Either back into intensive outpatient or sober home for two years

Discussion in 'Substance Abuse' started by Nancy, Nov 19, 2010.

  1. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    difficult child went to aftercare today and confessed her relapse. The counselor called tonight to tell her that she either has to go back to intensive outpatient or enter a sober house that lasts anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. She would have to quit her job and cannot have a job or any outside contact for the first three months. After that she is required to get a job and do volunteer work in the community and attend an AA meeting every day.

    We can't afford either option at this point so I'm not sure what she is going to do. I think the sober house is her best chance but I don't think she will stay, I think she will leave. They said we didn;t have to pay the outpatient up front if that would help. We haven't even finished paying for her two months inpatient let alone her first outpatient stay.

    I'm torn and not sure what to do.

    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  2. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    I thought she was still in intensive outpatient when this happened. I must have lost track- I thought she only got released from her inpatient a few weeks ago. Anyway, I what does she say about all this?
  3. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    She was released from inpatient Oct 3. Went into outpatient and was just released Nov 4. She started aftercare which is only one day a week and relapsed actually the day she was released from outpatient.

    She doesn't want to go to the sober house, doesn't want to lose her job. She's stunned right now.

  4. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Why cant she work while living at a sober house? I thought that was the point of a sober house. Well aside from the celebrity one on tv. I thought you had to work, live in the sober house, pay rent, yada yada. Most folks dont have outside help paying for the sober houses do they? Or the outpatient treatment right? How do others pay for it? Medicaid? If so, where does easy child live? Have difficult child move there and apply for medicaid. She is under 21 right? She will be eligible without a job.

    Im trying to think here. Throwing out ideas. Ya know, she might be eligible for medicaid if she claims homeless. And I am not really sure if she is eligible or not once she is 18 and living in your house. I just dont know. I know she would be if she had a child but I dont know if she would be if single. Im thinking maybe so. If she meets income limits.

    Does the outpatient take medicaid?
  5. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Sorry- obviously I really have lost track of time over the past couple of months. I don't know what to suggest. On the one hand, if this was never court ordered then she doesn't have to listen to that counselor. on the other hand, I would never recommend a person in recovery go against a good counselor's recommendations. But, the counselor's recommendations need to be realistic, too. Have you talked to the counselor yourself? I think I would and let her/him know that she needs a Plan C because this one isn't doable unless they can find a "safe house" that will allow her to continue working and paying for her own treatment from this point on- which isn't such a bad thing. You foot the bill for the first go-around.
  6. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Hmmmm seems like a tough either or and i am not sure it makes sense. How long would the intensive outpatient be fore and do they take your insurance? It seems if you don't and she can't afford it then they arent really giving you a rasonable option. It woudl seem keeping her job would be a good thing, unless there are people she works with that she also uses drugs with. Are they talking with her about what she thinks would work best to stay sober?
  7. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Janet she can't work for the first three months in the sober house. It is an intensive treatment program, the day is filled with meetings, group, etc, just like it was in inpatient. After the first three months they expect you to get a job and you probably have to turn your pay over to them. You also have to volunteer in the community and go to AA meetings daily. If she had been court ordered they would pay for it but since she was parent ordered we foot the bill. She can't apply for medicaid because she is still our dependant on income taxes. That will probably change next year since she is no longer in school.

    klmno they can't force her to do it of course. She can refuse but then she is out of the program and loses a support system.

    toughlovin our insurnace has paid virtually nothing for any of this. We have a $10,000 deductible and they only allow 10 inpatient days and 10 outpatient. By the time our deductible was met she used up all her days. Their willing to give us some time to pay it I guess but like I said we still owe from inpatient. They feel you can't hold a job and give all your attention to the program. She probably needs the sober house but two years...yikes. Out[patient will probably be another 4-5 weeks, four times a week. She's going to talk to her boss and see if they will work with her not being able to work until after 1p.m. everyday, but since it's the holiday season and she's in retail and they already held her job for inpatient and adjusted her schedule for her first outpatient, I'm not sure how willing they are going to be.

