easy child has "come out" and now I have some questions...

Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by lovemysons, Jul 2, 2008.

  1. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    Hi all,
    I recently posted in Sub Abuse forum about my daughter's new revelation that she "likes boys and girls" and now has a girlfriend. She DID have a boyfriend for about a year and a half up until a few months ago.

    I have consulted with one of my gay friends (from AA) and she posed any interesting point to me that I am still bothered by...she asked me if I thought there was something about husband's and my relationship that may have caused easy child to feel more comfortable/safe in a relationship with another girl rather than a boy. I don't know what to think of this.

    My marriage is very "old school" traditional. I stayed home and raised the kids, husband worked, coached football, etc. husband is a Homophob and easy child's "coming out" has caused alot of friction in the home life situation recently...not easy child's fault, just husband see's homosexuality as perverse, going against G-d, etc. He is really not handling this well at all and easy child is angry at dad for his attitudes.

    I talked with my hairdresser last week about all of this and he said that girls are more "sensual than sexual". My concern was overnight stays between easy child and her new friends. He said with boys it could turn into an orgy but with girls it probibly would not.

    Anyway....what do you all think about my relationship with husband contributing to easy child "coming out". I know this is probibly a bit contraversial even my hairdresser said that he believes it is not strickly genetic but goes both ways..."a sexual preference as well as genetic".

    Am wondering too, how many of your husbands are "homophobs" like mine. Has anyone else had a child '"ome out" and admit their new sexual preference to you"?

    I despise the judgementalness coming from my husband on easy child. He is taking it all too personally...as if easy child did this to him "knowing how he has felt about homosexuality her whole life".

    Also wanted to share some pics of my new grandbaby Joey with those of you who haven't seen him yet...http://www.flickr.com/photos/13271215@N05/

    Thanks ahead of time for your thoughts...this is really difficult for our family right now since I am on "easy child's side" and husband is "out in the weeds" though he says I am.

    lovemysons...and my daughter too!
     
  2. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Tammy,

    I don't really know you and I wanted to respond after your last post on your SA thread, but I didn't know how. I have to say that I am glad that you raised this question because after you talked of your husband's need to control one of my first thoughts is that easy child is possibly looking for something entirely different from what she sees at home. That easy child offered to give you money if husband cut off your money really hit me. She feels like she needs to protect you.

    I agree with your hairdresser. While I absolutely think that sexual preference is genetic, I've always felt that women could go both ways much easier than men. For the same reason that your hairdresser stated...women are more about intimacy than sexuality.

    Those were just the thoughts I had and I didn't want to offend you so I didn't know how to respond. From the way you talk of easy child, she is a good person with a good head on her shoulders. It's unfortunate that husband can't see past his intolerance. I wish I had some advice on that, but I don't. I think you're doing the right thing in supporting your daughter and staying firm in your beliefs. You can't force husband to change his beliefs. Hopefully, with time he will come around. This is new to him and he may need time to adjust. I hope he doesn't take too long.

    (((hugs)))
     
  3. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Tammy...

    Ok...I am going to reveal something many may not know about me ...gulp...I consider myself bi but I am in a monogamous relationship with Tony now. I have had several relationships with women over the years. I tend to agree that women are more sensual or intimate than purely sexual. Women tend to look for that closeness before they act on the physical feelings.

    I can understand your husband being freaked but he needs to get over it. She is still his daughter. Maybe I am lucky but Tony is not afraid of this subject and wouldnt freak out if any of our kids had turned out this way. We have friends of all sorts of preferences. Trying to change her will only push her away. If she is bi...she may end up with either a woman or a man in the long run. There is no way to tell now. If this is just an experimentation now, well that may run its course too. Shunning her is the worst thing one can do.

    My very first girlfriend ...her parents ended up putting her in a mental hospital to "fix her" from being gay. To say that she is still not right is putting it mildly.

    Oh...I firmly believe orientation is fixed at birth. Or maybe even before birth.
     
  4. Steely

    Steely Active Member

    I have thought about this topic extensively, as my difficult child told me he was gay a couple of years ago. In addition, my sister was married ten years, and then decided she was bi, got divorced, and began a relationship with a woman.

