Ex trying to force He-Who-Left-Family and Daughter to have Christmas together

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by MidwestMom, Dec 6, 2014.

  1. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    My ex can be a real meathead who does things for his own wants and needs, a lot like my father. I often wonder if that's why I married him. They are so alike. So here's the problem.

    Oldest Daughter rarely calls me upset, but she did today because ex is trying to force her and He-Who-Left-Family to have Christmas together. Scott was a big jerk to Daughter. They were very close once and when he met his spouse he dumped his sister like a bag of old garbage. I assume his wife was jealous of their closeness and he believes the Bible says your wife comes first and your real family is The Family of God. Anyhow, he broke her heart and I was there with her through it. He also had an altercation with Daughter and her currect SO and father of their child. He called them both names, said they both had no idea what a relationship was because they were screwing each other before marriage, and that their relationship would never last. That's just the tip of it, but it was ugly.

    Ex keeps trying to get the two of them to "make up." The problem is, Scott has no intention of owning up to what he did wrong, doesn't really WANT to have a relationship with Julie, and his wife is even more resistant. But ex has money and Scott wants to make sure he gets a piece of it, although he has plenty of money. Julie doesn't want to have a relationship with Scott as he hurt her terribly, dumped her, hasn't called her or sent her a Christmas card in eight years and her SO remembers the wrong prediction and hurtful words and wants NOTHING to do with him. There are kids now. Scott has two. Julie has one. So she called me crying and asking me if I could talk to my ex. I am probably the one who knows him best and can get through to him. I don't like to do things for difficult child 37 because he will overdepend on me, but Julie isn't like that. On top of it, ex suggested that Julie use her chef skills and cook for them all! Um...huh? She didn't even cook for Thanksgiving because of the baby. She said to me, "Like I want to cook for his family!!!" I figure this was ridiculous and I decided to help.

    I called him up and told him Julie was upset because of his Christmas plans, which not only included both estranged families getting together, but doing it at his house. Julie does not like to take the baby to other homes as she won't sleep except in her own crib. The only reason he didn't bully her into coming to his house for Thanksgiving was because he knew I'd be there and I'd stand behind her.

    I took the easiest route. I told him hubby, me, Jumper and Sonic were coming up on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. We aren't. We usually go a week before and have our own Christmas. But if my coming up on that day would stop his insanity, I was willing to go up there on the holiday. And I asked him if Scott would like to spend the holidays with ME.

    This is a problem for ex. Scott doesn't want ANYTHING to do with me, I don't have money that he wants to inherit, and, unlike Julie, I am not afraid of ex or Scott. Ex laughed and said, "You can't come in on Christmas." I said, "I can come in whenever I want to come in. I'm very flexible. If coming in on the holiday will either stop this or support Julie, we will all be there." Scott would never face the entire family. He's not that brave and hates drama.

    He got ticky and we had a few words where I kept repeating I'd come up if he tried to bully his daughter into this and finally he said, "Fine! I'll go visit 37!" I told him that was his choice. It actually would work out well. 37 will be alone for Christmas. He won't drive to Chicago and doesn't have his son. I don't think ex is really going to do that though.

    I do not normally meddle in these things, but Julie was incredibly upset and has not yet learned how to stand up to her rather eccentric, controlling father. She also feels very sorry for him because he lives alone and, in his retirement, is bored because he chooses not to volunteer, not to travel, not to move to a place with other retirees and basically to have no life at all. I explained to Julie that these are his choices...to be bored. He has excuses for why he can't have a life that are very creative. She is softhearted. She wants her dad to love her without strings. He does love her, but there are strings. He is a control freak too.

    I understand why ex wants his kids who live in Illinois near him to have a relationship, but it isn't going to happen if neither want one. Scott will not admit he did anything wrong. He has slandered his sister to his wife and she claims she is afraid of all of us and is very hostile.

    Funnily enough, he never tries to get Scott and 37 to even talk on the phone. 37 would tell him off so he doesn't bring it up. I mean, 37 would REALLY tell him off...lol.

    Too bad bullies go after the vulnerable.

    I feel good about intervening in this.

