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Family of Origin
Family of Origin (FOO) Support Thread Part 2
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 663186" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p>Oh, Copa. I am so sorry this is happening to you both.</p><p></p><p>D H would do this, when we were going through the worst of it. I learned to say "Is that how you meant to talk to your own wife?"</p><p></p><p>I learned to say "I feel so badly for myself, and for us both."</p><p></p><p>I learned to say "I am sorry this happened to you. You are such a fine man, and this never should have happened to us ~ not to you, and not to me."</p><p></p><p>The first time I said those words, Copa? Is one of the few times I have seen tears in D H eyes. (Well I mean, he gets tears in his eyes at movies sometimes, but never, ever, in real life.)</p><p></p><p>Ever.</p><p></p><p>Except then.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You are not doing anything wrong, Copa. You are in the midst of a living nightmare. You child is self destructing. Though he needs you desperately, your child is at the same time going off the tracks psychologically from the effects of illicit drug use. First goes empathy. Then, integrity. And then, our children forget that they ever loved us. They begin to hate us, instead. We are their mothers. They are so deeply ashamed of the men they have allowed themselves to become. But they are trapped in their addctions, Copa, and cannot get out alone. So, we stand up. And that is a very hard thing. And we fall apart in every other aspect of our lives, but we function as we believe we must around all things having to do with our children.</p><p></p><p>And then, they hate us for that.</p><p></p><p>You are standing up admirably, Copa.</p><p></p><p>It is the situation that is so horribly wrong. </p><p></p><p>On the shopping: Only you can know for sure, but I believe you posted to us that you had ordered in excess to have a selection of items from which to choose and that you intended to return those things that did not please you.</p><p></p><p>I remember your joy in the pretty new things that had arrived.</p><p></p><p>M is wrong.</p><p></p><p>You acted with intent.</p><p></p><p>On the son: M is taking the attitude men do take. Either stay on it and fix it, or turn away. Son did not do what M offered, either. Son wants what he wants which, at this point, seems to be to service his addiction in peace while desecrating the loving relationship he once had to his mother so he doesn't have to feel badly about destroying her life to service his addiction.</p><p></p><p>There has to be something like that going on with all our sons, Copa. They come to hate us so vehemently...as much as, before their addictions took hold, they loved us.</p><p></p><p>Shame has to be part of that. I cannot shame my son into standing up as the man I raised him to be when he is using. When he is using...he is not that man.</p><p></p><p>He hates that I know that.</p><p></p><p>He hates me <em>because </em>I know that.</p><p></p><p>So, the way I see it, your son's behaviors are all wound up in addiction and the shame of it and the shame of being the man he is instead of the man you believed him to be.</p><p></p><p>You can't fix that.</p><p></p><p>M cannot fix it, either.</p><p></p><p>D H would not believe it, either. After I had been on the site long enough to stand up to my son, D H took over. Like M, D H was "on it". He drove three hours one way twice weekly for something like six weeks. Maybe longer. I was not allowed to be part of it because I had messed up so badly in the past "babying D H son". He got everything cleared up for son one last time. (Licenses and impound fees and etc.) He brought food, not money. Frozen broccoli, chicken, dog food for the dog and etc. These were the same kinds of food we had brought for son together the last time we saved him but not really.</p><p></p><p>On the saving him part, I mean. </p><p></p><p>Know what the upshot was?</p><p></p><p>Son spits at us, to this day: "WHAT WAS UP WITH THAT F-ING BROCCOLI?!"</p><p></p><p>It is son's contention that, as is the case with so much of his life, though broccoli is what we provided, broccoli was not what he needed, to thrive.</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p>We always brought son groceries that, frozen so that he could eat at his convenience, were also rich in Vitamin C and blah blah blah.</p><p></p><p>Ahem.</p><p></p><p>The point being that D H could not fix son's addicted person behaviors, either.</p><p></p><p>That is probably why son hates us to this very day whenever he is using.</p><p></p><p>D H and I were just talking about that broccoli business last night. It seems hilarious to us now.</p><p></p><p>But we did not think it was funny, then.</p><p></p><p>One day? I may send my son a nice, big package of frozen broccoli. and it wasn't those boxes of squished up broccoli either, you guys. It was those packages of flash frozen broccoli heads.</p><p></p><p>Just to clarify a point.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Copa, I know this is not supposed to be funny, but I get the biggest kick out of the way you see things. "It is only a slight manipulation because...."</p><p></p><p><img src="/community/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/Graemlins/rofl.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":rofl:" title="rofl :rofl:" data-shortname=":rofl:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That is a man's way, Copa. If they can't get the thing under control, they kill it.</p><p></p><p>D H does that too, about everything.</p><p></p><p>That is why I had to learn to say all that stuff I posted about earlier. They don't mean it. That is just a man's way. "There. Now it's dead." Remember Tony Montanna in Scarface? "Meet my little friend!"</p><p></p><p>He goes down, fighting.</p><p></p><p>A man.</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]a_z4IuxAqpE[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>The guy in the background? The one who finally does Tony in?</p><p></p><p>That's me.