easy child's moving on sat.

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Jena, Apr 12, 2011.

  1. Jena

    Jena New Member

    sorry i'm eating up the boards, gotta go somewhere with it........ or i'll explode.

    i feel a little bit calmer right now. i was dreading the talk. it was very calm actually. long story short she's moving out on saturday. i didnt' want difficult child to be here and see it. i told difficult child and easy child did also.

    she said she can't comply with the rules, some other parents taking her in. she wont' tell me who. i'm covered, told school what's going on, have therapists bcking.

    anyway that's that.she said if i keep going to therapy will you pay for it, i said yes i will. she asked can i come over two nights a week for dinner and i want to see difficult child. i said we'll c call me if i'm around.

    she said you aren't going to make this normal? i said normal? there's nothing normal about a 17 year old in your current shape moving out. she said your going to make this as hard as possible aren't you? i said no, we';d love you to stay yet if you can't comply with these rules than your making the choice to leave. we are in no way asking you to leave.

    it's just toxic, we're all hurting and it needs to stop now. she asked are you goign to let me work in the store? i said no we have no rm for you right now. you have to get your own job, we'll cover the financial aid so you can start college if that's what you chose to do.

    so thats' that. no yelling or screaming, or carrying on. she said well sat. should work i have to make some calls and make sure that works. i said no problem. she said can i leave my dresser and bed? i said yes you can.

    she said how can i afford to do anything? i said i dont' know this is your choice your making now you have to figure it out, thats part of the ugly side of being an adult. i told her i love you and if you do change your mind we'll be here, yet only if you can comply with the rules we've written out i'll let you keep them.

    so i'm proud of me i didn't throw up or have a heart attack lol. i stayed calm, didnt' cry she started to water up a bit. giong to take difficult child down road now to get a snack and than i'm going to watch a movie.

    thanks guys without venting here i wouldnt' of been able to handle that talk.
     
  2. shellyd67

    shellyd67 Active Member

    Jena, I do have to say that fact that she asked you how she is going to afford things is a good sign that her wheels are turning.

    I am proud of you and I really think she will see that the grass isn't always greener ....
     
  3. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    Also good that she's at least thinking about continuing therapy.
     
  4. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Well now she's put her big girl panties on hasn't she? Gotta agree with Shelly, but at 17? Be prepared to see her be fine and make it on her own. difficult child and I both left at 16 and did fine. Some of us just do okay with that many years before we can fly.

    Good job on maintaining. Keep up the good work.
     
  5. Jena

    Jena New Member

    yes when i can get past the hurt of some other mother mothering her after all i've done the guilt i have, and not knowing where she is ever and if she's well and safe i'll be great with this.

    it's all in stages like the rest of it. this, than sat. than me getting ok with it so i can be happy and difficult child can thrive.
     
  6. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I'm cautious;y supportive here. The big red flag is that she won't divulge who she is staying with. BIG red flag, because she wants to come visit for dinner, she wants you to keep paying for therapy, so she is openly admitting you are her parent and are responsible for these things. But you SHOULD at least know who she is with so you can liaise in practical matters - collect her for therapy if you are driving past, for example. Drop in her laundry. What reason does she give for not telling you where she is staying? If she is leaving with your support, there should be no reason for secrecy. But you are still legally responsible for her welfare - if she has moved in with Bonnie & Clyde, for example, and you allowed it - where do you stand for the next few weeks?

    When I moved out of home (I was 17) I had my parents' support (cautiously) and they knew where I was, had the phone numbers, drove me there with my stuff, and we arranged for me to ring my dad once a week and come home to visit every weekend. Two years later my parents moved 800 km away with no phone, and support was more difficult especially when I needed major surgery. And I was a easy child (although beginning to really clash badly with my over-protective mother). But always, as far s possible, we knew where each other were (a rule - I had to know where they were, they had to know where I was) and there were fallbacks. I had a sister I could go stay with if I needed. The following year when I was 18 I had to move digs. I'm glad my parents never saw the place I moved into - they would have pulled me out of there, I am sure, if they had known. I should have got out of there much sooner - I put up with it for six months, it was really, really nasty. A crime-ridden, sex-ridden filthy pest-infested, disease-ridden drug-soaked boarding house for the dregs of society. I started to write a book about it but it sounded too unbelievable.