    My ex is suffering the consequences of not accepting what is. The one and only time he bullied the two of them into having breakfast together, Julie swore she'd never do it again, they barely spoke, and Scott spent most of what he DID say bragging about his money and the upscale preschool his four year old was going to. Most of the time ex, Julie, her SO and Scott ate in silence. Scott's wife did not show up. That is significant because she usually goes everywhere with him.

    I was happy to help out. I suspect ex will not try this again for a while.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2014
  2. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    You did the right thing. I know it was hard and I am proud of you for staying level headed and defending your daughter.

    Do you think this has to do with the new baby?

  3. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    It wouldn't shock me if he wants his grandchildren to form a bond, but it's mostly about him. He doesn't want to have to go to two different homes and really wants it in HIS home because it's easier. He was there last time when the two barely spoke to one another yet he's trying again, knowing Julie doesn't want it. I'm sure Scott has not been enthusiastic either. Who wants Christmas to be like that? Julie doesn't want her daughter compared in the way Scott will compare his boys...both being straight up Christians, which her daughter will not be, and having enough money to go to elite schools. Plus the two adults don't like each other, for different reasons. And Julie's SO hates Scott for what he said to him and to Julie...and obviously, with his beliefs, hasn't changed his mind. It's just stupid. Let them decide who to see and let it go. Your dreams and wishes can't be forced on others.

    At any rate, I would never have gotten involved if Julie hadn't called me, but she did, begging me to do something. She knows I can handle her dad. I'm not afraid of him. It didn't take any guts at all. But thanks.
  4. Scent of Cedar *

    Scent of Cedar * Well-Known Member

    Oh, I think it took great courage to look, and to see, and to act on what was right in someone else's defense.

    Very much so.

  5. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    thanks, Cedar.

    Ex has backed off of his wish to have Christmas at his house with both of them. I wonder why...hehe. Anyhow, Julie decided that Christmas Day was just going to be her, her SO and the baby and nobody else. So she is going to see ex on Christmas Eve, which will be just about when myself and us Wisconsonites are leaving to go back home. He is being obstinate about having Christmas Eve at his house. So finally Julie said, "That's fine, but Kaili can't sleep there so all we'll be able to do is come over, eat, and rush right home." He said that was all right with him.

    He just doesn't want to drive to her house, although it is only twenty minutes away and the baby really IS better off in her own environment, but whatever. At least he isn't bugging her to see Scott anymore.

    I'm glad we decided to take a different approach to holidays and celebrate them a week or so before/after the actual day. It makes it a lot less stressful for everyone. That way my family doesn't have to sit down with ex, who can gall on one's nerves. One holiday he kept bugging my husband, who is a car mechanic, to please change the oil in his car. After he was worn down, my husband did it, but he told me later, "I don't want to go over there anymore. I mean, it's the holiday and he's asking everyone to do stuff for him."

    It was a lot of gall for him to ask my husband to do that as they are not close.

    It is calmer to celebrate a week earlier without his presence. I guess I'm just getting picky about my peace of mind and protecting my family from that as well. I've had enough excitement and dysfunctional people in my life. If I can avoid it, I do. And ex is an extension of my dysfunctional family of origin. He is so much like my father that I'm sure I married him because he seemed so familiar. My father LOVED LOVED LOVED him. They were and are two peas in a pod, although I do think my ex treats his kids a lot nicer than my Dad treated us. Still, many similarities.

    Take care :)
  6. cubsgirl

    cubsgirl Well-Known Member

    I'm glad for Julie's sake that ex backed off. Great idea to celebrate the week before. We have had enough excitement and dysfunction to so we tolerate husband's family on Christmas Eve and stay home by ourselves on Christmas Day - it is heaven.
  7. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    It is. I never understand why those who dislike their family interaction or are always the butt of everyone's dysfunction don't do it like we do...loved ones only. And by that I mean, loved ones who are not mean, critical, blaming or the ones who ruin the fun. I've been doing this for over a decade, if not two decades. It has been fabulous. There is no drama on our holidays. Even when my Dad would drop by and do us the honor of his presence (never staying long) just seeing all of us...my husband, my two daughters and Julies SO, Sonic and Jumper were enough to keep him in control. He never acted up in front of them. I don't know why, but bullies don't like to be outnumbered and he knew that if he started up on me, everyone would have turned on him, something a bully never likes.