    I have thought a lot about whether as a single mom I contributed to my son being gay. One of my Christian moms thinks that it is an inappropriate relationship between mother and son that causes a child to become gay. After much thought, and research, I find that fact to be primarily false. There may be attributing, complicating factors along the way in childhood that could possibly mold a desire for one gender or another, specifically child abuse. But for a child to decide they like one gender or another just because I am a single mom, or because we are not the perfect parents, is not logical. I think most of this is hardwired.

    Certainly in my sister's case - as Janet said - she could go either way. The love she felt was all about the essence and soul of that person, not the gender. Perhaps women are more able to see love more universally than men.

    As far as a dad being a jack nut over homosexuality. Sadly that is exactly what happened with difficult children dad. Once he told his dad he was gay, his dad "said" he was fine with it - but would make stereotypical slanderous comments about men who were gay - or make judgments, and now........difficult child is silent. He will not talk to me or anyone about who he may interested in. It is sad.

    Men seem to deal with this all so differently. My dad also claims that he has no issue with people that are gay - and yet he makes crummy little judgemental remarks all of the time about homosexuals. He continually brings up my sister being gay. Constantly. And now that she is dead, he talks about whether her lesbianism lifestyle caused her to become mentally unstable.

    I think both my dad and difficult children dad believe in their heads that it is OK, but their upbringing and hearts are protesting what they logically believe.

    As Moms, I think we intrinsically just want what is best for our children, and are able to allow that to supercede any biases we may have had.

    To answer your question. No, you are not to blame.
    However, in my opinion, husband's insecurity about this, could cause easy child to take what was simply experimentation, and fun, and make it into a lifelong drama, because now dad has tried to contain, condemn, and restrain her sexual being. It then makes her sexuality forbidden, dangerous, and rebellious, rather than being allowed to travel its normal course and pathway.
     
  5. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    Wyntersgrace,
    Thank you for the hug and am looking forward to getting to know you better...you are very insightful. Yes, I think easy child was being protective of me. She is a caregiver.

    I hope husband doesn't take too long to adjust either...Next week we will spend at a bowling tournament in Michigan for easy child. husband was easy child's highschool bowling coach the past 2 years and he is very active with her and her bowling in leagues and tournaments. It will be interesting to here how many subtle little messeges that may be exchanged between easy child and her father over this next week. Hugs back to you.

    Janet....I just adore your candor. You have always been shameless and so open and honest about yourself your life etc.
    Well, since you're giving us a bit more revealing look at yourself, I will too, smile.
    LOL...when I suggested to husband the other day that this may all just be experimentation he was like "OH, so we have options...Have YOU ever experimented with women?" LOL...I had to admit "Yes I have". Of course I was a young girl then and perhaps because of my bipolar was also "Hypersexual" but I did decide by the age of 14 that boys were it for me. It was totally unexpected for husband to hear me admit to my own experimentation, lol. I did tell easy child about this too. Hoping that she would feel comforted in knowing some of my "truth".

    I don't know if it's based at birth or not....I don't know if husband's and my relationship has contributed, maybe it's a combination of both, maybe easy child will settle on a male after all down the road and MAYBE husband's attitudes will help decide ultimately...I don't know.

    by the way, husband tells me that the reason he made the comment (I spoke of in Sub Abuse Forum) about my decison making being in question is because of my "mental problems". Because I had Bipolar Psychosis in Feb of 2007 and had to be hospitalized. I now take Abilify and have not had an incident since that time, in fact, I feel more emotionally levelled and balanced than I ever have in my life. But husband holds that against me...he is NOT a caregiver, by the way.

    How sad that your first girlfriends parents wanted to fix her by sending her to a hospital. easy child was at first concerned that we may "kick her out" because she had talked to some of her new gay friends about their parents behaviors upon learning of their daughters at least one was kicked out of her home and then when allowed to come back home was shunned by family members.
    Another was sent to a boarding school upon "coming out" ...of course my husband sarcastically asked where this boarding school was, the name of it, etc

    If it were not for AA and Al Anon and the psychotic break I had ect I would not be nearly as "enlightend" as I am today. I felt shame when I "experimented" as a young person afterward, today, knowing so many great people who are gay, I have come to terms with it. I have questioned religion too because of my Psychotic break last year and have really struggled with that one knowing that I may have been deemed "Possessed" etc just 200 years ago. It's so sad when something is scary and unknown to others that they want to destroy it.
    I hope my husband does not seek to destroy the relationship between he and our daughter.