    You should know where she is and you should always be able to get in touch with her. It also goes the other way - if you need to be away from home for any time, you need to let her know where you are going, how you can be contacted and when you expect to be back. These are common courtesy things and not age-related. it is not "So you still treat me like a child!" stuff, it is simply family ensuring that they stay in touch, every way around.

    Marg
     
  7. Jena

    Jena New Member

    marg

    we can only control so much. things here are very bad. it's 3 weeks till her 18th birthday i get your point and i agree. yet the whole reason she's leaving is because she's making our home a living hell and won't comply with anything she's super defiant. i am not giving her my support. i'm simply stating either obide by rules or you have to leave. school and therapist back me up.

    i cant waiver here, i'm sorry it took enough you know what to even have that talk. gotta stay focused and firm and strong on this. i will not be driving her to therapy just mailing check monthly. that's all i'll agree to.

    ok my chest hurts i gotta go take a ride and redirect my mind, sat. is a while away
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
  8. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Jen, prepare yourself. My last post on your other thread- where I said it didn't appear like you were sticking with things very long- ok, let me try to elaborate. When kids are young we look for punishments that are effective, meaning they "force" the kid to change so we get the behavior we are looking for. You say calling the cops (just as an example) in the past didn't get any results. OK, I realize that cops don't do anything until they've been called umpteen times unless a kid has gotten violent or done something really extreme but don't expect anything you do to change your daughter's behavior to make it what you want at this phase in her life. It is highly unlikely that anything you do or don't do will make her behave the way you want her to right now. Putting consequences in place then sticking to them isn't as much to try to get her to change at her age as they are to establish boundaries so you can keep sanity, not give her the impression that she can continue to take over the house, and to not enable her. It won't change her and since she's already figured out that if she acts like your consequences aren't getting to her, you'll change them, you can expect that she'll act like she's fine and sabatoge the things you care about- her going to school, whatever- IOW, she'll raise the stakes while holding out, expecting you to change the consequences. I would strongly sugggest that you don't, even if she quits school or gets arrested. I know it's harder said then done- my son is in Department of Juvenile Justice, younger than yours, and we are only having conversations like this, but I be darned if he's moving back home with me on the same terms of CSU (courts people) and him like we had before. My house. My terms. Period. difficult child wants to raise the stakes- sorry- doesn't work when the whole argument the kid has is that he/she's ready to be on their own and make their own decisions. The quickest way to help them wake up is not to cave when they are crying for money, clothes, food, or anything else. Can you stick to that?

    You can't parent in a healthy manner if you are more dependent on your kids than they are on you- not meaning you depend on them but once your life has revolved around this kind of stuff for so long, it's very hard to jjust let it all go. But no matter what, it won't work for her to live with someone else and treat them the way she's been doing at your house, just like nobody would put up with some of the things my son did the way I did. Will the kid act better and the new "guardian" let them get by with more? Probably. But it won;'t last forever. Don't bail her out if you want her to learn a lesson.
     
  9. Jena

    Jena New Member

    i won't and thanks. i fully understand what i've done here, thats' why i headed to therapist first i had to talk it out, think it thru than act on it. she's already stated can you hire me at rest? NO. phone? NO. can you make me dinner two nights a week? we'll c call me if i'm around. i get the task i've now put into motion....... i do appreciate your wisdom though from your stuff.

    she will be 18 and fact is she can't make it alone which is why she'll be living somewhere else with someone else feeding her etc. it's all bs. as far as school shes already stated she's dropping out. OK I'm sorry to hear that a bad choice in these times a person with-o a hs. diploma goes nowhere fast. sorry to hear that.

    so yea im already practicing it. i'm leaving sat. before she goes. can't handle watching the pack up routine and friends in to get her junk. i'll say my good bye's than make some healthy plans for myself. :)
     
  10. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Jena, I didn't think I needed to say it - you did a really good job bringing this to a head and resolving it (as best as it can be resolved) as calmly as possible. Something had to give and you cannot tolerate what she has been doing. It's bad for you, it's bad for difficult child. And for easy child (although it grates me to refer to her as a easy child - I don't think she is). As for husband - it goes without saying, he is hurting badly.

    Technically, by saying "abide by the rules or leave," you have given her two choices. She has made her choice. This is as a result of you giving her those two options, which implies that both options have your support. If you make it clear that her choosing one of your two options means that she has your limited approval to do one of the two things you asked her to do, then it may be easier to insist on at least knowing where she is staying. For Pete's sake, what reason does she give for not telling you? Is she still trying to pretend she is fleeing an abusive environment? SHE is the abuse! While she continues to insist, "I can't tell you where I will be," then she is still trying to control everything, and this is very unhealthy.

