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Family of Origin (FOO) Support Thread Part 2
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<blockquote data-quote="Scent of Cedar *" data-source="post: 663877" data-attributes="member: 17461"><p><em><em></em></em></p><p><em><em>"Perhaps the phoenix cries, as it burns."</em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em><em>Charles Williams</em></em></p><p><em><em>Descent Into Hell</em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>It will be alright, Copa. This is part of the healing. I feel like that for a time too, after I have taken a stand about anything. We have broken through a taboo in standing up for ourselves. Where we usually have all those voices in our heads assuring us we have done the right thing when we've sold ourselves out again, there is shocked silence. This silence we will step into, wide open and free.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>This is where the self will be, this emptiness.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>I know this because it happened to me. Now, if I could only know how to get out of these italics.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p>1) You could not have left. It is a question of integrity. One cannot go running from therapist to therapist because she does not want to hear what they have to say.</p><p></p><p>2) Like me Copa, though the therapist was not a very talented or moral person as evidenced by his behavior in taking money for a service he knows full well he is incapable of rendering...the betrayal here was from you to yourself.</p><p></p><p>Once we can see this Copa and SWOT, once we see the workings of it...things begin to fall into place in the most amazing way.</p><p></p><p>***</p><p></p><p>I think you could not have left. I did not leave that first therapist. That would have been a foolish thing to do. A person does not enter therapy intending to fire the therapist and hire someone else if she doesn't like what the therapist says. That is where the issue of therapeutic trust comes in. The patient trusts the therapist, believes in him or her, or therapy cannot work.</p><p></p><p>So, you were not wrong to trust the therapist. </p><p></p><p>You were very correct to stay with the therapist with whom you began therapy.</p><p></p><p>He was very incorrect in having claimed that he could help you when he could not.</p><p></p><p>You and I should both be getting our money back as a matter of principle.</p><p></p><p>roar</p><p></p><p>Anyway. I did not leave my therapist Copa, and neither did you. Good for us. That is therapeutic integrity. The money we gave those men was supposed to guarantee, not only that they would not hurt us but that they could, and would be pleased to, help us come through something very dark and scary and that was the deal and r.o.a.r.</p><p></p><p>And our childhoods were dark and terribly scary, Copa. And those therapists were frauds. And they took our money and worse than that, they wasted our time. Our precious, precious time, when we needed to heal and were doing our part and more toward that objective.</p><p></p><p>See how I have changed in how I see that first therapist, now?</p><p></p><p>I am quite put out with his incompetent self. Either he could do as he promised (or else why charge me money to do it) or he was a fraud. Like Bernie Madoff. Trading money for ersatz trust. <em>***On rereading after posting I read: ersatz lust. Oh, that bad therapist.***</em></p><p></p><p>I am getting better around the issues left by that therapist. You will, too. I am almost on an equal par with him, now. Before, for all these years, I was so far beneath him, Copa.</p><p> </p><p>Where was I going with this. I was going to say something helpful I swear but then? I got distracted.</p><p></p><p>Ahem.</p><p></p><p>I trusted him. It was his job to tell me true things that would help me to heal. So of course I could not leave him. I would probably still be seeing that little weasel to this day. He left me, Copa. Left the city, the state, and the mainland itself. </p><p></p><p>An ocean away.</p><p></p><p>Pretty suddenly, too.</p><p></p><p>So. Had you said "You are not (after all this time) the correct therapist for me.", that would have been a betrayal of self, Copa. </p><p></p><p>You did not do that. </p><p></p><p>Which turns out to have been unfortunate for you either way. If you left, you had not therapeutic integrity. If you stayed, you were betting on his.</p><p></p><p>But he was a predator. He had no integrity.</p><p></p><p>And that is an awful, hurtful thing.</p><p></p><p>Ouch, Copa. Like, a sacred ouch resonating through Time.</p><p></p><p>As that first therapist betrayed me (and I still can't figure out what he meant, or why it would be inappropriate or unexpected that a patient would be manipulating the therapist to beat the band ~ anything, to not have to face whatever it is we have spent our lives avoiding. For heaven's sake. If I ever do go into therapy again, I m going to tell that therapist right off the bat that I intend to manipulate him or her.</p><p></p><p>Good for me.</p><p></p><p>I'm glad I did that.</p><p></p><p>Therapists are supposed to be able to bring, and bring us back safely from, <em>wherever </em>we need to go to complete our healing.</p><p> </p><p>So, I accept the manipulator term.</p><p></p><p>I don't know what he meant, but the way I see it, he must have known what he was doing, so we will leave it at that.