    Hugs,
    Tammy
     
  6. Fran

    Fran Former Site Owner

    Tam, what about all the chaos the boys brought? Don't you think this may have made some hostility and anxiety in easy child? Did husband stop his son's from sleep overs? The boys pretty much did what they wanted, when they wanted and with who they wanted. Nothing deterred them.

    easy child is too young for a sexual relationship of any sexual preference. You wouldn't let her have a sleep over to her hetero boyfriend, why would you allow a sleep over with her gay girlfriend? On the other hand, sex happens to almost everyone. We can teach abstinence and self control but nature has a way of pushing forward regardless.

    It's unfortunate that husband is making this all about him and his feelings. On the other hand, easy child may be experimenting and after the boys this is probably the only adolescent rebellion left for her try that the boys didn't do.

    I can't make suggestions since I don't walk in your shoes but once my kids are over the age of consent and not living with me, who they sleep with will not be my business. If they are happy and responsible then I'll be happy.

    Your easy child isn't to that age or stage of life. in my humble opinion.
     
  7. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    TMc -

    HI THERE kiddo. Long time no talky. Fingers broke? lol. ahem.

    You know - no one makes a person gay. No upbringing or surroundings "make or force" anyone to change their sexual preference from what's considered normal male-female relationship.

    And Janet - um, knew it. No surprises, you're a very loving person.

    I grew up around a lot of gay people. (We showed dogs). The lifestyle of men/men made my dad uncomfortable. My Mom figured if you weren't coming on to her she was fine with it. Very much a too each his own sort of thinker.

    At one time due to the abuse when he was little I considered that Dude may be gay. We talked about it in therapy and while our therapist is faith based - his reaction to the entire situation was very cool. Another hate the sin and not the sinner type thinker -and also too each his own.

    I know for a fact it is NOT how you raise a child because if it were? I think all the gay marriage couples I knew who adopted kids would have kids that were gay especially after being raised in a gay household. And they are not.

    It's an old question you know - are they born or do they learn it? I see a lot of ads in newspapers that say Bi-curious. And maybe at this point? That's what she is - Bi-curious. The fact that she felt comfortable enough about her own self to come out and tell you? THAT speaks more to her personality and character than the stigma of being "gay". She's self assured, she's confident, she's a kid - she's maybe not gay maybe curious. Hard to tell.

    As far as your husband and your relationship and the **** that it has endured being the "cause" of your daughter seeking out a woman for a relationship? Not likely. Does she feel safer with a woman? Well honey let me tell you - there's just as much domestic violence in same sex relationships as there are single sex relationships. I had a friend that used to tease me saying after my divorce I should really just give up on men and find a good woman - and I said - If I dont' get myself straight in my mind NO relationship will ever work out man or woman. And then added "And besides after seeing the choices I make for partners? A woman would probably beat me too." (lol)

    Actually Mom - there is NOTHING you can do about this at all but try to understand that it is HER life and HER choices. And FYI - not every person that is gay gives out good advice. Just because she's gay doesn't make her an expert on relationships. And while your hairdresser may have some insight on the feelings, if you want to know about whats going on with your daughter? Ask HER.

    You should sit down and ask your daughter and give her support. In 10 years - this wont matter to anyone as HER life will be 10 years older and hers, just as much as it is NOW.

    And the baby Joey ? OMG could just pinch his cheeks! WHAT a georgeous baby!

    Miss ya - thanks for thinking of us -
    Star not gay and not homophobic. lol
     
  8. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I agree. And Janet said it well, too ... if this is just an experiment, it may run its course.

    I also agree with-Wintersgrace, that your daughter is trying to protect you.