    Check with the cops if it is OK for you to not be told where she is staying. CYA, basically.

    You asked in another thread where you have gone wrong (following implied criticism from someone). What I have observed is that you tend to be reactive rather than proactive. This is understandable - you've had a lot to occupy your mind with difficult child and it is very difficult to keep thinking in all directions and your single-minded child is more able to do this (not being so distracted as you). Other possible mistake - trying to apply a punishment that you cannot apply. For example, saying, "You're grounded" to someone who then still comes and goes as they want to. How do you control someone's movements when they won't be controlled? It is best to not apply such a punishment, than to apply it and fail to be able to follow through. Locking her out when she is late - good consequences. But under the circumstances, too little too late. She shouldn't have left. But of course, how can you stop her? What I'm saying here - if you try to impose a punishment you cannot actually make her comply with, you have set yourself up for failure and an escalation of problems.

    Proactive vs reactive - you took the laptop away. She stole it back by going through your room. HUGE no-no. You took it back and locked your room. She goes through the window. So you needed to lock the window (I assume you did this). You needed to check the place for lockdown before every departure. Also make sure difficult child is not being coerced into helping easy child. Also make sure husband is not unwittingly undermining your attempts by, say, unlocking the window to get some fresh air while he's in te room, then forgetting to lock it when he leaves. If it's a sliding window, you can 'lock' it openable by putting a length of wood or pipe in the track. husband & I have a bedroom window that cannot be opened more than a hand width unless we remove the length of timber - we once had a thief come in through the window while husband was in the next room.

    With situations like this, you need to be able to think ahead and plan ahead. Think before you speak and say, "That does it! You now will have to do X!" if there is a chance that the kid can get out of having to do X.

    You need to always look to your leverage. What MUST you provide? What can you withdraw and keep removed from her? How sure are you that you can ensure she does not take what she is not permitted to? How can you make your rules workable, in other words.

    That's it. And if you could manage all that, you wouldn't need to be here. And neither would we.

    We do the best we can, we learn form our mistakes and we also learn what works so we can do it again.

    But in this departure - to a certain extent, it IS with your approval because it is one of the choices you gave her. Do X, or Y. She chose Y. You cannot now say, "I didn't expect that. I didn't really mean it..." You now have to follow through and say, "OK, I will drive you there so you don't have to lug your bags on the bus." For her to insist on not telling you where - that is childish and inappropriate. However, I'm not sure you can control this in any way. All you can do is be more mature than she is being, and you do what she should do - you tell her (as I described already) where you are going and when, if it takes you away form home. Keep her updated with important family news. The implication is that you expect, as courtesy, the same in return. If you get it - praise her. If you don't - be disappointed perhaps, but don't wallow in it with her. Move on and hope she eventually works it out.

    in the meantime, her bad house manners will be Someone Else's Problem.

    Marg
     
  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    My guess is that she doesn't know where she's going yet- and because of that, she'll be jerking on Jen's every emotion between now and Sat trying to get her to cave.
     
  12. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    If SHE already knows she needs you to pay for therapy, help her get a job, cook at least sometimes, etc, then she has no plan and she's doing nothing but manipulating you, Jen. People who move away young and are succesful at getting on with an adult life typically already have a plan. She doesn't have one. But you caving is going to make this manipulation worse.

    What are you going to do if she doe3sn't leave Sat or leaves for the weekend then calls at some point and says she has no place to stay or sneaks back in? Are you going to throw this plan out the window and say it didn't work?

    Thhis isn't to criticize, by the way, it's just trying to get you to think thru some things so maybe something can be effective- not in changing her- but changing the dynamics in your house, ultimately- it won't happen in just a few weeks.
     