</p><p></p><p>:O)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>That could be a good thing too, Copa.</p><p></p><p>Take a vacation, instead.</p><p></p><p>Just a week on the beach, off season.</p><p></p><p>Perfect.</p><p></p><p>That is what D H and I would do. And I would lay around in the sun without hardly any clothes on and feel ever so much better.</p><p></p><p>Real estate is coming back, so some people say, Copa. Those who take the risks make the money. It takes a set of brass appendages to stay with it.</p><p></p><p>"Let me win. If I cannot win, let me be brave."</p><p></p><p>Timothy Shriver</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 663186, member: 17461"] Oh, Copa. I am so sorry this is happening to you both. D H would do this, when we were going through the worst of it. I learned to say "Is that how you meant to talk to your own wife?" I learned to say "I feel so badly for myself, and for us both." I learned to say "I am sorry this happened to you. You are such a fine man, and this never should have happened to us ~ not to you, and not to me." The first time I said those words, Copa? Is one of the few times I have seen tears in D H eyes. (Well I mean, he gets tears in his eyes at movies sometimes, but never, ever, in real life.) Ever. Except then. You are not doing anything wrong, Copa. You are in the midst of a living nightmare. You child is self destructing. Though he needs you desperately, your child is at the same time going off the tracks psychologically from the effects of illicit drug use. First goes empathy. Then, integrity. And then, our children forget that they ever loved us. They begin to hate us, instead. We are their mothers. They are so deeply ashamed of the men they have allowed themselves to become. But they are trapped in their addctions, Copa, and cannot get out alone. So, we stand up. And that is a very hard thing. And we fall apart in every other aspect of our lives, but we function as we believe we must around all things having to do with our children. And then, they hate us for that. You are standing up admirably, Copa. It is the situation that is so horribly wrong. On the shopping: Only you can know for sure, but I believe you posted to us that you had ordered in excess to have a selection of items from which to choose and that you intended to return those things that did not please you. I remember your joy in the pretty new things that had arrived. M is wrong. You acted with intent. On the son: M is taking the attitude men do take. Either stay on it and fix it, or turn away. Son did not do what M offered, either. Son wants what he wants which, at this point, seems to be to service his addiction in peace while desecrating the loving relationship he once had to his mother so he doesn't have to feel badly about destroying her life to service his addiction. There has to be something like that going on with all our sons, Copa. They come to hate us so vehemently...as much as, before their addictions took hold, they loved us. Shame has to be part of that. I cannot shame my son into standing up as the man I raised him to be when he is using. When he is using...he is not that man. He hates that I know that. He hates me [I]because [/I]I know that. So, the way I see it, your son's behaviors are all wound up in addiction and the shame of it and the shame of being the man he is instead of the man you believed him to be. You can't fix that. M cannot fix it, either. D H would not believe it, either. After I had been on the site long enough to stand up to my son, D H took over. Like M, D H was "on it". He drove three hours one way twice weekly for something like six weeks. Maybe longer. I was not allowed to be part of it because I had messed up so badly in the past "babying D H son". He got everything cleared up for son one last time. (Licenses and impound fees and etc.) He brought food, not money. Frozen broccoli, chicken, dog food for the dog and etc. These were the same kinds of food we had brought for son together the last time we saved him but not really. On the saving him part, I mean. Know what the upshot was? Son spits at us, to this day: "WHAT WAS UP WITH THAT F-ING BROCCOLI?!" It is son's contention that, as is the case with so much of his life, though broccoli is what we provided, broccoli was not what he needed, to thrive. :O) We always brought son groceries that, frozen so that he could eat at his convenience, were also rich in Vitamin C and blah blah blah. Ahem. The point being that D H could not fix son's addicted person behaviors, either. That is probably why son hates us to this very day whenever he is using. D H and I were just talking about that broccoli business last night. It seems hilarious to us now. But we did not think it was funny, then. One day? I may send my son a nice, big package of frozen broccoli. and it wasn't those boxes of squished up broccoli either, you guys. It was those packages of flash frozen broccoli heads. Just to clarify a point. Copa, I know this is not supposed to be funny, but I get the biggest kick out of the way you see things. "It is only a slight manipulation because...." :rofl: That is a man's way, Copa. If they can't get the thing under control, they kill it. D H does that too, about everything. That is why I had to learn to say all that stuff I posted about earlier. They don't mean it. That is just a man's way. "There. Now it's dead." Remember Tony Montanna in Scarface? "Meet my little friend!" He goes down, fighting. A man. [MEDIA=youtube]a_z4IuxAqpE[/MEDIA] The guy in the background? The one who finally does Tony in? That's me. :O) That could be a good thing too, Copa. Take a vacation, instead. Just a week on the beach, off season. Perfect. That is what D H and I would do. And I would lay around in the sun without hardly any clothes on and feel ever so much better. Real estate is coming back, so some people say, Copa. Those who take the risks make the money. It takes a set of brass appendages to stay with it. "Let me win. If I cannot win, let me be brave." Timothy Shriver Cedar [/QUOTE]
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