</p><p></p><p>But Copa, this is what I did to myself over what I thought I heard <em>and though I accuse the therapist now of betraying me...that is not what he did. I did that, Copa. </em></p><p></p><p>I did not demand clarification. </p><p></p><p>I did not demand to know what therapeutic objective we were working for here, on my dime, that he should be affixing labels that, while I might not be able to know exactly how to apply them, seemed to imply that one was not as savory or well mannered as one might hope . <em>I simply accepted what I felt: rejection from someone I needed to know had my back</em>. You are more honest than me. First, he said: "My daughter sometimes engages in seductive activities. This is not her fault. I would never...."</p><p></p><p>And then, quick as that: "You are a manipulator. I would never trust the compliments of someone like that."</p><p></p><p>So it is true that whatever he was doing, he did it on purpose, and he did it to hurt me, and he took me into a child state of mind before he did it and that was on purpose. It is true that whatever "manipulator" meant, I took it to mean something sexual, <em>something I was doing to him against his will. </em>He was the freaking therapist. That is why he got money and I had to pay money. And I always knew that? But I was just so ashamed that he called me a manipulator.</p><p></p><p>Which is definitely not a nice term to be labeled by your own therapist, who is supposed to be trustworthy or why would you see him.</p><p></p><p>Around and around.</p><p> </p><p>Now listen what I did <em>to myself</em> with whatever it was this therapist, who was not a therapist at all but a holistic physician, a person who should have been specializing in things like gluten intolerance and biofeedback, meant when he said I was a manipulator and he would never trust the compliments of someone like that.</p><p></p><p>And before I go any further? This was a short, pudgy little person I would not have remembered at all, had he not become almost godlike to me through the course of my therapy. he had to be godlike to be bigger than my mother. Your therapist had to be godlike to you Copa, to be bigger than your abuser, to protect you and put the fear of God into your abuser. </p><p></p><p>The point being that as far as I can remember, I did not compliment him.</p><p></p><p>It could have been the poetry.</p><p></p><p>I suppose that is what it was.</p><p></p><p>Sometimes I have to laugh at my confusion regarding these issues.</p><p></p><p>Thank you for reading, Copa and Serenity. I feel like a dufus.</p><p></p><p>On we go, then.</p><p></p><p><em>Shunned </em></p><p><em>as it was written</em></p><p><em>When that which was to be was yet </em></p><p><em>concealed</em></p><p><em>but for the rhyme</em></p><p></p><p>Okay. But I had not been shunned. I had been insulted. There is a difference. Not only did I not step up for myself, not only did I not assume there was a therapeutic purpose here, but I took it from "You are a blah blah blah to "shunned".</p><p></p><p>Betrayal of self #1</p><p></p><p><em>Labeled...false; and labeled</em></p><p><em>Liar</em></p><p></p><p>That part is true. A manipulator would be a liar. But here again: Why did I accept the label, the judgment: Liar <em>from someone I was freaking paying to help me? </em>Liar is not a helpful term if you don't know what you are lying about. Or, that you are lying. <em>Do you see me doing it again? He did not call me a liar. I called me a liar.</em></p><p></p><p>Whatever. I am quite certain this is somehow the therapist's fault.</p><p></p><p>On we go.</p><p></p><p>So. Betrayal of self #2 </p><p></p><p></p><p><em>The criminal</em></p><p><em>newly wakened</em></p><p><em>Wonder</em></p><p><em>at its crime</em></p><p></p><p><em>Threatened</em></p><p><em>should she rise, or fall</em></p><p><em>Condemned</em></p><p><em>that she should move, at all</em></p><p></p><p><em>Accused and </em></p><p><em>ostracized and</em></p><p><em>...small</em></p><p><em>A blind and savaged Child recall</em></p><p><em>its first and bloodied tears</em></p><p></p><p><em>Metallic</em></p><p><em>copper colored fears....</em></p><p></p><p><em>Recall shattered reflections ~</em></p><p><em>insane turnings and twistings</em></p><p></p><p>The rest of this is pretty obvious stuff re: self betrayal over something that probably was not meant to have the effect that, in his clumsiness or counter transference or whatever it was, this therapist said.</p><p></p><p>I did that to me. Everything else, I did to me and it says so, right there in the poetry.</p><p></p><p>Back to you, Copa.</p><p></p><p>The self betrayal as I see it: was in believing that if you stood up to the therapist he would tell you true things that he knew. Things your mother knew, or your abuser knew, and you knew but could not bear to know; things he knew, for you. That is what you needed from your therapist, Copa. That he could know the things you know and help you know you knew them in a way that would not destroy you.</p><p></p><p>And you have been brave and strong and unflinching as steel since that stupid therapist messed everything up for all those long, long months and years.</p><p></p><p>He should have told you, Copa.</p><p></p><p>Should have referred you to someone who could do what needed to be done.</p><p></p><p>I swear, if I did not know better? I would say that stupid first therapist was afraid of me.</p><p></p><p>That must be a "transference". Or a reflection. A measure of my own fear, really.</p><p></p><p>That stupid therapist.