    Sigh.
    {{hugs}}
     
  9. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    There really is a huge difference between those who experiment or are bi or are truly homosexual. Those that are homosexual have as little "choice" in their sexual leanings as we do in hair and skin color -- we can disguise to some degree if we choose, but the basics are always with us.

    If you're bi, the odds are it is not genetic. It is an acceptance of sexuality -- yours and others. Some are comfortable going either way, some do it out of curiosity, some do it because they can. Their choice, their life.

    If your daughter truly has no sexual feelings towards boys, it is more than likely genetic and there isn't a darn thing she nor you nor your husband can do about it. She may sublimate it -- the boy she was dating for awhile may have simply been a try to conform. Hopefully, she will embrace it and truly accept what she is. Being does not preclude children, a good career or any of the stuff we dream about for our kids -- it just makes their social life a little more difficult. Your husband is not the only one who feels homosexuality is a perversion, against nature, etc. To my mind, the ones who should be ashamed are not the ones who practice the gay lifestyle but rather those who shun those who do.

    Now, it is possible your daughter is doing it as a form of rebellion or to get something missing in her home life. From everything you have said about her in the past, however, this doesn't sound right for her. Through all your family has gone through, she has been the who has best survived all of it -- she has lived her life regardless of her brothers or your illnesses. She has loved and been close to her father, so why would she do something to risk losing that love? I'm sure he has voice his opinion more than once in front of her.

    So, from what you have said both about her past boy friend and their relationship, her relationship with her father, her relationship with you, even her inner strength, I would guess she is gay because she is gay (i.e., genetic) and not because of her home life. To come out in high school takes incredible strength and courage. There are much easier ways to get through school.

    I wish her the very best. She is going to need a lot of support. I hope your husband can get through his prejudices to see that she is still a remarkable young lady of whom he should be extremely proud. She's going to need him, too.
     
  10. amazeofgrace

    amazeofgrace New Member

    I think all you can do is to remain supportive. I 1/2 wonder if it's not an experimental/trend decision (Linsey Lohan has been in the press quite a bit lately). Time will tell. All you can do is love her and H will have to deal with it. Here is a website you may find helpful. I am a christian who has come under fire for having Gay friends. Unconditional love is the only advice I have.

    http://www.barbaraspatulajohnson.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=42&Itemid=70
     
  11. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I think this is about your friend, and that your friend is pretty screwed up if she's gay and she thinks that bad marriages cause gayness. Did your parent's marriage cause you to be heterosexual?

    Your daughter is a human being, with genetics that give her certain hair color and eye color and sexual orientation. Sometimes this is just experimenting, sometimes coming out as "bi" is a way to soften the blow that they really are gay. Sometimes people are bisexual.

    If you love your daughter, please don't let this get in your way. Unless someone is getting physically harmed or is an unwilling participant, you don't want to know about whatever it is that she does in bed with her sexual partner. It would creep you out. Just like your sex with your husband creeps everyone else out. (If they're normal! ;) ) Just love her, and be patient with your husband. If push comes to shove, ignore him and tell your daughter to do so as well. She's old enough to make up her own mind about this, and this isn't something he gets to judge her on. Especially if he doesn't want her to make a big long ordeal out of it if she's only testing limits or experimenting with it.
     
  12. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Well, this is an interesting thread! I had to smoke a cigarette and drink a beer and think about some things. LOL!


    LMS- I think you are definitely handling things the right way with your daughter and husband is being a - well, he really could make it difficult for her to find her own identity in a healthy way, but hopefully, your support will compensate for his actions.

    That part, I didn't have to think about.

    And no, I don't think any certain type of marriage can "cause" this. If a traditional marriage works for you, then be happy with it. There were generations where most marriages were that way and the majority of people weren't gay, right?

