Fall out

[rejectedmom]

OH boy things just get worse and worse. It seems that when I hung up on difficult child 1 when she called last week and told me that I couldn't see my grandson difficult child called my easy child 1. easy child 1 was on her way to a funeral and insead of saying she couldn't talk let difficult child 1 start. Well things deteriorated and easy child 1 just told me that difficult child 1 has cut her off from the baby also. difficult child did this because easy child 1 knew that I was planning on sending the shower thank yous and that makes her guilty in difficult child 1's eyes even though easy child 1 told me she didn't think it was a good idea. Evedently difficult child 1 got easy child 1 so upset she hung up and then difficult child called back and left message on the answering machine. It was not nice so easy child picked it up hung up and put it on do not disturb so the children would not hear it. easy child 1 was still shaking an half hour later when her husband came home.

easy child 1 says they have been comunicating by e-mail but that they have not reconciled because difficult child 1 wants an apology not an explaination and easy child 1 doesn't feel that she wants to apologise or grovel when she is not guilty of anything. easy child 1 is not she certain that she even wants difficult child 1 in her life anymore. easy child 1 says it is time that difficult child 1 is made accountable and aware of how toxic and ungrateful she is. I told her that difficult child 1 is a diagnosed narcissist and that prevents her from seeing herself as she really is. easy child would not listen to anything I had to say. I tried to tell her what a good person she was and that she is not guilty of doing anything wrong and that she needs to find a way of dealing with difficult child 1 without givig up a piece of herself. Evidently while she was talking to me she got another e-mail from difficult child 1 saying that she was still waiting for an apology and some other things I was not made privy to. easy child 1 broke into tears said she couldn't talk about it and hug up on me. I feel horrid I e-mailed easy child and told her that I would accomodate her and serve both a brunch and a dinner so she and her sister didn't have to be here at the same time. _RM

 

[DazedandConfused]

I told her that difficult child 1 is a diagnosed narcissist and that prevents her from seeing herself as she really is.

What you wrote above just jumped out at me. It's so true and there's no fighting or reasoning with it.

I'm so sorry for easy child. This is absolutely absurd what difficult child is expecting and how she is acting. She's got an extremely powerful weapon now: your grand child.

she needs to find a way of dealing with difficult child 1 without giving up a piece of herself

Her way may be to just say, "Enough is enough. I'm done".

I know I'm probably way out here by myself and because I had a narcissist father I'm sensitive to those that are hurt by them, but it just never got better with age. It only got worse. It didn't mean there were some good times, there were but I finally just couldn't take anymore of the drama, manipulation, and the cruelty. The outrage over small issues and the failure to see his behavior as hurtful and destructive. It hit me that he was simply NEVER GOING TO GET IT. I held out for years that he was going to get it, too. Once in a while when I would bring it up, he always managed to turn it around to be someone elses or, usually, my fault.

I stopped all contact. That didn't mean I would hang up if he called, but I was very distant and vague. Since I did most of the contacting, I didn't hear anything for years.

Frankly, I would tell difficult child to step off. I wish I had done that at least ten years before I did with my Dad.

 

[rejectedmom]

As a child easy child 1 being the eldest and the peace maker became my "little helper" and I regretfully was forced to rely on her much more than I wanted to or should have. husband was totally checked out and away from home more that he was home.

There were many times I had to send easy child outside or to another part of the house to take care of the younger children when difficult child 1 was raging. difficult child 1 would destroy property and turn the other kids into punching bags if I didn['t put up a physical a barrier to it.

I have told easy child 1 how I regret this and I have apologized many times. She just says "mom you did the best you could. I had a good childhood for the most part and you gave me many opportunities and choices."

I hate to admit it but easy child 1 had so much become my parenting partner that she didn't want to go away to college for fear of what would become of me and the boys. I forced her to go and told her it was time she had her own life and that she needed to live her own dreams.