  8. Can she not go the AA meetings and settle with that? I understand how afraid she is to relapse once more, but remember she pulled herself out of the misery. Had the lessons from the program been a failure, she would not have gone back. Jobs are really hard to get. Once she is over with the sober house, there is no guarantee that she will get a job as the financial situation is right now. I understand how hard it is. I understand that you are afraid that she could fall off the wagon again, but maybe this one relapse was her rock-bottom where she found out how to move on in life. I will send a prayer.
  9. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    This is a tough predicament. Most good recovery programs recommend no major changes or deecisions be made the first year of recovery. Even getting a job can set a person back and make it too difficult for them to stay on the right road if they weren't working for a long time beffore entering the program. Oddly enough, I have seen it be successful in my own family when all recommendations are followed fairly well. My cousin had to find someone to support him for 1 year because he wouldn't work his first year due to this. He did pick up, get a job, and get out on his own, sober and clean, after that year and is considered a success even today- although I think he's had three back-slides over the past 25 years, he has always gotten himself back into AA after he does and he doesn't let the backslides go for weeks before getting back into the program. So I can see where they are coming from. Is there a family member she could stay with and maybe you help pay for her support, which should be less than an intensive treatment, for a while and would the safe house/counselor be willing to work with an intensive plan if she wasn't actually living there? It sounds like you, the counselor, and daughter might need to talk about the logistics of all this to see what is doable and what isn't. In your daughter's case, she's at the age of it being all her responsibility in one way but she rreally isn't old enough to be expected to figure out a way to cover expenses for all this. Unfortunately, she's at the age where she's almost better off if it was court ordered and monitored.
  10. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I agree with everything you said klmno. I couldn't ask any of our relatives to take on that responsibility, she's worn out her welcome with most. Although they are very supportive of her sobriety they have seen enough over the years to not care much anymore. I think we are going to try to swing the outpatient again. She will have to get agreement from her work for the restricted hours and I will be driving her back and forth for a month again every morning, but if they are agreeing to not making us pay up front we will see how long we can stretch it. It will be in her name so ultimately it will be her responsibility but we know she will never pay it.

    I would hate for her to lose this job, not sure if she will be able to get another one with her record.

  11. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    That sounds like a reasonable plan. As far as her losing her job, if it should happen, once she has around a year of sobriety under her belt and is more comfortable going in and being honest about all of it, she'd be able to get another chance. I know that's not Plan A, but it isn't a lost cause. The main thing is to get her on stable footing more long term now. (I know you know that already- I guess I'm just saying the obvious.)
  12. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Good luck Nancy. I know this is really hard. I think her doing outpatient again is a good idea.... my guess is she will go in with a new perspective now that she knows how easy it is for her to relapse and how it felt too. You know they always say one step back before two steps forward. It sounds like they are willing to work with you on the finances and I hope they will. Gosh you would think insurance would pay more for this stuff wouldn't you. I mean this is a health problem!!!!
  13. DDD

    DDD Well-Known Member

    You've got my sympathy. husband and I used our retirement fund to get the best help available for easy child/difficult child. The financial concerns are valid. on the other hand, if you feel that she has a real chance following their plan then I imagine you'll go for it and accept the stress
    of $$ worries. It's a hard call. in my humble opinion the young adults really need long non-parental supervision to overcome their addictions.
    Youth and addiction makes for a more lethal combo and the passage of time has been proven to help change lives. I'm sure you and your husband will make the best choice for your family. Sending more supportive thoughts your way. DDD
  14. jinger

    jinger Guest

    Nancy...my heart goes out to you. The cost for treatment, no matter what the disorder, is beyond anyone's budget. I took out a loan for thousands of dollars, used some mutual funds and am still paying off the loan 7 years later. It won't be paid off until I am in my 70's. But, I always looked at it as an investment in the life of a young person. I have had to scrimp and live very frugally because of my debt, but the payoff has been worth it.

    Stay strong, but also be gentle with yourself. Take time just for you, while you support your daughter.
  15. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Nancy just wondering how it is going?
  16. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Thanks for asking.

    She decided to go back to outpatient and starts next Monday. I have mixed feelings. It's a huge emotional and time commitment on my part and I just don't know if I have it in me to do the parent day every week again unless I see a real change in her commitment. That means she needs to sit up with her feet on the ground and participate and do her homework every night and go to her required AA meetings and show me that she is getting it and not just going through the motions.

    Some of the things I see on her FB make me suspicious. She has become friends with the guy who was with her when she got arrested on campus for drinking and drug use. Also made friends with a couple other people from her high school class that drink and smoke pot. So she isn't staying away from those she should be. I also found out she's looking at cars on craigs list. She told her friend that she can spend $250-500 and he should look for her. What does she think we are going to say when she drives home with a junk car that she has no insurance on? It tells me that she is thinking of leaving and this may all be a waste of time and money.