    I think it's wonderful just to have a quiet, restful, loving time for holidays. Who says it has to be on THAT date? Even if you a religious Christian, what's wrong with enjoying a wonderful church service with only family, then going home to eat with just the core of you whom get along? I never understood why some were drawn to chaos. The answers I get are interesting.
    "Well, I have to. My mother will be upset, even though she knows Aunt Josie will belittle me." ????

    "My kids need to see their cousins even though they usually see me in tears." ????

    "But Dad is afraid of what will Cousin Vincent will say if you don't show up. He is always saying you have an attitude and you have NO control over that kid of yours. I hope YOU can make him mind so Cousin Vincent doesn't tell everyone how horrible my grandson is." Oh, yeah. I really care about Cousin Vincent, about as much as he cares about me. But some people do. Go figure. Or they want peace in their family as opposed to personal peace amongst just themselves and their closest family members. I get it, but I don't understand anyone asking for that for any reason.

    Now if the family scene is pleasurable to you I understand it. I just don't get it if it's not. It's up to us how we spend our holidays.
  8. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    I gotta say, I am confused to who's who. I can't really follow the story, really wishing I could though :/
  9. InsaneCdn

    InsaneCdn Well-Known Member

    I've been following it for long enough to have a good handle on the cast of characters, but... it's not a "small cast"... somewhere between "Shakespearian" and "modern musical".

    Basically it's about MWM's ex trying to force two estranged siblings to spend Christmas together.
  10. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    We adopted a little boy from another country who lived in an orphanage. He was six when he came and honestly he never gave us any trouble when he was growing up, but he was obviously detached. He was brilliant (over-the-top IQ) and started building computers at age twelve. He decided not to go to college and to start out before everyone else and he did and now he is a millionaire with his own company, a wife, two kids, a pool in his back yard...the problem is, once he met his wife, a few arguments occurred, but nothing major. Still, he dumped his entire family and we haven't seen him in eight years. Growing up he had been very close to his sister, whom he dumped when wife came into the picture and at first it broke her heart, as it did all of us, but especially her. He also got very religious...too religious, in my opinion...and told Julie's current SO that they didn't have a relationship...they were just "screwing." I truly believe Scott was a virgin when he got maried and so was his wife. They never lived together and he was very vocal about how sinful it was to have out-of-marriage sex. He also thinks divorce is a sin. So he told Julie and Geoff that their sinful relationship wouldn't last. Haha...it lasted. Anyhow, it's been so long and he's changed so much and is so religious and materialistic I am fine with his being out of my life now. The little boy he used to be hurts, but he is nothing like that little boy now. He is very stuck up and self-righteous and wants nothing to do with us. So be it. He looks down at anyone who is not rich.

    Ex can't accept that his son and his daughter don't want to know each other anymore. It would be much easier for him if they got along. But Scott really went from doing EVERYTHING with Julie to dropping her like old trash and his yelling at her SO made SO hate him. Julie did see him once at her father's nagging and neither of them had anything to say to each other. Scott didn't bring his wife. That's significant as they are joined at the hip. She probably refused to go and he would never make her.

    Anyhow, none of ex's kids get along. 37 is his other kid. He wouldn't even dare ask 37 to see Scott because 37 would give him an earful that for once would be deserved. Maybe ex wants Scott and Julie to see each other now that they both have kids, but Julie flat out told me she did not want her daughter around him. One thing he did do when they were at that forced outing together is brag to her about his money and the expensive, elite pre-school his son is going to, and Julie has no tolerance for that. She isn't jealous of it. That's just something that she can't stomach...bragging and materialism. She told me, "We have NOTHING in common anymore." Also, she slipped up and said "Oh God" and Scott got very stern with her as his son was there and they NEVER say "Oh God" or anything like that in his ultra-religious house.