    I spent time in the military- there were many gay women. I did my experimenting, too. My hang-up, I guess, is when it comes to my difficult child being raised in a household by a gay couple. But, (this is the part I had to think about)- I don't think it is quite that cut-and-dry. I never really cared who was gay or not, I've had friends that were and weren't and never "condemned" my brother because he is. I went out of my way to encourage my son to have a relationship with his uncle. But, my brother has a LOT of wierd hang-ups. He did have a lot of horrible facts to accept as a child and he always had a different side to him as a child- and still does. I'm not talking a side like effeminate- I'm saying a true hatred and evilness toward women- except not toward our grandmother- who raised him from the time he was 8 yo. Anyway, a long time ago, I had the converstaion with a friend that I grew up with. She knew both me and my bro from the time we were really young. She said it was odd- most people are born with a tendency, or sexual preference, if you will. But she said with my bro., it's like he never got over something and he lives this way because he can't face his issues. I swear, in his case, I do believe that is true. My bro really thinks weird- and desparately needs counseling but would probably rather die than to admit it because the pain of facing what he is in denial about would kill him. His resentment toward me is astronomical- but it isn't just me- and there is a lot to the story. Anyway...

    I had told my bro a long time ago that even if he wasn't gay, I do not think he would be the best person to raise difficult child if something happened to me or if difficult child ever couldn't live at home. But I have to honestly say, I think it would cause difficult child to have more struggles in his life (mainly- identity and confusion) if he were raised by any gay couple right now. I don't think I would be so concerned if difficult child had past the age of finding his own self (not just sexual identity- but who HE wants to be) and if difficult child had resolved a lot of these difficult child issues. (A lot of difficult child's issues are due to his father never acknowledging him, seeing him, or even speaking to him.) I honestly do believe that under circumstances like this, the lifestyle of the people raising you can help shape the choices you make and the way you view yourself. I just don't think difficult child could handle going to sleep at night across the hall from a bedroom of 2 gay men in bed together right now. Actually, difficult child has told me himself that he WOULD NOT live that way. And, I used to like my bro's significant other. But I'll be d**medication if he is going to replace me as difficult child's mother, Know what I mean???

    So, I hope that doesn't make me phobic about it. I would prefer that difficult child grow up, get married, never have anymore problems, have 2.5 kids and live in a house with a white picket fence, and all of us get along all of the time!! I will accept him and love him, even if (OKAAAY- WHEN) that doesn't happen. There are worse things that we as parents could have to adjust to.

    So, that is my thinking for the night!!
     
  13. LittleDudesMom

    LittleDudesMom Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Tammy,

    good to hear from you again.

    I come from a family that definately brings the "genetic" factor of homosexuality to bear. My father had a son, my brother, who is gay. His older brother had a daughter, my cousin, who is a lesbian. His younger brother has a daughter, my cousin, who is also a lesbian. Three brothers in the family and each of them with a homosexual child. Genetics? Pretty good argument for it.

    As far as your daughter goes, my opinion is two-fold. First I have to think about all stress, drama, and trama that she grew up with. The boys really turned everyone's life upside down, numerous times. She could not have survived without some scars. Part of me says this is just teen rebellion or the discovery of comfort and acceptance by a new group of friends.

    Either way, I believe she doesn't need analyzation, or mom's bi stories, or the opinion of a lesbian woman who feels your marriage is the reason your daughter is gay. She needs to be treated exactly how she was before she told you. No deep discussions unless she instigates them.

    As far as your husband is concerned, he's dealing with a double whamy. He's dealing with his baby's sexuality and he's dealing with homosexuality.

    Most men don't react well to their daughter's development into a sexual being. It's not something they think about when they think of their "little girl". I think mother's deal better with both their daughter's and their son's sexual sides.

    So, not only is your husband faced with the fact that his daughter is sexually aware, but he's also dealing with her statement that she is gay.

    In regards to the sleep over, I must whole-heartedly agree with Fran. Your daughter is too young to be sexually active with a boy or a girl. She has just turned 16. She should not be allowed to go to a multi-sex sleepover any more than a sleepover with lesbians who are sexally active, especially if your daughter believes she is gay.

    I think this bowling trip may be a good thing for all. If there were anything to say to your husband, it would be, "honey, she's still our daughter and is the same child she was before she told us. We just need to love her and allow her the time and space to work this out on her own. The worse thing we can do right now is lecture, we just need to live and love as a familly."

    Tammy, you are not dealing with issues that don't happen every day all over the world. A loving and strong family will always find a way.

    Keep your eyes on your daughter and make sure she is making wise choices in all her relationships. Try your best to make sure that husband and your daughter don't engage in the sexual disussion right now. He needs time and she needs time.