As for difficult child 1 about six years ago, after a violent episode with her then fiancee and now husband (she was violent not him) difficult child 1 entered into therapy. They went to a therapist regularly for three years, After that they cut back and went for two more years on an as needed basis. They broke off with this therapist just before she got pregnant with my grandson. (difficult child 1 told me that the therapist didn't think she and her husband were ready to be a parents but I do not know if this is the reason they stoped seeing her).

Up until then, difficult child 1 had been doing better. She hadn't been physically violent for years and was not as demanding and manipulative in general.

Unfortunately both I and easy child 1 are still haunted by the past. We remember how physical difficult child 1 used to be. Because difficult child 1 seems to be back in a full narcissistic phase we had concerns she might regress further. We wanted to stay involved. Admittly, we did bend to her more these past months than was comfortable but the thought was that if GFG1had our support and a chance for respice if she needed it, she would be a good mother and gain confidence in herself and her abilities. Our present concern is that we do not feel difficult child 1 is coping well. In addition her husband is plum worn out by her nit picking and outbursts. He actually lost his temper a couple of weeks ago and told her that she is being hateful and used the "B" word.

While I don't condone this I do understand his frustration. It has been one difficult child storm after another for about ten months. Most of them directed at her sister in law. But truly no one has bee spared.

She is constantly critisizing her husband for not living up to her unrealistic expectations and it was just a matter of time before he snapped. After her husband's outburst, difficult child 1 got all huffy and gave him the cold shoulder. To smooth things over he bought her an expensive ring as a "mommy" present. Gifts often calm her down for but only until she finds another reason to be angry. easy child and I have fears that sister in law will have enough and want out entirely is things don't change.

We were hoping that once difficult child 1 went back on her hormones we could approach her about getting back into therapy. in my opinion difficult child 1 shouldn't be without access to a therapist for life. When she doesn't have one she tends to rely on the advice of her not so stable friends.

But right now easy child says she is tired of it all and has had enough. She thinks she just wants out and I understand. I've had those thoughts myself. -RM

 

[Suz]

RM, it's way past time for difficult child to reap the consequences of her actions. If she is hateful to you, you need to back off. If she is hateful to easy child, easy child needs to back off. in my humble opinion, give her the gift of learning to miss both of you and appreciate both of you. She has to learn that using the baby is not acceptable at all.

Suz

 

[katya02]

RM, I'm joining the conversation late, but having a couple of narcissists and BPDs in the family, I can say that stepping back is the best thing you can do - and it won't mean being cut off. BPDs respond to people stepping away from them by frantically trying to reestablish contact and the old patterns. Narcissists may let things go longer, but they also try to hoover you back in to play their games again. So you needn't fear losing touch - that's not as easy as it looks!

I think Suz has hit the nail on the head. difficult child 1 needs to learn that using her baby to manipulate family is not acceptable.

 

[rejectedmom]

Suz and Katya, I do want to have that "not using the baby for..." conversation with her but I know that while she is in an outraged mindset she will not listen. I thought I would hold off until things are calmer? The thing is that I have not had much luck with her accepting boundries. She is very good about setting her own but totally disregards those set by others. So I have been doing my reading and not finding a heck of alot of info for my situation online. I actually read one article that said that Ishould mirror her and if she rages so should I. Well I know that isn't going to work as I have seen that dynamic between her and her once friends. It gets real ugly real fast. I am open to suggestions for this dialog or should it be a monologue? I just don't know anymore.
(sigh). That is what NPD's are so good at... making you second guess yourself.

 

[mom_to_3]

I've had similar "conversations" with my difficult child. If your contact is mostly on the telephone, I do believe that either I wouldn't answer her calls or if you do, the minute any ranting, raging or negativity or threats begin, interrupt her and tell her you'll talk to her when she's ready to be civil. Whatever you do, don't beg or plead for her to straighten up or act appropriately. That behavior needs to be her realization. And you DO realize that an arguement or disagreement cannot happen if TWO people ARE NOT participating?

 

[Suz]

I am open to suggestions for this dialog or should it be a monologue?