    Scott came at age six. That's really usually too old for a child to bond to a family in the right way. Scott didn't see ex for three years then he started to see him again, probably because he is loaded. Scott doesn't want to be left out of that will and his father, my ex, is sickly. My ex is also a Christian so they go to church together, although my ex is nothing near the kind of Christian my son is. My son keeps trying to get him to go to stricter churches with him and sometimes ex will go. Scott knows the rest of us would not be cool with that at all. Plus it gets old hearing that the woman has to listen to the man in a marriage...blah, blah, blah. Julie told me she doesn't need that sort of talk. I don't blame her.

    Anyway, Julie was very distraught when ex started badgering her to have Christmas with Scott and, not only that, but cook for him and his. She is a chef. Ex thought it was a GREAT idea. Julie didn't.

    So she called me up crying and asked me to please talk to him, as I know how to deal with ex better than anyone. I was happy to do the dirty work this time. There is a lot more, including one meeting me and Scott had at church that was supposed to attempt reconciliation. He was so vile there that I walked out of there afterward, not even near tears (I already hadn't seen him for five years). All I could do was shake my head and wonder who this man was...he wasn't the son I raised. I wasn't even upset. My thoughts were "I don't care if I ever see him again." And clearly that is what he really wanted to accomplish. He didn't want a reconciliation or he would never have said the things he did.

    Even 37 has never been as vile as Scott was that night. Of course his wife whimpered the whole time and, in general, I understand why Julie doesn't want to see him.

    Ex keeps trying to keep a hold on what his kids do and he does expect a lot out of them. He's a lot like my dad, sadly. At any rate, that's the short version of the story so you can imagine the long one...lol.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
  11. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    Thank you MWM. I feel like I have been waiting for that story forever for some reason and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me, I feel special now lol. I do have a question, I know you lightly broached the subject on how 37 feels about Scott, but how were they together when they were kids? I know he and julie were the closest, but how was 37 and Scott's relationship when they were kids and how many years are they apart?

    By the way, your stories help me recognize bull crap in my own life and how I shouldn't be tolerating it. My brother loves to brag the same way Scott does, but if I ever called him out on it or simply stated how I feel about it (I never did because I never wanted to appear jealous) but that's exactly what would everyone call me, jealous and I would be in the wrong for saying it, for speaking my mind. My brother is very pompous , arrogant and thinks he is King of this town. It is so laughable, I want to die. The people he associates with are weak minded losers (literally, losers) and if I had any interest at all in controlling them and using them like he does, I could do it very easily, EXCEPT I am NOT that kind of a person, but HE IS. I don't use and take advantage of people, but hey, the people in his circle seem to love his tyrant abuse. He says jump, and they ask how high. The worse part about this is that he is my YOUNGER brother by quite a few years and I won't lie, it's kind of humiliating for me. His seriously loser friends think they can look down on me (which is the most hilarious but infuriating thing at the same time). I'm just like you gotta be kiddin me. This has got to be a joke. I have got to be living in the Twilight Zone. These loser friends would still be living in their parents basements playing with their wee wee's all day if it wasn't for my brother. Anyway, that's another story for another time.