  13. Jena

    Jena New Member

    wow ok marg klmno you both had alot to say lol. and thanks!

    marg i see some of your points, yet i was on a downer when i posted the what have i done wrong thread that night. ya know how that goes. i sat back today thinking of the cursing the in my face etc. i have to say i think i did ok, i'm good with what i've done with her in the past. i know i've made my mistakes i see some of your points. should of checked stupid window yet i was rushing out in middle of night. yet therapist and i went over it today she said jen you've done great, this kid started with-you while you were in portland and you manged to care for difficult child at hospital each day and dodge police phone calls and easy child melting down miles and miles away. she said you have supplied her with all the tools she choses not to take them. on and on we went. so i'm not beating me up anymore, it'll be my new mantra.

    klmno she isn't manipulating me because i told her ill pay for therapy. i think your getting a bit ahead of yourself here. i didn't state i'll cook you dinner some nights, nor did i state i'll get you cell or a job. i said simply i'll pay for therapy. tha'Tourette's Syndrome it. that isnt' manipulation. that's me just saying you need help great if you wanna get it i'll pay for it. let's remember also shes' almost 18. i'm not checking with cops or anything either. i'm doing what i planned on doing.

    if she wants to return someday than great sure with a plan her following rules. plus it'll be after shes' 18 soooo ill be able to open the door and say time to go. if she caves before sat. and says oh i want to stay. ok same plan as before you gotta follow rules, if she doesn't door will be open again.

    she already knows where she's staying i heard her on phone while walking by her room. she's calling about jobs and couldn't figure out what number to give.

    i gotta be honest the talk wasn't drama filled at all. she even openly admitted this isnt' healthy for you, difficult child the other kids or me. leaving is the best option for me because i dont' want to snow you and say i'll follow the rules and than not. i have to say it and mean it. she also admitted she has problems and is spiraling and she knows she needs the therapy.

    these are all tips i'll use on the next teenager. difficult child should prove to be interesting. i'm not losing her forever, she is alive and well. sh'es just going to be somewhere else, and away from me. it might not be so bad for her. let her see how other ppl function, let all of it go on. maybe in the end she'll say wow home wasnt' so bad afterall.

    it def isnt' what or how i pictured things occuring. yet is life ever what we exactly imagined it would be?? I love her, hopefully she'll be well, take care of her own needs and clean her act up. it's really up to her now. i wash my hands except the therapy.
     
  14. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I got that from your previous post- maybe I should have said she is trying to mannipulate you, instead of that she is. But I don't think this is going to go as smoothly as you think right now. Start reading some threads about detachment and so forth- she isn't ready for adulthood and you've said that yourself. She is manipulative, as most teens are, and it's very difficult for the parent not to cave because it still seems like the parent cares more about the kid's life and future than the kid does....and the kid uses that against us. Just because she knows the right things to say doesn't mean she "gets" it.
     
  15. Jena

    Jena New Member

    oh sheesh i dont' think it'll be easy............ hello i just popped half a 0.25 xanax i had in an old prescription because my chest was kiling me!!! i knew it was anxiety. it fixed it. i'm already projecting easter without her how sad ill feel. yup i'll hurt for a while than i'll heal. like we all do. look at how far you have come ....... really really far.

    def. won't be easy...... never said easy!! :) it'll be hard, my kids are hard, their defiant and thick headed stubborn and difficult? where oh where do they get that from?? :)

    just pray that someday we all sit back and laugh when our difficult child's are older at how insane they were........ as they bring our grandchildren to visit and we're happy and at peace with the world
     
  16. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Jena, I want to make it clear, my comment about the window was not meant as criticism. Just to point out how you need to always be one step ahead of a single-minded difficult child especially when our minds and thoughts are fragmented.

    klmno is making a similar point - think. Plan. Consider all possibilities, especially the worst. Then put in place as much as you can, prepare yourself as best you can, because sure as eggs, this won't go smoothly. Things are not adding up from some perspectives. If it turns out she does have a good exit plan, then fine. But why is she waiting? What is the delay? Why has she not already moved out? What is the obstacle for her? Then the flip side - what if she is not ready, or her place is not ready, by the deadline? What will you do then? What can you do then?

    I am concerned that you may have already painted yourself into a corner - "follow the rules or leave." It's too open-ended. How will you successfully make her leave? If you had, say, a shelter already lined up for her, that would be a valid alternative. What if she goes to the police and says, "My mother is refusing to let me stay, even though I am under age."? You said you checked with the police that what you are doing is OK. Have you got their response in writing? Is there any way that you can CYA if whoever said that what you're doing is okay, chooses to deny it afterwards?

    It's the planning ahead that is so vital, but also so tiring. When a difficult kid has you on the ropes, you're rolling with the punches, you're reacting only. It's difficult to be proactive when things are tough.

    Personally, I hadn't considered the option that she wasn't telling you where she was staying because she doesn't yet know herself. So even there, I would have failed in the fully proactive mode. That's why all the heads on this site are better than just one.

