Discussion in 'The Watercooler' started by klmno, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    They are passing a law here that adults can't smoke cigs in the car if a minor is in the car. Hmmm. I guess I might end up court ordered to stop smoking.
  2. Shari

    Shari IsItFridayYet?

    KLMNO - is that....some sarcastic humor I am reading???
  3. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Let's just say that since difficult child convinced the psychiatric hospital that he was addicted to cigs so he could get a nicotine patch and that is why he HAD to demand cigs from me, and he ended up with a "nicotine addiction" added to his diagnosis's that were shown in court, and now they are passing this big cig ban, this will probably be another issue I get to deal with. 'Cause you know- I'm a horrible Mom. (by the way- difficult child told these people that he smoked 2-4 PACKS of cigs a DAY and they apparently believed him. I laughed over that one- I told them No- no nicotine patch.)

    Oh- was that sarcastic??
  4. muttmeister

    muttmeister Well-Known Member

    They are considering a similar law here. I don't smoke and I do understand the idea behind it but don't these people have anything better to do? I feel even more strongly about things like seatbelt laws, helmet laws, etc. We are definitely not a free country anymore. You can't legislate against stupidity and I don't want to have to pay law enforcement to try to get people to use common sense. It is a losing battle and they have criminals to catch. Leave the rest of us alone!
    On another note, my state is just now trying to pass a law that says it is legal to breastfeed your baby in a public place and you can't be banned for doing it. Somebody was asked to leave WalMart just last week. How stupid!
  5. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    I am so tired of govt trying to dictate my life.

    I wonder if this law will be as ignored as the one they passed here that says you can't smoke within 100 feet or something of a public building. Not a living soul pays attention to it. I know I most certainly don't. If I'm standing outside my smoke is most certainly NOT bothering YOU. sheesh

    At school we have a professor who is silly enough to attempt to enforce this. Everyone either scatters or puts out their cigarettes. I look her in the eye and tell her to call the cops, I'm not moving. I pay money to be at that school. I'm standing outside bothering no one. Get over it.

    I mean, please. The idiot doesn't even know my name. (not that I care) She now hates me. LOL

    I guess I'm too old and stubborn for these new laws that are supposed to protect us from ourselves. Standing outside and smoking I'm hurting no one but myself.

    I do smoke with kids in the car........only if the windows are rolled down. Heck, I don't like a car filled with smoke either. (gag me)

    I'm a polite smoker who is considerate of others, always have been. I won't smoke around children under 3 months. But somehow I managed to smoke and raise 3 fairly healthy kids with none of the "issues" this so called 2nd hand smoke is supposed to cause. (of course how on earth can they tell with all the darn pollution in the air to begin with)

    I'll now climb off my soap box before I really get going. This sort of thing infuriates me.

    Unfortunately these sorts of laws....and they're not just about smoking anymore......are becoming the norm. easy child just told me there is a new law a child under 4 feet 11 inches and 80 pounds must now be in a car seat!! Interesting. Nichole at 17 was 4'10 and weighed 80 lbs. Can someone tell me what's wrong with this picture??

    *will slink off to the corner now*
  6. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I definitely agree that it seems like the government is dictating WAY too much anymore. I have always smoked. I never smoked in my house due to difficult child having asthmatic wheezing as a baby. I broke that when he came home from psychiatric hospital with them convinced that he was smoking that much and I was so aggravated with him for stealing cigs from me and smoking them in the house. I figured there's not much sense in me freezing my butt off outside anymore to keep the cleanest air I can in the house.
  7. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    I'm not sure if we have that law here yet (I'm not a smoker, it doesn't affect me) but I know if we're not already, they're working on it. For years, cab drivers haven't been allowed to smoke in their own cabs, passengersaren't allowed to either. PLus we also have no smoking in any public buildings at all, no smoking in restaurants, no smoking right outside either because then people going in and out cop a face full of smoke. I do know that last bit gets partly ignored, because where I park at the mall (the disabled spots near the entrance) is also where a lot of the workers there gather to smoke, wven though there are no smokingsigns tere. If I take my lunch back to the car, I can't enjoy it because I'm surrounded by smoke.