    Ultimately, he is the adult and he is responsible for his relationship with his daugher. If he alienates her, he will have to deal with the consequences. It's way too early in this new development for any ultimatums or decisions.

    Just my two cents as a member of a family who has dealt with this issue multiple times.

    Sharon
     
  14. lovemysons

    lovemysons Well-Known Member

    Thank you all for the support and so many thoughtful reply's.

    I wish I had time to address each one of you but I'm pressed at this point to get many things wrapped up on the homefront for our departure to Michigan tomorrow.

    One thing I will tell you all is that easy child asked me to put her on birth control last year. She said it was to control acne and regulate her periods. I did not question her. And, of course, husband had a rough time with her being on birth control too.

    It will be an interesting week with husband and easy child. I will let you all know how it goes.
    Thank you again, lots to think about.

    Hugs and love,
    Tammy
    PS...husband is not allowing easy child to spend the night with any girl ever again.
     
  15. mstang67chic

    mstang67chic Going Green

    I would suggest contacting the parents and friends of gay and lesbian ( www.pflag.org ) and see if there is someone in your area you could talk to.

    As for your friend who made the remark about correlations between your marriage and easy child's orientation? in my humble opinion, I think that's a crock. If that were the case, I would be in a drunken, drug induced abusive marriage.

    Whether easy child is truly bi or just experimenting, I think you and her need to keep communication open. Things are more open today than they were when we were her age. That can be a double sided blade though. Her friends/peers may be more accepting but that also opens her up to attitudes like she's already getting from your husband. (Who in my opinion, should probably speak to someone at Pflag himself.) To me, who you are attracted to is completely ingrained. Trying to control or change it would be like trying to change your taste in anything else. Don't like Broccoli? Eat it enough and you'll get used to it. You still won't love it, but you get used to it. Different I know, but same concept. Just because you do what's "expected" of you, doesn't mean you like it.

    husband definately needs to get his head on straight. Does he have to be happy with the idea? Not at all. But, if this is truly the path easy child has chosen to go down, he will lose her completely if he keeps this up. (And by chosen, I mean that she has chosen to act on her feelings rather than follow the so called norm) I do have to admit though, I had to chuckle (and would have loved to have seen his face) when you truthfully answered his "have YOU experimented" question!
     
  16. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Hi Tammy,

    Your husband needs to get over it. BUT in his defense I think it's very difficult for a Dad to accept that his daughter is gay. I know my husband would be very sad although he would accept her lifestyle and love her just the same. But in his heart of hearts he would grieve a little also.

    Hopefully your husband will talk to someone and do some reading and come to terms with this. Forbidding her to sleep over any girl's house is not going to change it.

    Continue your unconditional love and acceptance and maybe some of it will rub off on husband.

    Nancy
     
  17. Abbey

    Abbey Spork Queen

    Well, this is an interesting thread! I had to smoke a cigarette and drink a beer and think about some things. LOL!

    I'm dying laughing.

    I can't add to what has been said. All great advice.

    I couldn't pass judgement on my kid's choices. Sometimes it's a phase...sometimes it's a life choice. I'd still love them whatever happened.

    Abbey
     
  18. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    lms you've got one adorable grandbaby there, and I hope you're not hanging out here so much cuz you've been spoiling the daylights outta him. lol

    husband needs to get a clue and quick before he creates some serious damage in his relationship with daughter. Doesn't matter if in the long run what daughter's sexual preference happens to be. This is the lasting sort of damage that an I'm sorry really doesn't fix well. (if at all)

    A child wants / needs to know their parents love them unconditionally. Period.

    husband has a right to his feelings. He can object to the whole gay issue all he wants. Just not object to daughter, not judge daughter. Agree to disagree would be best. Maybe he'll get used to it in time, maybe he won't have to.

    My kids know it makes no never mind to me what their sexual preference is. I mean, c'mon.....I'm not in bed with them, so what do I care??

    Do you think perhaps husband would be more open to the fact that he can still love his daughter even though he disagrees with the behavior? I'm not trying to take sides, but husband is who he is, and forcing the issue most likely isn't going to be the answer. But maybe if you could get him to see that he can seperate her decision from the way he loves her then he can eventually be eased into acceptance.

