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English buffs - need help with commas
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 345958" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>On mispronunciation - </p><p>Homer: It's pronounced 'nuke-you-lar'!</p><p></p><p>The rules concerning commas are in a current state of flux. In other words - we are moving to a state from more commas to fewer commas. It's perhaps a consequence of our increasingly computerised and streamlined lifestyles.</p><p></p><p>The first commas and punctuation in general to go were those used in addresses. This was due to the use of computer scanners in mail sorting. Any punctuation could scramble the machines and lead to letters being rejected for the slower and more error-prone hand sorting. </p><p>Thus an address that formerly read as "THE WILSON'S, 14 AMBERLEY ST., MILSON'S POINT" became THE WILSON FAMILY 14 AMBERLEY ST MILSONS POINT</p><p></p><p>I was still at school when abbreviations which finished with the last letter of the word, lost the full stop. words like "street" abbreviated to "st" could be the second letter of the word, but also because they COULD have the last letter, they lost the full stop. Same with "ave".</p><p></p><p>From there, other punctuation changes have crept in. Place names lost punctuation. Then came dates. No more should people write a date as "February 24th, 2008". We lose the "-th" first, then (sorry, folks) the comma. So the date becomes "February 24 2008". The main concern is to avoid ambiguity but lose what is not needed.</p><p></p><p>Editing styles - you can get books on the subject. OK, I should have written that more carefully, but I'm not fussing about proper editing styles right now. Do as I say, not as I do. If you really want a fast lesson, then get your hands on a book on editing styles.</p><p></p><p>Here there could be cultural differences, although there should be fewer cultural differences in this modern age of INternet. However, we do still have variable spelling - UK/Australian English has different spelling to US English so it is also possible that our punctuation is more streamlined than yours. In which case - view this missive form me as a message from your future.</p><p></p><p>I don't have a BA but I am a writer and also an editor. Most of the time I work as a proofreader but sometimes I am needed to help tidy up text. There are some strict rules but as a writer, I also know when to choose to break the rules. Such as never starting a sentence with a preposition - sometimes theatrically it is necessary. Splitting infinitives is something we do on many occasions, often. As with tortology, which I just demonstrated in the previous sentence.</p><p></p><p>We could get totally hidebound with rules and find outselves articstically retricted into the bargain.</p><p></p><p>Some useful rules still in existence - use commas after each multiple adjective except the final one. So you could buy a delicious, pink, large, strawberry ice cream. "Ice cream" here is a two word complex which functions as a single noun for this purpose. However you shouldn't use commas after or before a conjunction. As a rule. So if you join two sentences and choose to write effectively, you shouldn't need to have a comma anywhere near the "and". I put one in after "effectively" because I chose to, I felt it needed the comma to avoid ambiguity and confusion.</p><p></p><p>Part of the need to remove commas is a need to streamline text and make it easier to read. However, we still need commas as a form of mental "taking a breath", to let us know when to pause and know when to change mental inflection.</p><p></p><p>Just remember that careful use of punctuation can totally change the meaning.</p><p></p><p>"What is this thing called love?" can also be written as "What is this thing called, love?"</p><p></p><p>What a difference a comma can make...</p><p></p><p>Go find yourself a styles book in the writing section of your local library. In the meantime, if in doubt - ditch the comma. Streamline.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 345958, member: 1991"] On mispronunciation - Homer: It's pronounced 'nuke-you-lar'! The rules concerning commas are in a current state of flux. In other words - we are moving to a state from more commas to fewer commas. It's perhaps a consequence of our increasingly computerised and streamlined lifestyles. The first commas and punctuation in general to go were those used in addresses. This was due to the use of computer scanners in mail sorting. Any punctuation could scramble the machines and lead to letters being rejected for the slower and more error-prone hand sorting. Thus an address that formerly read as "THE WILSON'S, 14 AMBERLEY ST., MILSON'S POINT" became THE WILSON FAMILY 14 AMBERLEY ST MILSONS POINT I was still at school when abbreviations which finished with the last letter of the word, lost the full stop. words like "street" abbreviated to "st" could be the second letter of the word, but also because they COULD have the last letter, they lost the full stop. Same with "ave". From there, other punctuation changes have crept in. Place names lost punctuation. Then came dates. No more should people write a date as "February 24th, 2008". We lose the "-th" first, then (sorry, folks) the comma. So the date becomes "February 24 2008". The main concern is to avoid ambiguity but lose what is not needed. Editing styles - you can get books on the subject. OK, I should have written that more carefully, but I'm not fussing about proper editing styles right now. Do as I say, not as I do. If you really want a fast lesson, then get your hands on a book on editing styles. Here there could be cultural differences, although there should be fewer cultural differences in this modern age of INternet. However, we do still have variable spelling - UK/Australian English has different spelling to US English so it is also possible that our punctuation is more streamlined than yours. In which case - view this missive form me as a message from your future. I don't have a BA but I am a writer and also an editor. Most of the time I work as a proofreader but sometimes I am needed to help tidy up text. There are some strict rules but as a writer, I also know when to choose to break the rules. Such as never starting a sentence with a preposition - sometimes theatrically it is necessary. Splitting infinitives is something we do on many occasions, often. As with tortology, which I just demonstrated in the previous sentence. We could get totally hidebound with rules and find outselves articstically retricted into the bargain. Some useful rules still in existence - use commas after each multiple adjective except the final one. So you could buy a delicious, pink, large, strawberry ice cream. "Ice cream" here is a two word complex which functions as a single noun for this purpose. However you shouldn't use commas after or before a conjunction. As a rule. So if you join two sentences and choose to write effectively, you shouldn't need to have a comma anywhere near the "and". I put one in after "effectively" because I chose to, I felt it needed the comma to avoid ambiguity and confusion. Part of the need to remove commas is a need to streamline text and make it easier to read. However, we still need commas as a form of mental "taking a breath", to let us know when to pause and know when to change mental inflection. Just remember that careful use of punctuation can totally change the meaning. "What is this thing called love?" can also be written as "What is this thing called, love?" What a difference a comma can make... Go find yourself a styles book in the writing section of your local library. In the meantime, if in doubt - ditch the comma. Streamline. Marg [/QUOTE]
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