    My point is, that I GET IT. I now learn that it's ok for me to be offended, speak my mind and then distance myself. You all have no idea the crap I have to deal with when being around my brother. Everything he says is cocky and abusive. His loser friends are always around, from morning, noon and night. They are his employee's as well. My brother is never alone, he can't handle being alone even though he has a girlfriend and three kids. He admits he needs someone around at all times. He tells them all what to do, orders them around, and they do his bidding for him happily and if they don't do what he says, he will godfather slap all of them. All of his friends and girlfriends have been b*tched slapped repeatedly by my brother if they dare talk out of turn to him. He runs everything. He is the King of his little world. He is a legend in his own mind. You would never believe that a situation like this existed unless you seen it with your very own eye balls. I know what you mean when you say this is not the little boy that I once knew and loved. Never in my wildest dreams would I have ever even imagined that he would turn out this way. It's TOO much to even try to comprehend.
  12. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    And Oh please, don't even get me into their severe pot abuse! WEED is the center point of all of their lives. I have so many stories about this. It's just terrible. My brother, his girlfriend and all his other peoples will leave secretly to go smoke pot and say "gina (or whoever else is there at the time) watch the kids while we do it". Meanwhile, the kids will get frantic, "mommy , daddy WHERE ARE YOU!" And I'm not just talking about his kids, I'm talking about all of their kids. One time it got really bad, I was shaking because they accidentally (so they claim) locked me and the kids out of the house so they could go smoke (I don't smoke weed by the way) and the kids started to freak out , banging on the doors, trying to climb in through the windows, screaming. The adults in the house acted like they couldn't hear this and if they did hear it, they didn't care OR they really just have no idea what happens to their kids or how their kids feel when they are off in the other room getting high. I had zero control over them, they would not listen to me. They finally found a way in. All the adults came out of the bedroom where they were smoking except for my brother and his friend. About 20 seconds later, my brother and his friend come through the front door and winked at me like they were so cool because they out smarted the kids by jumping out of the bedroom window (so this way the kids didn't think anything too weird was going on if all the adults were in the bedroom) Him and his friend were REAL proud of themselves that they could be that sneaky and thought they were sooooooooooooo COOL for doing that. They walked in with real attitudes like they were bosses. I just lost it. I completely lost it after that. They hide their pot habit from their kids constantly and they think the kids are stupid, but they are growing up and getting wiser soon enough. Yet, these are the same parents that claim to be the best parents around town. My brother always get's up on his soap box claiming to be the best goddamn father around and he tells me that I AM A BAD PARENT! You just don't EVEN know.

    Anyway, that's my story and I hope I didn't make it all about me, I just started writing and couldn't stop. I wanted to show that I could relate to you MWM and how much you have helped me in realizing that I take way too much sh*t and I need to stand up for myself more and it's ok to stand up for myself. I also needed to vent too I guess
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2014
  13. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Just a short reply for now.

    Scott came when 37 was six years old. 37 had acquired an instant twin. It took me maybe one hour to figure out that this was the worst decision my ex and I had ever made. Since 37 couldn't amuse himself, we thought he'd like having a brother close in age. Wrong. If I ever made a horrible parenting choice, it was that one. 37 started picking on him from Day One, and, at the same time, kept telling me, throughout his childhood, that ex loved Scott best. He was right too. It's still true. Scott never did anything wrong and legally he still doesn't. So all through 37s childhood, after Scott came, all he heard from my ex was, "Why can't you be like Scott?" For that I feel very badly for him and it was part of the reason I divorced him, although hardly the only reason.

    There is no drug use with Scott. Never was. Actually, 37s issues were not substance abuse related either when he was very young.

    I want you to understand that Julie is a lot like you. Although she won't put up with Scott for what he has done to her, she won't call him out on his stuff either. There's no reason to do it. She just stays away from him. That's how she handles it.

    I also want to say that I understand Scott. He was born in a country where being an orphan is like being nothing and they don't adopt there. I saw, as he grew, that he refused to stay a nobody, in his mind. He was going to be a success and "better" than everyone else and he has the smarts to do it. I commend him for that. He can't help that he lived in an orphanage for six years and has problems with attachment. I am glad his life is fruitful.

    I just don't know him anymore. And that's exactly what Julie said. And she wants to keep it that way. He hurt her very deeply, is not sorry, and will continue to throw his money in her face. That doesn't make him a horrible person. He is coping the best he can with having grown up for six years in an orphanage, getting no love. He is not quite sure how to love. He either can't love or loves too intensely...and that's what being adopted at such an old age did to him. He does not and can not think of us as family. I get it.

    GM, I do think it is important to learn that we can distance ourselves from those who are not nice to us, even if it's our family. In fact, it usually is! I hope your brother does not encourage your daughter to smoke weed. But you are doing what you have to do to take care of yourself...you can't live with your daughter who gets violent. She will have to deal with the weed problem herself. I see what you mean now by part of your family thinking there is nothing wrong with weed. We had a lot of stuff in our family, but substance abuse wasn't one. It may be the only issue we did not grow up with!
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
  14. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    GM, it's ok to vent. As I write this I learn things myself too, such as that 37 isn't really all that terrible as difficult children go. He actually has a forgiving heart and tells me that his upbringing was good, in spite of Scott. He says Scott was the only mistake I made and does not say "and it's a big one." He was troubled before we got Scott, but afterward he had to deal with this sudden brother who was handsome, brilliant, and charismatic and started taking all of his friends away to the point where we decided, with the school, to put them in two different schools. I am grateful to 37 for not holding this against me. He actually loves me very, very much and thinks I was a good mother most of the time. His problems are strictly when he is under stress. Then he can not control himself from saying horrible things and losing his temper.That's when the abuse starts rolling out in spades. When he is not under pressure, we actually get along really well.