    I know I tend to dig my heels in deeper when I feel someone is trying to force me into accepting something I feel is wrong.

    As for the whole sleepover thing. Well, I know how I was with my kids as teens. If my girls were gay and wanted to sleep over at a girl's house my answer would be no. Doesn't matter if it's a girl or a guy, if you're sexually attracted to them you don't need to play with fire, so to speak. (hope that makes sense)

    (((hugs)))
     
  19. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Tammy, you've had some really good advice. I'm also with all those who say that ANY sexual relationship should wait until you are mature enough emotionally to handle it. Sexual orientation is irrelevant here.

    THAT SAID - if she is going to insist on having sex (and at 16, she will not be in the minority -sorry, folks, just being realistic) then the least you can do is try to keep her safe, sensible and not hurt too badly.

    I was raised Christian, also we're still a fairly religious family. However, I do not judge people for their sexual orientation. Love is love. Homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle of choice. I USED to be very judgmental, before I worked things out for myself. All I had been doing was parroting the public point of view that I had been presented with. I had absolutely no idea. Once I DID find out more, learn more, talk to people - I changed my tune.

    I've also studied science, physiology etc. and worked with doctors. So I've looked at the medical/genetic side of things. husband & I have talked openly about these topics and have pretty much the same view on things. A TV program I remember seeing decades ago was called "Brain Sex". There was also a book released at the same time - I nearly bought a copy. Wish I had, now.
    (I just found a few links to the book - here's the Wikipedia one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_Sex)

    The gist of what I have learned over the years - sexual orientation is NOT genetic, but is IS congenital. By this, I mean you are born with it, but it's not programmed directly into your genes. rather, it is programmed into the developing embryonic brain by a combination of developing hormones from the baby, and hormonal influence from the mother during pregnancy. (So in a way, it IS your mother's fault!)

    It has been found in rats for sure (not certain about other species - I suspect it has been found in others too, though) that when the mother is stressed to a certain level at a certain point during pregnancy, her hormonal output changes. How much this changes, and for how long, can influence the developing brain of her baby to a varying extent. Among the things affected can be the cells in the brain that are responsible for a person being switched this way or that way. I believe degree of intensity of sexual programming is also affected via similar mechanisms.

    This means that not only your sexual orientation, but also the degree of intensity of your sexual drive, is influenced and programmed in, in utero.

    This explains how a person can be intensely sexual, whether interested in only males, or only females, or anything with a pulse. Or a person can be technically bisexual, but frankly couldn't give a hoot about sex with anyone much, they'd rather read a book.

    Similarly, someone can be highly sexed and heterosexual only. You get the spectrum of sexual orientation as well as the spectrum of intensity of sexual desire.

    Sexual desire CAN be influenced hormonally through your life - I think we've all heard examples (or experienced it). it can also be influenced socially.

    Sexual orientation - nowhere near so much.

    Examples of people who have managed to "give up" homosexuality, I find spurious in most cases. Sometimes the social pressure on the person is so strong that they choose celibacy and lies rather than continue living in a homosexual relationship and risk exposure. Or maybe, they just choose lies.
    In some cases, it is always possible that a person was not so obligate a homosexual as they thought, so underneath there is the possibility of bisexuality; so they could apparently "switch" or "be cured" and enter into a monogamous heterosexual relationship and thereby win back approval from family.

    But - whatever. And I mean that in the Aussie way, not the US, rolling eyes teen way. I mean - que sera sera.

    How much of this applies to lesbians compared to homosexual men? I think pretty much the same. I view the vast majority of homosexuals (if not all) as "obligate" homosexuals. No choice in the matter. It's how they were made, prenatally.

    Those who seem to have choice - possibly it's pre-programmed bisexuality. Or maybe someone very broad-minded but given to experimentation (although if so, surely there is an inborn bisexual latency there in such a case?).