    Wokplaces are supposed to supply designated smoking areas for employees, and the mall doesn't have this yet which is why people smoke as much as they do near the entrance.

    They're also looking at banning smoking indoors if you have children; so even in your own home, you have to go outside for a smoke if you have kids at home.

    I know this sounds draconian. But I remember when my mother was alive and was struggling with her asthma. My father used to smoke while i was growing up, and my mother spent a lot of those years in and out of hospital. Her health improved amazingly when he quit smoking, which he did because he got emphysema. Then he and my mother discovered - in a smoke-free environment, both of them were much healthier. But if either of them even went somewhere where someone had been smoking heavily, even if there wasn'thank you any current cigarette smoke, it would still be enough to cause them breathing problems. My mother had to stop visiting my sister even when her husband wasn't home, because he smoked at home and the house smelt of cigarettes. The smell alone would make my mother really ill and risked putting her in hospital. Going shopping - if there was someone smoking, my mother would have to leave the shop. Outdoors in the wide open spaces, there was no problem if she could simply move so it wasn't blowing in her direction. But anywhere confined, or even concentrated near an entrance - she had to leave. She never said anything to anyone because she respected their rights, but I know it did upset her sometimes if it meant she couldn't get all her shopping done.

    So I do sympathise with those of you feeling like the state is beginning to intrude just a bit too much in your own choices, but the impact of your smoking is perhaps greater than you realise.

    I do get annoyed though, at laws which are passed but not enforced; then they try to deal with it by passing more laws. Better to enforce what you've got, than to keep trying to legislate and achieve even less. At least with laws that are enforced, you know where you stand. But laws that get ignored except when it's convenient to run someone in - that's not fair, it's not right.

    As for difficult child's excuse that your smoking is what made him a smoker - rubbish. It's still a matter of choice. As I said, my father was a smoker, quite a heavy smoker at times. I grew up with a smoker in the house and NEVER in my life have I even considered taking up smoking. And at his age, to be smoking as much as he claimed - I'm with you on this one. Good for you to correct the claim and refuse the nicotine patch. He probably just wants to big-note himself with the other inmates.

  8. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    I've heard talk about laws like that being proposed around here too. And it's just 'one more thing', ya know! Just one more unenforceable law - they will worry about peeking in your car windows instead of stopping all the drunk driver, drug deals, murders and robberies! What they were talking about here was banning smoking in your car, whether you had children in there or not! They tried to get it through with laws about using cell phones while you're driving, saying that smoking while you're driving is a distraction! Hey, I've been smoking almost as long as I've been driving a car ... I think I've got it down by now! I can also walk and chew gum at the same time! Even by myself, I don't smoke in the car without opening the window so the smoke goes out. But it IS "just one more thing' ... pretty soon you can expect them to be sneaking through your yard, peeking in your living room windows to check on what you're doing in there! We've just gone way too far in trying to protect people from themselves!

    I guess I'm sensitive about this because of what we go through at work. I work for the Dept. of Correction in a State prison that is located on 52 acres in the middle of hundreds of acres of total wilderness. Step outside and it's rolling hills and trees as far as the eye can see. We used to have a designated smoking area in one of the buildings and we would take work along with us to do while we were there. But when they came out with the 'no smoking' rules, they didin't just say no smoking in the 'buildings' like everybody else ... they said no smoking on the 'property'! The people who work in the main offices downtown can just stand on the sidewalk in front of the building. Not us! We can't even smoke in our own cars in the parking lot. A couple of times a day we have to actually go out to our cars, leave State property, and drive 1.2 miles down the road to a place where we can pull off the road to smoke! Really productive, huh! Do they really think my one little cigarette is polluting those thousands of acres of wilderness? How incredibly stupid!
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2009
  9. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Donna, employees at the hospital where easy child works faced the same thing. But an employee threatened to start a class action law suit against the hospital as a car happens to be a person's private property. For now it worked. Workers aren't happy, but they can smoke in their cars.

