Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by DS3, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. DS3

    DS3 New Member

    My difficult child's ABA therapist (who has only had two sessions with him) asked me yesterday if anyone had ever mentioned anything about echo-mania and my son. I told him no, because this is the first time I'm hearing of it. It seems in theory to make a lot of sense with my difficult child constantly repeating himself, and when you tell him 'say ....' he'll actually repeat the 'say' part of it. Kind of funny watching the ABA therapist work with him and him doing that. Beyond the funniness, has anyone ever heard of this? I've been trying to find more information on it with searches, but keep coming up with information about a computer virus. Any help appreciated in trying to narrow down the search/information regarding this possible diagnosis.

  2. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Try looking up echolalia. It is when kids, generally with autism, repeat what is said. It can be immediate like you say, Joey, How are you? and the answer is, "How are you?" or it can be delayed , which mine does a lot of....repeating words or sentences that they heard a while ago and say it once or repeatedly.

    (there are other conditions where this happens, esp. organic brain conditions, but just saying, it is a common Autism symptom and where you hear about it the most)

    Just my little ol' Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) input, smile. (never heard of echo mania....maybe the ABA person has the wrong term but probably the right idea)

    you will probably find lots of info on a search for echolalia

    PS. it is not really a diagnosis, it is just a symptom/behavior
  3. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Did he mean echolalia? This is where someone can repeat back to you what you say even if they can't carry on a conversation. It is common in autism. Sometimes autistic people will be able to answer in movie quotes when they can't answer in a regular conversation (my husband).
  4. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Sorry Buddy must've been typing while I was.
  5. DS3

    DS3 New Member

    Maybe I just remembered it wrong. Yesterday was a busy busy day. He doesn't just do it when you ask him to repeat a phrase either. He'll tell me he wants something, and I can be reaching in and getting it, but he just keeps saying it over and over and over again. He reminds me of the 'song that never ends' type deal. And he seems to go into fits of it (especially if he can't have it, and no -I do not give in). Is this normal for a 4-5 year old?
  6. keista

    keista New Member

    I think you mis-heard. The term you are looking for is echolalia. I think you will do much better in searches with that.

    Son had it when he was younger. We always knew what shows he was watching because he'd be repeating the phrases or the theme songs CONSTANTLY. The weirdest was when he came up with "We are lost in Downtown Charleston" This one had us very confused until I realized that was me saying it on a home video that he was watching repeatedly. That's now a "family phrase"
  7. Liahona

    Liahona Guest

    Sorry I don't know what normal is for that age yet. easy child 1 doesn't do that and she turns 4 next month. My autistic kids will do it.
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    THat's echolalia, very common in autistic spectrum disorder. My son used to do this. I'd say, "Sonic, get your coat" and he's say "Coat." I would ask him his name and he's repeat "Name." He would also repeat his favorite television shows and had a fantastic memory. It is not normal for any age child, but it is the way children with communication problems often learn to speak. ST can help a lot.
  9. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Certainly kids can play verbal games where they do this. But, you would not likely see it consistently and in the way you are seeing it.
    So, in this case I would suspect it is a symptom of the big picture you are looking at. Sorry. Just MHO
  10. DS3

    DS3 New Member

    As I am reading on the correct 'term' now, it seems that this should have grown out of it by age 3. Then again, he is a preemie, and he does have some language issues -which may actually be the norm for him (if I get what I am reading correctly). We're waiting on the IEP to continue Speech therapy, but in the mean time he gets play therapy, ABA therapy, and occupational therapy (I am a very busy mom lately with his appointments.)

    So which doctor do I bring this up to? We won't see the speech therapist again until that IEP is done.
  11. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Any chance of private speech therapy? I always did both for my kiddo when young. (NOT knocking school therapy, I am one! --just that communication is such a big piece of the pie in kids with these kinds of issues, you can sign releases and they should be happy to consult with eachother) There is so much to work on at this age. I forget, does he have a diagnosis of Autism yet? You seem to be doing all of the traditional Autism kinds of therapies, so was just wondering, sorry if I am off base, I just dont remember. Given all of the other issues, I would not think of this as a developmental thing he will outgrow. If he does great! But it is a for sure huge red flag in autism. It sometimes persists throughout life, and sometimes, when communication skills improve it goes away or becomes only noticable to you because you know his little phrases. Whoever ordered Occupational Therapist (OT) and ABA should be able to authorize SLT
  12. DS3

    DS3 New Member

    We're planning on private speech since difficult child only attends a half day at school, so they won't be able to work with him very much without him missing what he is suppose to be learning. Problem is, insurance won't cover it until the IEP is in place, and we don't have the funds to get him seen on our own dime.

    He's been diagnosis'd with ADHD, ODD and a phonological disorder as well as sensory processing issues (waiting on the report to see what exactly he's been defined as having in sensory processing disorder (SPD)).
  13. hearts and roses

    hearts and roses Mind Reader

    Echolalia is also common in children with tourette syndrome. My difficult child had/has it. Speech therapy really didn't do anything for the echolalia, However maybe there are new techniques that are effective these days. difficult child would hear a commercial and then repeat one phrase from the jungle for days, often weeks! Drove me nuts, but after a while you learn to tune it out. She would also repeat back what we would say to her or repeat a conversation going on at the next table at a restaurant or pick up a word from the radio and repeat it over and over.
  14. DS3

    DS3 New Member

    But's its not really him repeating what someone says unless you say 'say this' and then he would respond with 'say this' as well. If you ask him what is he suppose to say (different phrasing/wording), he'll answer with the correct response.

    For example: (using the first term) He says "I want a snack", I say: "Say please may I when you want a snack", he would respond with "Say please may I when you want a snack"

    (using the second term): He says "I want a snack", I say "Is that how we ask for something" OR "What do you say when you want something?" He would respond with "Please may I have a snack?"