    I remember when at uni, our drama group performed a musical which had a strong tolerance message. A straight lead actor was playing a male homosexual, and wanted to "get into" his character. He chose to go home with one of the other, gay, performers to see what it was like. I do not know the outcome of the experiment, only that a great deal of alcohol was needed and STILL the experiment was uncertain. The lead actor remained heterosexual - he was good friends with everybody, but never chose to experiment like that again, while I knew him anyway.
    My own view was that it was bad science - the hypothesis was flawed, the experimental method even more so (and before people disapprove too much, this was pre-HIV, back in the permissive 70s).

    From the gay people I have known (and a few 'came out' during that production) - even the lesbians said they never felt anything other than lesbian. A few had slept with blokes, mostly to try to prove that they weren't lesbian. One friend of husband's & mine grew up in the church but always knew there was something "wrong". She thought she could overcome it with prayer, then realised she couldn't. She hid it for a long time but finally had to accept that it was how she was made and to be glad for it. By then she was the most together person we knew; happy to be who she was in every aspect of her life. She was also a singer/songwriter who wrote a song based on a church billboard she had seen. It was "Turn Right, Go Straight". In the song she says she "didn't wake up until the age of 23." She finishes the song with "But right was not the way that my thinking mind was leaning, and straight has never really been my style."

    My kids grew up singing her songs. It also meant they grew up with a social conscience of which I am proud.

    Tammy, you need to love your daughter. It sounds like you do. I hope things are going OK for you this weekend in Michigan.

    As for husband - well, he's a bloke. They have weird hangups when it comes to their daughter being sexually active, and they have HUGE hangups about homosexuality. Why, I just don't know. Think about it - we women go for Pap smears and breast checks. OK, they're not pleasant, they feel invasive - but we do it because good health practice demands it. But have you heard how much fuss blokes make when they have to get ANYTHING put inside their rear end? I remember my father getting all hung up about a proctoscopic exam. And I've heard blokes I worked with, complaining about their wives making them go to the doctor and that weird medico apparently getting his jollies by giving them a rectal exam.

    Blokes will run a mile rather than have a rectal exam, unless they're really, strongly, pushed into it. And yet we women are far more tolerant. I do think it connects in with homophobia at an almost latent level.

    husband is less homophobic than most Aussie blokes. When he left home to share a student place, he moved in with a couple of blokes who turned out to be gay, and partners. husband's reaction was, "As long as nobody makes a pass at me, I don't mind what you do with each other." He & I were already engaged at that point. OK, husband did get one obscene phone call (a friend, checking out the possibility) but was cool with it.

    And yet - we have raised one son at least, who has hangups.

    That's why I am beginning to think that blokes are born homophobic, at least to a certain extent. Society can then impose a great deal more bias and prejudice on their developing brains, but even when you try to be open-minded, your sons can still be nervous around proctologists!

    So give husband some time, easy child needs to also give him a bit of space with this just as she would need to if she were "coming out" as sexually active (and heterosexual).

    At least one thing should make husband feel more comfortable - easy child isn't going to get pregnant any time soon. If/when she does, you can be fairly sure it will be a planned pregnancy!

    Marg
     
  20. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Hi.
    Although all sexual relationships are better put on hold, as many of us know, kids can become sexually active without our permission and even without sleepovers. They are quite creative that way...lol. I"ll bet many of US also found ways...lol.
    I think your gay friend is filled with guilt or needs a scapegoat. There is no factual evidence that your home life determines your sexual orientation. About 10% of the human race will be gay. It's the same with dogs, cats, horses etc...some are gay. Some kids date in a straight way to try to deny who they are. Heck, some gay adults marry and have kids to try to be "normal."
    As for the homophobe thing, I think it's really common with men. It is also harder to accept if you are ultra-religious as you are taught this is a "sin." I think that's all a crock, and am glad you're just accepting your daughter. However, her sexual orientation evolves, she is a good young lady who deserves to be treated as such, and you're doing a good job. Your hub sounds VERY controlling. Did you say that he doesn't even want you to post here? Frankly, if my hub didn't "want" me to post here, I'd cut him a new one...lol. You're an adult and you can do what you want to do. And your daughter is almost there--at 18 she is able to do what she wants. Control freaks in my opinion make terrible partners. Take care :) You're doing great.
     
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