    A store chain I worked for once had a great solution to the smoker/non smoker issue. They built special breakrooms in their stores that had an add on room for smokers. This room had a heavy duty ceiling fan and pulled the smoke out of the room. It was awesome really.

    They stopped it because non smokers were coming into the smoking room to spend their break and then complaining to management about the smoke! Now c'mon. How stupid is that?

    I realize there are people who are rude with their smoking. I've run into many myself. Nor do I like it. But usually when a designated place is provided with a decent shelter in it, smokers use it. Smoking outside in such a place, or even open area is not hurting anyone except the smoker, and that's a personal choice.

    These types of laws never made it to the books before because there was no way to make non smokers happy without stomping all over the rights of smokers. These days stomping all over the rights of one group of people to please another seems to be the popular thing to do. And now that govt has gotten away with it for smoking....they're having a field day. Worrisome in a country where personal rights are supposed to be important. Yet the overall public doesn't seem to notice enough for it to scare them yet. And with each new law, they set the pecident for the next one.
  10. Fran

    Fran Former Site Owner

    I know of several buildings where they enforce the not smoking near the entrance. No one wants to smell the smoke if they aren't smoking. Truthfully, if people(and I'm an ex smoker) would have been more thoughtful back in the day we probably wouldn't have such militant anti smokers.
    We smoked during morning report with a small room packed with people. People smoked in their hospital beds. The cafeteria had cigarette smoke everywhere. It was disgusting and I was part of it for several years.
    Never dawned on me that someone would find it offensive. The few people that complained, I looked at them like they were nuts. Ah. to be 21 again. Self absorbed that what I was doing didn't matter to others was the best way to describe it.

    Probably the best thing that happened is that I married a non smoker. He never complained or said a word but I didn't want him or his clothes to smell like smoke so I smoked outside. Eventually I just whittled it away until I wasn't smoking very often.

    My kids and nephews grew in the era of anti smoking. They would be shocked to see someone smoke in the house.

    It's unfortunate that we have to be forced to wear seatbelts despite proving they save lives but there is a rampant case of "don't tell me what to do disease" out there and we end up paying for it through insurance premiums, taxes, law enforcement hours, hospitalizations and severe head trauma.

    So, yep, I think we have to legislate some common sense if the general public has to pay for the consequences.
  11. trinityroyal

    trinityroyal Well-Known Member

    Here in Ontario, we have all of those laws you're talking about.

    - You're not allowed to smoke in a car with young children
    - You're not allowed to smoke in any public buildings, restaurants, BARS!, shops, etc.
    - You're not allowed to smoke outdoors if the area is covered by a roof or an awning
    - You're not allowed to smoke within 100 feet of the doorway

    I'm not a smoker, so I'm not directly affected by any of the laws (and I must confess that I like going to restaruants much more now that I don't have to sit in a smoky room). But, I don't like the government's interference in people's lives.

    The way I see it, if smoking is legal, then it's legal.
    Putting so many restrictions in place that it's impossible for a smoker to actually smoke anywhere is wrong. If smoking is that bad, then it shouldn't be legal. Since it's legal, the draconian laws do not belong.

    I think the government wants to have it both ways. They collect a HUGE amount of tax revenue from tobacco which they don't want to give up. But they spend an awful lot of money advertising the fact that smoking is unhealthy, and so they're trying to look proactive.

    As for the car seat laws, we have that too. If you're under 4 ft 6, or weigh less than 80 lbs, or you're younger than 8 years old, by law you must ride in the back seat and sit in a booster seat. Once you hit any one of those milestones then you're allowed to ride without one, and in the front seat.

    Little easy child is 4 ft 5 1/2 and 77 lbs, and he's been doing push-ups, sit ups, and eating extra helpings so that he can grow big enough to be allowed to give up his booster. It's actually very cute. The reason behind the car seat law is that seat belts and air bags are not designed for small statured people, and can cause them significant injury in a crash. The booster seat puts them at the right height for the seat belts and air bags not to do this.