    I'm beginning to think that maybe I was too hard on him. Yes, he has problems, but not as badly as some difficult children. He proved he's not a drug addict, even to Xanax, but quitting his benzos with a doctor's help and he has cut down drinking to very little, so he says. He could be lying, but I don't think he is. When he drinks too much, I can tell on the phone. As for recreational drugs, my son won't even date a girl who smokes pot. This happened recently. He met a girl who he really liked until she told him she smoked weed. He told her that's a dealbreaker...he was not going to risk losing his son by having him around weed...and that was that. He can be very selfish...but his son comes first and nobody is allowed to do anything that he feels may not be good for his child.

    His worst behaviors, such as stealing and conning people, were a long time ago.

    Sometimes just writing, like you and I are doing now, gives us a good perspective on things. And exchanging ideas can also open our eyes to other possibilities of how we can look at certain situations. So thanks for letting me vent.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
  15. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    No, my brother absolutely does not approve of my daughter smoking weed and would NEVER offer it to her. NEVER in a million years. My whole point to my brother is, he thinks the kids don't see what he does or knows about it. He hides everything, lies to them, etc. etc. That behavior in ITSELF is toxic. That behavior in ITSELF will cause a lot of anger in the kids. He is a GOOD dad despite his problems All his children are exceptional and raises them correctly, making sure they are straight A students, involved in every sport , dotes on them with lots of love. Could he even be a better father? Yes. Pot head, Anger problem, He has a terrible work schedule, goes out with his friends too much, has his friends around too much even though he is sure to spend lots of time with his kids. But somehow, somehow, he finds a way to be a really good father and he brags about this. His famous words are "I can do anything and everything, have my cake and eat too and no one can stop me" The problem is his attitude and when my nephews grow up, they are still very young, under 10 years, they will not be controlled the way he wants them to be controlled. ESPECIALLY his youngest. Oh I see some VERY heated fights in the future between my brother and my youngest nephew. My nephew is just like HIM and you can tell that my nephew, although loves my brother, doesn't really like him at all. That is one of the kids who will not do anything my brother says and it will drive my brother insane.

    Anyway, back to my daughter. My brother would NEVER offer her weed. The only problem she is running into is that the house smells like weed. My brother and his girlfriend smoke so much that they are not even aware of the smell. It just really p*sses me off that they have the audacity to walk around like they are the best parents in the world and will put you down, when they live in a glass house. Their attitudes are just sickening but don't worry, Karma will come their way and then I finally can say I told you so for all the times my brother put me down as a mother. Wait until his kids are teenagers. Do you know my brother is the only one who has ever put me down as a parent? He will pay for that, not at my hands, but at Karma's hands.
  16. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    And thank you for explaining your story to me. Very interesting , all of it. I had no idea that they were the same age at that 37 had to deal with that kind of a brother from a young age. That had to really suck to have a brother who was better at everything and got more love and attention from dad.
  17. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Well, yeah, Scott just excelled at everything and was handsome and outgoing too. 37 was popular, but Scott took his friends away so we quickly put them in separate schools where they both could thrive alone. When I saw how horrible 37 was reacting to Scott, whom I expected him to "show the ropes" to and be a friend to, I truly have to admit I wished I could send Scott back, but you can't do that. I felt I had ruined 37s life forever. Scott was not the scared, poor little waif I'd expected. He was confident and not frightened and stole 37s thunder.

    Even though I still think it was a big trauma for 37, 37 never uses that as a reason why he did the stuff he did. He insists he had a good life except for Scott, but doesn't throw it at me or anything, even in his worst rages.

    And I did grow to love Scott. He was a very sweet and rewarding child. But he was always very detached. He never wanted me to do the mommy things most young kids want from their mothers.