    Then there is the "I want", "I like", "Mommy!", "NO!" (usually with explosiveness), and I could go on and on with these... it depends on the day and what time it is it seems.

    For example: "Honey, we have to get dressed for school." He responds with "I don't wanna go to school!", "I respond with, "Why don't you want to go to school?" or "You have to go to school honey. It's what the law says." (depends at what point we reach the second saying. Usually it's after about 10 minutes of him nagging at home). He will sit there the whole time we get dressed, put our shoes on, get into the car, and drive to school (about 30 minutes in total), of him just saying "I don't want to go to school!". He will just repeat it and repeat it and repeat it. I have tried numerous different "I understands" and acknowledgements, but he will continue on up until the point when he has to walk through the door.

    Another example: (This one is nightly for about 1-2 hours). Whenever there is a commercial on TV, difficult child will say "I like that one!" and each time he says it, he seems to increase in volume. Doesn't matter if I acknowledge it or not. He will continue on and on and on.

    Another example: I say, "It's time for dinner". He says "I don't want to eat!". I then usually tell him to sit down and try a little, and he will keep saying "I don't want to eat" (sometimes it's "I don't want dinner!"). I usually make him sit there until everyone finishes unless he starts throwing his plate or becoming too unruley. Of which then I say "You can either sit there and eat, or you can go to bed. Which will it be?" (I find that giving him the choice of one or the other will prompt him to sit quietly until everyone is done, and I try to use this technique through out the day because it gets me better results.)

    I mean when he starts repeating the same phrase over and over again, it will drive you to the breaking point. It has to me many times. I usually have to walk away or set him in his room. And this is every day, throughout the day (evenings are the worst).

    Overall, his behavior is improving with all of the therapies and work from me, and I now have difficult child 2 which is his younger brother. I'll start a different conversation on that one when I feel ready to. But they have basically switched rolls on who has the problem behavior. It just seems to never end. And when one is getting 'fixed' the other one starts having problems. Or something new comes into play. ~sigh~ It's going to be a long 21+ years...
  15. keista

    keista New Member

    Echolalia manifests in many ways. The "say this....." repetition is definitely echolalia. The others seem to be a combination of echolalia and perseveration. Perseveration is when they get fixated on an idea or task, and it takes industrial sized machinery to pry them away.

    Oh! You're getting tag teamed! I hate it when my kids do that to me. Sometimes we'll rotate through all 3 of them in one day......twice!
  16. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I'd bring it up to all of them, along with the facts of the delay/gap in Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) due to IEP/Ins link.
    And I'm assuming they all know he was premie, as well.

    Lots of the therapies have overlaps - and every little bit helps.

    By the way: Most of how you're describing it, to me, is more likely delay due to premie, rather than other stuff... JMHO.
  17. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I actually still think it sounds autistic-like. At any rate, I would want somebody like a neuropsychologist to know about it. I don't think the other professionals would really know the root cause. It would probably require more testing than a Speech Therapist is able to do.
  18. DS3

    DS3 New Member

    How about an Speech Language Pathologist (SLP)? Would they be able to help?

    And I don't know if it's a daughter due to being a preemie, or sometihng else. His Neuro-psychiatric in August said that he didn't fall on the autism spectrum at all. Then again, I've been wondering about his results, especially with all of the therapies we go to. Then again the ABA is partially for him, and partially for me (working with the disruptive behavior and learning what works best for him type deal). It just seems to bring more questions. Especially since everyone asked me how his Neuro-psychiatric could get so much from a 1 hour interview with him, and a 1/2 hour interview from me. I'll talk to his therapists and his case manager today to see what we can come up with. (Today is his play therapist, and his ABA.)
  19. buddy

    buddy New Member

    Speech Language Pathologist (SLP)'s all have similar training and have to take x number or clinic hours in each area (speech/artic, language, rehab, Easy Child.) and then take a national exam. Here is the thing, like any specialty within those things they can some are more expert in voice and some in speech, some in early childhood, some in Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI). Many of us were the only ones recognizing and diagnosing kids with Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) because when I started, there were no Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) teaching certificates. People didn't believe us (Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) was thougth to be rare and emotionally based) and kids with Aspergers were being called childhood schizophrenia, even though there was a huge difference in many areas. So if you get an OLDie like me or someone who just ended up working in an area/clinic where Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) is a huge part of their client base, they may be able to spot if it is more of a symptom thing or a daughter thing pretty quickly. I had student who was echolalic in American Sign Language, ...hard to convince people! But it was very very obvious if you have done it long enough.

    For my difficult child, I always specifically told a clinic what kind of therapist I was looking for and told them I wanted someone who had a lot of experience with kids with Autism. If you did that, even if he didn't have autism, they would be very good at early childhood lang. delay (have to know that to know the differences so you would be pretty safe that both issues would be covered well) and they could see if the symptoms are related to autism. And yes, there is therapy that helps especially if the function for the individual child is to rehearse language or to buy time to process or formulate language. Helping a child address the underlying issue (putting sentences together, improving his understanding of language, Increasing vocabulary, helping him to request to get needs, learning how to go back and forth more than one turn in a conversation...etc.) Kids who are verbal may still be taught to use a non-verbal form of communication to augment communication while they are learning new skills, doesn't mean they will always use it but it can be very very useful in lowering stress and then allowing them to communicate more effectively. If the function of it is a comforting kind of thing, then working on other anxiety issues/sensory issues etc. along with improving communication with sp. ed. teacher, therapist and Occupational Therapist (OT) may help too.

    Everyone has their "thing" just like a doctor first is trained in general and then develops a specialty. While it is not in their actual job label, Occupational Therapist (OT), PT and Speech Language Pathologist (SLP) folks typically specialize too.