    Because of the way in which this law has been implemented, I don't really have a problem with it.

  12. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    I'm glad Fran stepped in here and posted this. I don't have a problem if you want to smoke in your car. I do have a problem when I would go to Walmart and 3 or 4 employees were smoking by the front door. I would have to walk through a cloud of smoke to go shopping. Sometimes, I would have to do this with my asthmatic, sick child. I happen to like the new law that states people can't smoke near the front door of an establishment. It's a shame it had to become a law. Personally, I think places like Walmart or other shopping places should have an area out back where employees can take a break and smoke. They should have always done this, not just because a law states it.

    I don't smoke and never have, but I grew up with parents who smoked and my entire family smoked. I hated it...still do.

    Donna, I think what you go through is absolutely ridiculous. There are extremes and that is certainly outrageous. I don't advocate that whatsoever.

    This seems to be such a hot button with employers today, because of various reasons. I think....perhaps in some cases, employers don't want to make special provisions, ie: a smoking area, because if they do that, the cost of health insurance rises for the company. Insurance companies are jumping all over this one. We even see the beginnings of this happening if too many employees are overweight. A lot of big employers have gyms in their buildings, because of this.
  13. Star*

    Star* call 911

    With cigarettes in SC going to $4.75 a pack by Saturday? I don't see this as a problem for anyone. :anxious:
  14. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not

    I live in a state where they are just beginning to implement smoking bans (amid lots of controversy) and we have no helmet laws....and it's interesting to me how the arguments against each are similar.

    No one should tell me what to do.

    If I choose to do something that is potentially harmful that's MY business.

    And while those might seem like good arguments to make in this free country--they don't take into account all of the STUPID that goes on in this country every day. And I think that unfortunately, the laws have to err on the side of the extreme in an effort to counter-act the STUPID.

    For example, I saw a man put his two kids (ages 5 and 7) on the back of his motorcycle with only the command--hang on tight!...for a trip home through a 50 mile an hour zone. No protective gear....and barely enough room on the bike for one of them, much less both. But hey! No law against that!

    I pleaded with him to let me drive the kids. PLEASE! It would be my pleasure to give them a ride. But no, he felt I should just mind my own business....

    And we all see examples of this sort of reckless behavior everywhere, every day.

    So yes, this law against smoking in the car DOES seem extreme....but it makes me wonder what law enforcement or CPS workers have been seeing that makes them feel that this law is needed?

    Because BELIEVE ME--if there was a law that I could have invoked in order to call 911 and get those two little kids off of that man's motorcycle...I would have. But since he was perfectly within his rights to endanger his children's lives, there was nothing that I could do but pray for their safety.

  15. muttmeister

    muttmeister Well-Known Member

    It has gotten so bad in my state that a lot of the cigar bars have gone out of business. If you don't know, a cigar bar is a smoke shop that sells nothing but tobacco. People go in, buy one to try out, and then make a purchase. Now, nobody hates cigar smoke more than I do BUT I am smart enough not to go into one of those places. When you go in, you know what it is. So why should smoking be banned there? It is ridiculous. Just one more attempt by governmnt to take over every aspect of people's lives. I believe people should be free to be as stupid as they want to be, as long as they are not hurting somebody else. It might help weed out some of the nuts - selection of the fittest and all that.
  16. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    In NJ, a cigar bar is the only public place you can smoke. They are popping up a lot.
  17. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    The problem with having laws in place to supposedly protect the stupid (and granted there are plenty out there) is that the stupid never bother to follow the laws that are meant to protect them in the first place. So people with common sense get their rights tromped all over.

    Car seat laws have been in effect since about the late 80's. Yet on any given day I can see at least a half dozen cars with toddlers standing up on the seats. Yes, if the child is harmed in an accident the parent will pay a stiff fine. The fact will remain that the child was injured.

    Car insurance laws have been in effect for ages too. Yet tons of people still don't keep insurance on their cars, despite the consequences.