    Do let us know how this pans out. If she feels you have second-guessed her, feel free to snigger behind your inscrutable Mom mask.

    Marg
     
  17. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    I'm glad it was a "matter of fact" type of conversation. You evidently did a great job and easy child used her brain quickly to react in an appropriate manner. I think the CD family just wants you to be prepared for the fact that it may all fall apart...or, as I predict, she will be trying to tug on your heart strings shortly after gaining her independence. I am hoping that your husband will be by your side and showing support. DDD
     
  18. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    Jena, if you're not going to be there when she's packing up and if you don't know where she's going, how are you going to keep her from robbing you blind? You could come home to find half of your possessions gone and have no idea where she went with them! Who paid for the laptop? Are you going to let her take it? If she's quitting school she won't need it for homework anymore. And if she takes it, it won't be long at all before she sells it to someone for 20 bucks and it's gone! And I'd make darn sure she doesn't have a key to the house when she leaves!

    Unless someone elses family is gullible enough to agree to support her, it probably won't be very long before reality is smacking her in the face and she realizes that she needs to come home. If (when!) she comes back home, even if she's already turned 18 and isn't going to school, the house rules should still apply. Turning 18 isn't a license to do whatever you darn well please! "MY house, MY rules" still applies no matter how old they are! When my kids were in that stage, the rules were that they either worked or went to school. No laying around the house all day watching TV or playing video games. As a member of the household they were expected to do their share of the household duties. And even though they didn't really have a curfew anymore, if they were going to out later than usual, they were expected to call and let me know - that's just common courtesy so you don't worry. Just stick to yout guns - it's still YOUR house, YOUR rules. She can either abide by them or find somewhere else to live. Being an "adult" isn't all that it's cracked up to be!
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2011
  19. Jena

    Jena New Member

    ddd thanks and yes i know and the input does help.... Donna no doubt being an adult isnt' all it's cracked up to be.

    to be quite honest the moment i said ok i'm giong in to talk to her..... i knew in my mind sat. may come and go and she'll still be here doing what she does leaving going coming etc. in that case I will pack up her things leave them in the garage with a note stating i love you, again these are the rules. if you change your mind call me as long as your willing to obide by them and we'll meet at therapists office and discuss particulars before you re enter.

    cause i know her i'm calling her bluff now. she sat there well i'll leave on my birthday. i said no i can't live that way that much longer, its too toxic and out of control plus too much drama on your bdy. she said oh ok so sooner? i said yea how about sat. difficult child will be with dad you arent' going as usual so that'll work.

    i'm locking house, doors, windows etc. each time we leave. she asked if she can come by i said sure your always welcome but call first. you wont' be allowed here alone or to have parties when i go away etc. you aren't living here anymore and that's how we'll be handling it. i did tell her i'll set up financial aid incase she choses to go to college in september. the therapy i want to pay for, my choice.

    we'll c how it all shakes out. i've rid myself of the guilt already today. i dont' know if that's the little tiny xanax i took lol or if it's my common sense or both. maybe i'll have to rid myself each day if necessary.

    we all adjust, in the beginning she'd disaappear not come home i'd be frantic than each night it got a little easier. especially when i knew she was just being defiant. i can't change the past i can only work on from today forward and i can only do what my gut's telling me on this. i can't be her doormat anymore love her to death yet i can't at almost 41 be walked all over anymore and have difficult child have a frontrow seat.

    i just keep invisioning years down road her visiting us laughing and saying do u remember how defiant you were at 18?? :) here's hoping

    thing is we're cut from same cloth, not to sound oppositional yet when i need to be i can be really strong and really stubborn also and smart about how i go about stuff. she seems to think that at 18 years old she's got me beat, she soo doesn't.

    dont' get me wrong i want the thoughts the whole call cops thing just was a bit overboard kid will be 18 on may 8th i'm not worried about any legal repurcussions therapist said dont be also.
    i told difficult child maybe this will be better, easy child will visit you and you two will actually visit instead of fight or her yell at you. she than said can we give the room to my stepson?? LOL sheesh...
     
  20. HaoZi

    HaoZi Guest

    I have to agree with donna, someone needs to be there to see what she's taking with her, and I'd make her take her stuff to the door but outside of any heavy objects she might be taking, the friends don't come in to help pack. If she's wanting to leave her bed and such there, it sounds like she's packing light and should be able to carry any boxes to the door herself.
     
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