    To be totally honest here, Scott was mismatched. When a child is adopted and that old, you'd think the social workers would be very careful about who they match him up with, but they just wanted to get him out of the country he was in. Scott would have thrived more in a very high IQ household where the father was a high earning professional and very intellectual. Instead he got my ex who was very detached himself and did not make a lot of money. His money was inherited after his mother passed away. I am just a regular person who is more creative than intellectual and I never went to college. However, most of my DNA family, including 37, are extremely high IQ. Scott looked up to his friend's parents who had the huge mansion, the doctor's label, the hot brand new car and he was rarely home. I don't think the adoption agency should have allowed us to twin kids either. We thought it was a good idea back then (ex and me), but they are the professionals and should have said, "That won't work" and assigned a different, younger or older child, to us. It WAS hard for 37, although he was very smart too and had a lot of friends. Scott's friends were high achievers. 37s were the troublemakers and he was brains behind the group.

    Neither Scott nor 37 have ever liked or respected one another. My ex is so incredibly biased towards Scott because he made money that both 37 and Julie have mentioned it to me often through the years. Yet Scott is not that interested in ex. He includes him in his life in a minimal way, at his own convenience, under his own terms.

    When we adopted Julie, on the other hand, 37 was already seven and a half and he was enamored of his little sister and adored her until she got a little older. Then he started teasing her. One day he took the head off of her favorite doll, stuck a knife through it, put ketchup on the knife and stuck the doll's head and the knife that was through the head onto the wall and laughed hysterically when Julie started screaming hysterically. Those are the kinds of stuff we dealt with regarding 37. He also used to do not-so-nice things to Julie while I was at work after I divorced ex and Julie, always very private, did not tell me about it. She was afraid of him. She NEVER forgot what he did to her doll. It was really scary to me. I couldn't believe he did something like that. It wasn't the only time he did things that were weird like that either.

    Since 37 teased Julie when I was at work, Julie tried hanging around Scott and they got very close for many years. Scott kind of used her when he went to parties and socialized as he was shy to tears around girls and she was sort of a support system. Every girlfriend he ever had was jealous of how close he was to Julie, including his now wife. Julie, who knows him the best, tells me he was always "a robot." That is how she explains him, as one with no emotions.

    This is how all three of them became estranged. Julie was bullied by 37 so she is just done with him as she does not think he is normal. And he wasn't or isn't or both. Scott dumped his sister right after he met his current wife, even though Scott and Julie used to be so close that he took her in when we threw her out. But then, when she did not behave the way he liked, he started calling her and her boyfriend nasty names. This was during his Christian conversion. He had not always been religious. The church he goes to is not your normal regular church. It is very extreme.

    All in all, I don't feel a need to force my kids to get along. I'm not even sad that they don't. That is between them. And my family with Tom, my current husband, is great. Jumper and Julie gt along well and everyone loves Sonic too, so we get to see more of a family unit then ex gets to see. Our family holidays usually include Julie, SO, now the baby, my husband, Jumper and Sonic. Ex has to go from Julie's house to Scott's house if he wants to see them both and 37 is in MIssouri. So I see why he wants his two kids who live near each other to get along, but I know it is never going to happen.

    The first wonderfully functional household I ever lived in was with my beloved husband Tom and our two children, Jumper and Sonic and Julie got a lot of that too as Tom loves her very much. It is hard to believe it but we have been married almost twenty years now and we lived together two years before that. Since he came into my life, the constant chaos has disappeared and he gave me all the space and time I needed to heal myself. Both Jumper and Sonic think they had an "awesome" life. I feel badly that 37 and Julie had it harder and I don't think anything I did would have made Scott attach to us in the right way. He was already formed by the time we adopted him. I always tell people who ask me about it to adopt the youngest child you can. I don't believe any kid you adopt too old can have a normal attitude toward attachment. But that's a whole other topic.

    Haha, I'm enjoying our cyber-talk. I'm glad you joined the board :)
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
  18. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    So you adopted Jumper and Sonic with your now current husband?
  19. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Yes. And we, plus Julie and her family, are a family. And we all get along. It's heavenly to have peace.
  20. GuideMe

    GuideMe Active Member

    Ok, got it. :)