</p><p></p><p>Now, why could he not have made that clear to you, that this would be how you would feel, and give you the tools to counter the feelings, the betrayal of self.</p><p></p><p>Because he was a really bad therapist, that's why, Copa.</p><p></p><p>You can be free Copa, free as a bird; a phoenix or a beautiful, powerful, predatory bird with ribboned jesses and bells on her ankles.</p><p></p><p>The therapist was wrong, Copa. He was an incompetent boob in every way that mattered <em>or you would be better.</em> Look how far we all have come in this short time.</p><p></p><p>He was incompetent Copa, and he hurt you. But like my therapist too, he could only hurt you through rude boorishness. </p><p></p><p>The rest?</p><p></p><p>We did to ourselves, Copa.</p><p></p><p>So...we can undo it any time.</p><p></p><p>And we will.</p><p></p><p>Cedar</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Scent of Cedar *, post: 663877, member: 17461"] [I][I] "Perhaps the phoenix cries, as it burns."[/I] [I]Charles Williams Descent Into Hell[/I] It will be alright, Copa. This is part of the healing. I feel like that for a time too, after I have taken a stand about anything. We have broken through a taboo in standing up for ourselves. Where we usually have all those voices in our heads assuring us we have done the right thing when we've sold ourselves out again, there is shocked silence. This silence we will step into, wide open and free. This is where the self will be, this emptiness. I know this because it happened to me. Now, if I could only know how to get out of these italics. [/I] 1) You could not have left. It is a question of integrity. One cannot go running from therapist to therapist because she does not want to hear what they have to say. 2) Like me Copa, though the therapist was not a very talented or moral person as evidenced by his behavior in taking money for a service he knows full well he is incapable of rendering...the betrayal here was from you to yourself. Once we can see this Copa and SWOT, once we see the workings of it...things begin to fall into place in the most amazing way. *** I think you could not have left. I did not leave that first therapist. That would have been a foolish thing to do. A person does not enter therapy intending to fire the therapist and hire someone else if she doesn't like what the therapist says. That is where the issue of therapeutic trust comes in. The patient trusts the therapist, believes in him or her, or therapy cannot work. So, you were not wrong to trust the therapist. You were very correct to stay with the therapist with whom you began therapy. He was very incorrect in having claimed that he could help you when he could not. You and I should both be getting our money back as a matter of principle. roar Anyway. I did not leave my therapist Copa, and neither did you. Good for us. That is therapeutic integrity. The money we gave those men was supposed to guarantee, not only that they would not hurt us but that they could, and would be pleased to, help us come through something very dark and scary and that was the deal and r.o.a.r. And our childhoods were dark and terribly scary, Copa. And those therapists were frauds. And they took our money and worse than that, they wasted our time. Our precious, precious time, when we needed to heal and were doing our part and more toward that objective. See how I have changed in how I see that first therapist, now? I am quite put out with his incompetent self. Either he could do as he promised (or else why charge me money to do it) or he was a fraud. Like Bernie Madoff. Trading money for ersatz trust. [I]***On rereading after posting I read: ersatz lust. Oh, that bad therapist.***[/I] I am getting better around the issues left by that therapist. You will, too. I am almost on an equal par with him, now. Before, for all these years, I was so far beneath him, Copa. Where was I going with this. I was going to say something helpful I swear but then? I got distracted. Ahem. I trusted him. It was his job to tell me true things that would help me to heal. So of course I could not leave him. I would probably still be seeing that little weasel to this day. He left me, Copa. Left the city, the state, and the mainland itself. An ocean away. Pretty suddenly, too. So. Had you said "You are not (after all this time) the correct therapist for me.", that would have been a betrayal of self, Copa. You did not do that. Which turns out to have been unfortunate for you either way. If you left, you had not therapeutic integrity. If you stayed, you were betting on his. But he was a predator. He had no integrity. And that is an awful, hurtful thing. Ouch, Copa. Like, a sacred ouch resonating through Time. As that first therapist betrayed me (and I still can't figure out what he meant, or why it would be inappropriate or unexpected that a patient would be manipulating the therapist to beat the band ~ anything, to not have to face whatever it is we have spent our lives avoiding. For heaven's sake. If I ever do go into therapy again, I m going to tell that therapist right off the bat that I intend to manipulate him or her. Good for me. I'm glad I did that. Therapists are supposed to be able to bring, and bring us back safely from, [I]wherever [/I]we need to go to complete our healing. So, I accept the manipulator term. I don't know what he meant, but the way I see it, he must have known what he was doing, so we will leave it at that. But Copa, this is what I did