Neither.

Ignore her.

Don't answer the phone for awhile, or if you do, don't engage in anything other than superficial conversation.

And if you do get on the phone with her, take charge of the conversation. If she gets upset about something/anything, don't feed into it- tell her you have another appointment and have to hang up...tell her anything, but get off the phone.

No lectures.

Nothing personal.

No invitations to get together.

No references to your grandbaby.

Review the PE Archives thread and practice your "bobblehead" responses...or keep them by the phone to remind you. Here's the link to the thread:

http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/showthread.php?t=685

DO. NOT. ENGAGE.

Suz

 

[janebrain]

I agree with Suz. I see no point in having the using the grandchild conversation with her. I really think it will not achieve anything and won't keep her from doing it. I like Suz's advice a lot--do not engage!
Jane

 

[Marcie Mac]

Suz has excellent advice. My eldest hasen't been diagnosis'd with anything cept depression, but am sure she suffers from a lot more than that. If she gets in a snit, the baby card is pulled out. It doesn't matter if the snit is with me, or one of the three dads of her kids, or her brothers, she starts the "you will never ever see (insert name of child or all three) again.

We all, me especially, have gotten tired of her antics. Her brothers want no contact with her whatsoever after what she pulled on them-and they were always her biggest supporters when she had to remove herself from a messy situation with drug addicted boyfriend. I have been humilitated one too many times and give her no chance whatsoever to ever do it again. I no longer do the Rodney King speech,the one that goes "Can't we all just get along" cause its just not possible.

I keep in touch every two weeks or so just to see how the gkids are doing. Its a very superficial conversation - no chats about anything personal - If I didn't call, I would never hear from her, and she only lives a few miles from me. I have been called twice as an emergency babysitter, and I go cause I enjoy spending time with the grands for a few hours and seeing them, even though SO and her brothers see that as me enabling her. But its not about her, its about me and spending time with my gkids.

Its hard to put a much loved child at arms distance,but it does get easier as time goes by. There is no chance "the you will never see" card is pulled on me as there are no disagreements.

Marcie

 

[rejectedmom]

I called easy child! today and asked her if she wanted to spen the day doing something fun. She agreed and we went antiquing looking for a mantle for her house and we had lunch out.
We had fun and yes we found a maybe that her husband is going to check out on Saturday.

She told me that she employed her yoga training in her dillema with difficult child 1 and that she sent her an e-mail ant gave difficult child what she was looking for in a way that easy child 1 was comfortable with.

When I got home I had a very nice message on the machine from difficult child 1 thanking me for the flowers and asking that I call her back. I was a bit hesitant but Iher tone was pleasant and she seemed upbeat so I did.

Well like Katya said it would be if I stepped back, the ban was short lived. I haven't talked to her nor have I called for a week. Today difficult child 1 acted like nothing had ever happened and chatted plesantly for about a half hour. No mention of her sister no mention of anything unplesant no complaining. That is the usual MO. I didn't ask her if she was comming I just talked as if she was. Then at the end of the conversation I told her to give my grandson a sqeeze for me and she said "of course" Then she did just as many others predicted and asked if I thought I would be well enough to BABYSIT ON MONDAY (I have been sick for about a month but am much better now).
I told her I didn't have anything on my calendar but I needed to check with husband.

So, as I usually suggest to others, I will grab my joy when I can and I will cuddle that new grandbaby Monday night, (I had nothing planned anyway). I will have my Christmas Eve dinner here with all my children and then have New Year's with my friends in DE. For now there will be peace in my home. Such a roller coaster. Never a dull moment around here. Such is life with a difficult child and I have 3!

I thank all my CD family for you never ending support and good advice. It is very much appreciated. I will take all the advice given here and apply it to future situations as needed. Narcissists do not change easily if at all so teaching lessons isn't in the grand scheme of my relationship with this daughter. I will give nothing of myself that I am not willing to give and you all help me figure out what I am willing to give. -RM