    I went to an al-anon meeting today and I found one tomorrow at the same time and the same place as an AA meeting. I asked husband to go with me and she can go to hers and we will go to ours. I need to detach big time. There is something wrong with me that I can't seem to stop worrying about her and hoping she will change. Why can't I just give up and let happen what happens instead of trying to help her? There must be something really wrong with me that I am so afraid of what she will do. I am a failure at detachment.

    Last edited: Nov 23, 2010
  17. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest


    You are hardly a failure at detachment or anything else. You have been there for your daughter AND you have set limits and been clear. You are not enabling her substance abuse and that is the huge first step!!!

    I don't think detachment is about giving up and I don't think it is about not worrying. We are moms we are going to worry and we are going to hope. That is normal I think. I do think detachment is about finding ways to go on with your life and not have your focus always be her, and to not obsessively worry.

    And it is a process.... I bet if you talk to other parents who have really detached, it took them time and a lot of practice and a number of disappointments to get there.

    I can totally relate. I am doing better at the moment because our son is safe in rehab so I don't have to worry about him right now. We haven't heard from him in over a week and I don't think we will for awhile... he is processing a tough letter from his sister and needs to go through that with therapy there... yet I am feeling it that we haven't heard from him. But like you I am trying to let go and so keep going on with things in MY life. I know it is going to get even harder once he is through the 90 days.

    Your daughter may be somewhat ambivalent about going to out treatment and also about staying sober. I think this is not unusual. It has to be hard to think about giving up something that you feel helped you cope with life, no matter how destructive that coping mechanism was. I would let the therapist at the program know your concerns and then leave it with them.

    Hugs... and hang in there.
  18. slsh

    slsh member since 1999

    Nancy - you are *not* a failure at detachment. Oh my gosh... you are nothing near a failure. We love our kids, we want them to make decent choices, and of course we worry. I think a big part of "detachment" is numbing ourselves. Sometimes I'm really really good at just swallowing my feelings and keeping "detached" - other times, not so much. I think it's harder, for me anyway, when thank you starts making moves in the right direction. I don't cheerlead anymore, I keep my mouth shut, but it's impossible for me to stifle that little bubble of hope that rises in my heart. When he inevitably shoots himself in the foot, I'm so upset (again). It's the same darn rollercoaster we've been on for umpteen years.

    I understand you worrying about what she will do. Our difficult children have no limits. Nothing is too far for them. At least with- the pcs, I'm pretty certain there are some lines they won't cross - no such luck with- thank you, and when I allow myself to think about it, it's terrifying. So I try *really* hard not to think about it. But I think it's impossible to never go down that dark path.

    It's absolutely one day at a time. One hour at a time on the really rough days. Take care of yourself, be gentle to yourself. Do what you need to do for difficult child, for your own peace of mind. It may cross over the lines of detachment, but at the end of the day we have to be able to live with ourselves.

    Many gentle hugs to you.
  19. Ephchap

    Ephchap Active Member

    Awww, Nancy, first of all - big hugs.

    Having been through this, I know you know that you couldn't have done anything better/different. Of course, while going through it, there's always that nagging mommy heart asking, "what if". The addict/alcoholic has to be the one to want it and be ready to make the change. That sure doesn't make it any easier to watch them self-destruct, that's for sure.

    Back when my son needed intensive inpatient, we were able to get him financial help through one of the agencies. Because he had no income, he qualified for SSI assistance. Although we had to fill out financial forms as well (but my son was just barely 17 at the time, not 18), they based it on HIS earnings. Any chance that the sober house or one of the inpatient facilities have some type of program like that? A social worker at the facility should have knowlege of any kind of assistance. Although J is 18, they could possibly base it on HER income, not yours and husband's. Just a thought.

    If she's not going to meetings and working the program, falling off the wagon is more likely.

    Again, big hugs and lots of support coming your way. Addiction is such a tough cycle to break, and it's magnified when they are so young. They see their peers who are able to go out and have a few beers, but they don't have that addictive gene and/or tendency. Some can do that and they are fine. Unfortunately, kids like J and my B just can't.

    As a positive spin, after dealing with staying away from illegal drugs for years, alcohol became my son's drug of choice. Tomorrow he gets his 10 month coin. :) There is always hope, Nancy.

    Mega hugs,
  20. compassion

    compassion Member

    Detatchment is very relevant for me too. I am leading an Al-anon meeting on this topic today. :) It is baby steps and it is one day at a time. For me, it means placing my serenity and patiene as the first prioirty and not getting sucked into the drama, chaos, and crisis. It is hard to keep the focus on self and it is hard not to have expectations. The more I set boundaries and take care of me, the more serenity I have. It is hard. For me, the holidays magninify it.