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<blockquote data-quote="recoveringenabler" data-source="post: 604032" data-attributes="member: 13542"><p>Barbara, I am at work getting ready to leave to go to the market, acupuncture, prepare dinner, the usual kind of day...........and in pops your post, what a refreshing, interesting and REAL response..........I am enjoying your perceptions, thoughts and experiences immensely. </p><p></p><p><em>One good risk, deserves another.............</em></p><p></p><p>It brought to mind this statement an old friend of mine used to say all the time, which always made me laugh...........when we would have these kind of in depth discussions about life he would state that most of us live in a "<em>reality by agreement.</em>" ...........As if we all had a meeting and decided to hate certain people, form 'cliques' where certain folks are excluded, define hatred and intolerance in the same way, ...........just take a collective judgment, something we made up, and make it real......whatever it is........ It made me look at things a little differently.</p><p></p><p>Like that William Blake quote,"if the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite." We choose the limited view, the closed view, the small view...............we choose it, like we choose our responses to our difficult child's. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Barbara, I grew up with mental illness all around me, in fact, the majority of characters in my early life were way, way 'out there.' They behaved in bizarre and fascinating ways, which as a teen was so embarrassing I could hardly tolerate it then. However, as I got older (and had LOTS of therapy) I started seeing my siblings and my parents in a different light. The incredible straightforward honesty not covered up in social niceties, the remarkable ability to CREATE, music, art, poetry, architectural designs, my sister is an amazing artist and musician, my brothers too, as was my Dad. But, seriously, you wouldn't want to have lunch with any of them!! Not too much on the social scene..... but incredible in so many areas which if looked at from the frame of reference of "normal" these folks fall very short and would be open to intense judgment and criticism. For whatever reason, I have been quite intimate with what we call mental illness for my whole life...............and the colors, the richness, the depth and brilliance is staggering..........not often seen by regular folks, especially psychiatrists and the "system" where we are supposed to live in that reality by agreement where mentally ill folks are cast out, ridiculed, drugged and made to feel wrong and sick. So, yes, I agree with that therapist, we all want to be included and exclusion alone can make people sick. </p><p></p><p>I've tried all my life to be "normal" and still everyone around me thinks I'm eccentric or as my granddaughter says, "weird, not like the other parents or grandparents" Now it makes me laugh...............when I was younger, I tried harder to be more 'normal,' I sure as hell didn't want to go through what the rest of my family did.</p><p></p><p>I love the story of your daughter shaving her head, my my, how brave! I love her reasons for it too. And I understand how you would want your girl to be with a man who had his own plane, that protective mothering which overrides everything so we can make sure they are okay. It's good you're seeing your responses to her differently. Our daughter's are out there in the world orchestrating their own realities which have nothing to do with 'agreement'.............and we're busy in our mom worlds trying to 'accept.'</p><p></p><p>My daughter does everything upside down and sideways, refuses to do anything as I would or anyone would. There is a difference though with her, she has a side which lacks empathy and that hurts others, so I am not sure how to perceive that part. I'm still working on my own judgments about that. Now that I am out of the enabling part and she and I are learning to be separate and not enmeshed, I can see her a bit clearer. We'll see how that develops now.</p><p></p><p>I think in terms of mental illness, we are in the very early stages of understanding............perhaps we will be long dead before any real understanding and inclusion occurs on a cultural level. It reminds me of another quote, this one by by Arthur Schopenhauer, "All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Second it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident." I don't believe we've scratched the surface of our understanding of mental illness or that "electricity" which connects us all that you spoke about. I think it was Einstein who referred to the <em>Universal Field of Love.</em>...........where he accessed his ideas and theories. Interesting to think that the 'electricity' energy connecting us all is.........love...........what a concept. I think I'll make that <em>my</em> reality.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="recoveringenabler, post: 604032, member: 13542"] Barbara, I am at work getting ready to leave to go to the market, acupuncture, prepare dinner, the usual kind of day...........and in pops your post, what a refreshing, interesting and REAL response..........I am enjoying your perceptions, thoughts and experiences immensely. [I]One good risk, deserves another.............[/I] It brought to mind this statement an old friend of mine used to say all the time, which always made me laugh...........when we would have these kind of in depth discussions about life he would state that most of us live in a "[I]reality by agreement.[/I]" ...........As if we all had a meeting and decided to hate certain people, form 'cliques' where certain folks are excluded, define hatred and intolerance in the same way, ...........just take a collective judgment, something we made up, and make it real......whatever it is........ It made me look at things a little differently. Like that William Blake quote,"if the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite." We choose the limited view, the closed view, the small view...............we choose it, like we choose our responses to our difficult child's. Barbara, I grew up with mental illness all around me, in fact, the majority of characters in my early life were way, way 'out there.' They behaved in bizarre and fascinating ways, which as a teen was so embarrassing I could hardly tolerate it then. However, as I got older (and had LOTS of therapy) I started seeing my siblings and my parents in a different light. The incredible straightforward honesty not covered up in social niceties, the remarkable ability to CREATE, music, art, poetry, architectural designs, my sister is an amazing artist and musician, my brothers too, as was my Dad. But, seriously, you wouldn't want to have lunch with any of them!! Not too much on the social scene..... but incredible in so many areas which if looked at from the frame of reference of "normal" these folks fall very short and would be open to intense judgment and criticism. For whatever reason, I have been quite intimate with what we call mental illness for my whole life...............and the colors, the richness, the depth and brilliance is staggering..........not often seen by regular folks, especially psychiatrists and the "system" where we are supposed to live in that reality by agreement where mentally ill folks are cast out, ridiculed, drugged and made to feel wrong and sick. So, yes, I agree with that therapist, we all want to be included and exclusion alone can make people sick. I've tried all my life to be "normal" and still everyone around me thinks I'm eccentric or as my granddaughter says, "weird, not like the other parents or grandparents" Now it makes me laugh...............when I was younger, I tried harder to be more 'normal,' I sure as hell didn't want to go through what the rest of my family did. I love the story of your daughter shaving her head, my my, how brave! I love her reasons for it too. And I understand how you would want your girl to be with a man who had his own plane, that protective mothering which overrides everything so we can make sure they are okay. It's good you're seeing your responses to her differently. Our daughter's are out there in the world orchestrating their own realities which have nothing to do with 'agreement'.............and we're busy in our mom worlds trying to 'accept.' My daughter does everything upside down and sideways, refuses to do anything as I would or anyone would. There is a difference though with her, she has a side which lacks empathy and that hurts others, so I am not sure how to perceive that part. I'm still working on my own judgments about that. Now that I am out of the enabling part and she and I are learning to be separate and not enmeshed, I can see her a bit clearer. We'll see how that develops now. I think in terms of mental illness, we are in the very early stages of understanding............perhaps we will be long dead before any real understanding and inclusion occurs on a cultural level. It reminds me of another quote, this one by by Arthur Schopenhauer, "All truth passes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Second it is violently opposed. Third it is accepted as being self-evident." I don't believe we've scratched the surface of our understanding of mental illness or that "electricity" which connects us all that you spoke about. I think it was Einstein who referred to the [I]Universal Field of Love.[/I]...........where he accessed his ideas and theories. Interesting to think that the 'electricity' energy connecting us all is.........love...........what a concept. I think I'll make that [I]my[/I] reality. [/QUOTE]
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