to myself over what I thought I heard [I]and though I accuse the therapist now of betraying me...that is not what he did. I did that, Copa. [/I] I did not demand clarification. I did not demand to know what therapeutic objective we were working for here, on my dime, that he should be affixing labels that, while I might not be able to know exactly how to apply them, seemed to imply that one was not as savory or well mannered as one might hope . [I]I simply accepted what I felt: rejection from someone I needed to know had my back[/I]. You are more honest than me. First, he said: "My daughter sometimes engages in seductive activities. This is not her fault. I would never...." And then, quick as that: "You are a manipulator. I would never trust the compliments of someone like that." So it is true that whatever he was doing, he did it on purpose, and he did it to hurt me, and he took me into a child state of mind before he did it and that was on purpose. It is true that whatever "manipulator" meant, I took it to mean something sexual, [I]something I was doing to him against his will. [/I]He was the freaking therapist. That is why he got money and I had to pay money. And I always knew that? But I was just so ashamed that he called me a manipulator. Which is definitely not a nice term to be labeled by your own therapist, who is supposed to be trustworthy or why would you see him. Around and around. Now listen what I did [I]to myself[/I] with whatever it was this therapist, who was not a therapist at all but a holistic physician, a person who should have been specializing in things like gluten intolerance and biofeedback, meant when he said I was a manipulator and he would never trust the compliments of someone like that. And before I go any further? This was a short, pudgy little person I would not have remembered at all, had he not become almost godlike to me through the course of my therapy. he had to be godlike to be bigger than my mother. Your therapist had to be godlike to you Copa, to be bigger than your abuser, to protect you and put the fear of God into your abuser. The point being that as far as I can remember, I did not compliment him. It could have been the poetry. I suppose that is what it was. Sometimes I have to laugh at my confusion regarding these issues. Thank you for reading, Copa and Serenity. I feel like a dufus. On we go, then. [I]Shunned as it was written When that which was to be was yet concealed but for the rhyme[/I] Okay. But I had not been shunned. I had been insulted. There is a difference. Not only did I not step up for myself, not only did I not assume there was a therapeutic purpose here, but I took it from "You are a blah blah blah to "shunned". Betrayal of self #1 [I]Labeled...false; and labeled Liar[/I] That part is true. A manipulator would be a liar. But here again: Why did I accept the label, the judgment: Liar [I]from someone I was freaking paying to help me? [/I]Liar is not a helpful term if you don't know what you are lying about. Or, that you are lying. [I]Do you see me doing it again? He did not call me a liar. I called me a liar.[/I] Whatever. I am quite certain this is somehow the therapist's fault. On we go. So. Betrayal of self #2 [I]The criminal newly wakened Wonder at its crime[/I] [I]Threatened should she rise, or fall Condemned that she should move, at all[/I] [I]Accused and ostracized and ...small A blind and savaged Child recall its first and bloodied tears[/I] [I]Metallic copper colored fears....[/I] [I]Recall shattered reflections ~ insane turnings and twistings[/I] The rest of this is pretty obvious stuff re: self betrayal over something that probably was not meant to have the effect that, in his clumsiness or counter transference or whatever it was, this therapist said. I did that to me. Everything else, I did to me and it says so, right there in the poetry. Back to you, Copa. The self betrayal as I see it: was in believing that if you stood up to the therapist he would tell you true things that he knew. Things your mother knew, or your abuser knew, and you knew but could not bear to know; things he knew, for you. That is what you needed from your therapist, Copa. That he could know the things you know and help you know you knew them in a way that would not destroy you. And you have been brave and strong and unflinching as steel since that stupid therapist messed everything up for all those long, long months and years. He should have told you, Copa. Should have referred you to someone who could do what needed to be done. I swear, if I did not know better? I would say that stupid first therapist was afraid of me. That must be a "transference". Or a reflection. A measure of my own fear, really. That stupid therapist. Now, why could he not have made that clear to you, that this would be how you would feel, and give you the tools to counter the feelings, the betrayal of self. Because he was a really bad therapist, that's why, Copa. You can be free Copa, free as a bird; a phoenix or a beautiful, powerful, predatory bird with ribboned jesses and bells on her ankles. The therapist was wrong, Copa. He was an incompetent boob in every way that mattered [I]or you would be better.[/I] Look how far we all have come in this short time. He was incompetent Copa, and he hurt you. But like my therapist too, he could only hurt you through rude boorishness. The rest? We did to ourselves, Copa. So...we can undo it any time. And we will. Cedar [/QUOTE]
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