    Same for seatbelt laws, helmet laws and the like. You simply cannot outlaw stupidity. Period.

    I wear seatbelts because it improves my chances of surviving an accident, not because the law tells me to. I carry car insurance because I don't want to lose everything I've worked hard for if I'm in an accident, not because a law tells me to. I put my kids into carseats long before the law ever took effect and before it was popular, not because there was a law.

    Even when I smoke near the building at school, I'm not rude enough to stand where someone is going to have to walk thru it. But I'll be danged if I'm going to do the 100 yd dash to get back to class, or stand in the pouring rain because no shelter is provided. Most especially when I'm paying to be there in the first place.

    I can honestly understand a non smoker not wanting to be smothered in smoke. I had no problem with smoking and non smoking sections.....except that the way restaurants and the like did them was stupid.....having them just sit in opposite areas is not enough to keep smoke away from nonsmokers. Honest efforts could have been made that would have worked well for everyone.

    There once was a time when prohibition was considered to be good for all. Life was to be so much better once the prohibition laws were put into place. It didn't work then. (and we learned the hard way) And it won't work now. These types of laws are the same thing in essence.

    Personally, I want the govt to leave my personal choices alone. I'd rather laws and those enforcing them be focused on the real criminals instead of worrying about stupid stuff like this.
  18. donna723

    donna723 Well-Known Member

    The thing of it is, you just can't legislate every aspect of people's lives to 'protect' them! Right now the hot button issue is smoking. Can employers legally disciminate against smokers in their hiring practices because they're afraid their insurance rates will go up? Not about smoking on their premises but discriminating against people who smoke on their own time, at home? This was in the news a while back. Yes, it can be harmful, but what about all the other things that people do that increases their health risks. Drinking is certainly legal but can be very harmful - do they disciminate against people who drink? Ride motorcycles with no helmet? Don't use their seat belts? Or what about people who are overweight? That's certainly a risk. And older people usually have more health concerns than younger ones, so we won't hire them either! And women! women sometimes conspire to get pregnant, and then the insurance has to pay all those annoying doctor and hospital bills!

    And as far as making the insurance rates go up, I have had medical insurance with my employer for TWENTY THREE years and have used it ONCE in all that time ... while the dingbat down the hall from me goes to the doctor every time she sneezes, practically has her own reserved seat in the waiting room. She's had antibiotics so many times they don't even work on her anymore. So I figure that I'M really paying her medical bills with my insurance premiums! And she is a NON-smoker!

    I know this is a little off-topic, but I feel better getting it off my chest! I'm done now.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2009
  19. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    You're right, Donna, but yes, employers discriminate against smokers and overweight people all the time now. They do it primarily for "health reasons" for ins., so they say. When I worked in retail and I was hiring people all the time, I was given the strongest impression that they frowned upon hiring someone who smoked. At one point, I think they even had this on the application,(or it may have been a form that was filled out after the hiring) which was outrageous. My own boss smoked like crazy and even though he wasn't supposed to, he would smoke inside the store.

    I didn't care if someone smoked, if they were a good worker and as long as they knew that they weren't going to get a smoking break, while the rest of us were busting our butts. In the 15 years I worked in management, there was only one employee that I had a problem with this.
  20. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    LOL Donna.

    I'd forgotten about companies beginning to do that sort of thing. Scary that their getting away with it too.

    The issue isn't really what personal choices (liberties) they choose to start with per se, it's that they're doing it at all and getting away with it. There was a reason our forefather's worked hard to set up our country the way it was. Because once this sort of thing just doesn't stop. Govt in general is nortorious for this sort of thing. The potential for extremes is wide open for these types of laws, and even if the "starter" laws arent so bad......the ones they lead to may wind up dicatating your every move. And by the time people realize it, it will be too late to stop it simply because the precidents are already firmly in place.

    Ok. Done now. Sorry. This is just something that weighs heavily on my mind.

    Oh, and Star........I am soooo not getting started on the *sin* tax issue. :rofl: