again.

Bottom line, you are mom. You know in your heart what your difficult children need. They may have diagnosis's & such. But you know what consequences will make an impact; what rewards will make your difficult child smile & want to please you & follow the rules. Tdocs can make valid suggestions, but they have to work in your home, with the personalities that live there.

I hope we can help you with your day to day frustrations; with your questions. There is a tremendous group of parents here who will support you, give you a shoulder to lean on & an ear for listening.

 

[BusynMember]

I would have them re-evaluated. They sound like (although I can't diagnose) they could have Aspergers Syndrome, which is high functioning autism, and that would explain both why they are so smart and why they are so difficult. NeuroPsychs are the best diagnosticians. They test for hours on every single level. You won't get that from a regular therapist. I'm guessing this is more than just ADD and I'd want to make sure the kids were checked out head to toe. NeuroPsychs can be found in university hospitals and children's hospitals, and can really help you understand your children. I don't think punishments will change them.

Here is a link explaining Aspergers. These kids are very literal, but don't understand other people and often seem to lack "empathy" and tend to be socially clueless:
http://www.aspergersyndrome.org/
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/

 

[kamtwins]

Thank you by the way - for the responses and thoughts. They saw P-Dr for first time today. difficult child#1 wouldn't hardly respond to questions. difficult child#2 started talking, but when Dr hit a nerve both covered faces and completely shut down. He diagnosis ADHD and started Concerta.

After visit case manager from CPS called stating they can't give ref so P-Dr visit will be covered but now want a psychiatric evaluation. Why didn't they do this in the first place? It took me to take control of things. Husband not happy about medications - thinks they can work it out some other way.

It could be Aspergers - I'm going to read up on it. Thanks -

Yes, I've always tried to give them choices since they were born. They do tend to choose what the other does . . . but every once in awhile they surprise me. With our schedules it is difficult to give them "seperate" time with my husband and myself. At least they are seperated at school.

difficult child#1 had another "blow up" today at school. Teacher gave those sitting in their seats candy - and of course, he didn't get any. Kids were teasing him because of this, and he threw books at 2 kids. Also tore up referral paper and teacher's wreath of some sort. Principal supposed to contact us (another meeting within less than a week). Most likely suspended, but hopefully in-school so he can keep up.

Do other husbands question about their kids having a disorder, or do they understand? The negative punishment doesn't make things better. The talks they've heard a million times before. Taking things away doesn't work - husband worried about stigma - but I just want them to have help.

 

[SRL]

When you say they're super smart, what exactly are you seeing in terms of skills and/or interests?

Did they when they were younger--or do they now--line up toys or other objects in straight lines or formations?

 

[kamtwins]

No I'm the one who lines up objects! Most of their intelligence is their thought processes and how they are able to come up with ideas, and answer questions with responses that some adults can't even grasp.

 

[navineja]

First of all, welcome! You will find many great ideas and a lot of comfort on this site. It has helped me to cope just knowing that there are so many others that can empathize with what we deal with.
We also have twins (girls, age 7). Both are ADHD and one is ODD. I personally wanted to avoid medications if possible. After a LOT of research, we began to give the girls a daily combination of magnesium, omega 3-6-9's and B12, as well as using the Bach flower remedies. I am not 100% sure which of this combo is doing the job, or if it is all of it working together, but we have had tremendous success! (I am not advocating any particular form of treatment- just sharing our story.) This is not to say that we do not still have problems with behavior, but we no longer have to endure daily temper tantrums or screaming fits that last for hours or daily uncontrollable defiance. The boundaries are still tested occasionally and anger still rises to the surface for the ODD child. However, these remedies have helped in that she is able to use the "tools" that she has (counting to 10, deep breathing, etc) to calm down most of the time. As for the ADHD, both girls have improved in their ability to focus and comprehend schoolwork.
You can also look on the Natural Treatments section of this board for more info from others. Hope this helps and hang in there! You will hear from many others with older children who will tell you that over time this can get better.

Naomi