Feeling Sad!

[Marcie Mac]

Stands, I hope you make your therapy appointment because it will help a lot processing your feelings - its easier to cope with things when you learn where it is comming from. I have spent a lifetime of feeling bad because I couldn't fix whatever was going down, especially with my youngest who seems always to be teetering on the edge of disaster at times.

I totally understand how you feel - unless you have a full blown case of co dependency its really difficult for others to understand, the overwhelming urge to wanna "fix", and the frustration that comes from "feeling bad, or sad" pretty much 24/7. It pretty much becomes an obsession - what if I did this, that or the other and no matter how insane the idea may seem to others, its an idea to a codependent worth entertainng, mulling over, thinking about - except there is some small part of you that knows its "crazy talk" and there is nothing about the situation that is under your control, but it doesn't help any knowing that, the whole codependent thing overwhelms any common sense.

I am getting better as I get older - but it is still really a struggle some days. Feel free to PM me if you would like to chat - our boys are the same ages I see - I no longer post much about my youngest (or oldest LOL)

And go to that therapy appointment

Marcie

Marcie

 

[DammitJanet]

I also feel that I understand the angst that Stands feels. Some of the people who have been posting to her havent walked that mile in her shoes...some have. Really until you have faced that exact experience of having to watch your child (no matter their age and no matter the reason) being carted off to jail, you really cant truly understand how it shakes you to your very core.

I actually have been the one to call the cops on Cory so many times. Im the one who had what looked like SWAT practice in my front yard because he pushed me too far one too many times. I was a blubbering basketcase because even though I knew this needed to be done, I was terrified that he would end up shot by some gun happy cop. And that it would be my fault for putting the whole thing in motion. I also turned him in and revoked his probation because I knew it was the fastest way to stop his downward spiral and knew they would be able to serve him fast in jail on the check charges. I had to stay right on top of them to even get that done. He doesnt know I revoked him to this day. I couldnt even be in the house the morning it was going to happen. I called them from my bedroom to tell them he was asleep on the couch and then I left. Billy stayed home to babysit. I drove down the road and met up with the bondsman and showed them where to turn and then I hid until I saw them bring him out. I cried like a baby. I was on the phone with Jamie the whole time just sobbing. It hurts. This was my baby boy I was doing this to and it was something I never thought I would do when I held that little newborn. I didnt sleep in my house for 2 days. I couldnt go home.

I know I did the right thing but even the right thing hurts horribly. I have second guessed myself a dozen times. I keep coming back to the conclusion that what I really wish I could have changed was what ever it is in him that allowed him to make those bad decisions...but I cant. If I could have loved him into changing, forced him into changing, found a treatment that would have worked...I would have done it. I gave him my best and if that wasnt good enough then he is going to have to find his best from inside him. Now its his turn to try.

If he messes up and gets sent to prison, I am going to cry for him. I will be upset. I will rant at the injustice of it all that he ended up with some wrinkle in his brain that allows him to think the way he does...but I cant change him. I cant do the time for him and I wont. I will love him. I do with all my heart. I dont always like him and I often hate his choices but he is my son and as long as he is alive I will hope he will get with the program. I will not interfere on his behalf though. He has to deal with his consequences.

I told him once...you know Cory I ran in front of you for years trying to put up roadblocks with flashing flares to warn you of the path you were on and to stop you...you wouldnt listen to me. You thought you were better than everyone else. I cant do that anymore. You have to learn you ARE everyone else and the rules apply to you too. Its up to you how long you take to learn that.

 

[meowbunny]

I'd have a lot more sympathy and empathy if Stands weren't trying to supply her son with drugs. This is where everything flies out the window in my mind. She does it when he's out, she tries to do it when he's in.

Yes, it is hard to basically let your child sink or swim. I don't if you guys remember when I first joined and my daughter had joined the carnival. The advice was to let her go. Ultimately, I couldn't do that. Things went back to the way they were. Then she became a tenant in her own home. She asked for it to be a family, I caved and we tried again. Things went back to the way they were. I finally said this is it. You have until the end of the month to find another place to live. It killed me to say those words. However, I remembered the advice I was given here and knew you guys were right -- I had to let her sink or swim on her own or accept that she would continue walking all over me.

Stands refuses to even really try. I get upset with her because everyone who has used drugs, been around their children who used drugs, been around others who were addicts, everyone who knows an addict has told her the same thing over and over and over -- you have to let him sink. He has to hit bottom and then start crawling out on his own. Until then, bailing him out, giving him help, letting him come home, etc. hurts HIM. It gives him one less chance or reason to stay straight.

So, my sympathy is long gone. If Stands chooses to help her son die, then I'm going to fight for her son in the only way I know how. By reminding her over and over that what she is doing is against everything she's been told here. That giving drugs to her son is enabling. That the best thing she can is let him find his bottom. I wish there was some sympathy left, but there isn't.

 

[witzend]

I wasn't going to say any more, but I have to say that Stands' position isn't all that different than most of ours. Yes, I saw my son carted off to jail. Yes I wanted to interfere with every little iota of his life and control everything and everyone around him. It's painful to watch Susan go over this again and again, and absolutely the continual trying to provide him with his drug of choice goes just too far. Especially for someone who is an educated person. She has a Master's Degree. She should know better. She does know better because everyone has told her so.

I wouldn't offer my opinion or knowledge to her if I didn't want her to make a better life for herself. She's too much like what most of us would be if we didn't at least try something other than wallowing in self-pity and shame. I've been there, you've been there, and we don't want to see anyone be there. It's a kick in the teeth to go through this with her time and time again when she won't take any advice, she just wants us to tell her how sad her life is and how to make her son better.

Let me say this very clearly so there is no mistake. Her life is no sadder than anyone else's. She's not ever going to make her son better. She could be happier if she tried. That's on her. A true friend would stop putting it on us. I sincerely hope that she will seek professional help, because it is not right of her to continue to ask it of us.

 

[Nomad]

I was happy to read that you mentioned going to a therapy appointment for yourself. Are you going regularly? This is important. You might actually bring up words like "co-dependency" and "detachment" and get your therapist's opinion on these topics. Is there a families anonymous group in your town? I don't recall if you mentioned anything about this previously. Do you have other people in your life who you respect and trust who can be supportive? Many here will lend a caring supportive ear, many will offer good advice, a few will be frustrated or even bitter...but your issues need much care. Most of us have sought additional support from the experts. We all grow at our own pace...but it is important to move forward. This will require much effort on your part. It is almost like going to school again. You might even consider taking a notebook with you when you go to your appointments and take notes. Read what you wrote in between apointments. Also, ask what books your therapist might suggest for you to read for "homework." If you want to feel stronger and happier...this is what will be required. It is important to initiate your own efforts to get better. After all, isn't this the basic problem your son has in life? That he can't help himself? How about taking that step to help yourself feel better by getting regular therapy and following the advice provided (even if the therapist is subtle). Look at the answers provided here on this thread and if something sounds right to you, do take it seriously. I promise you that with personal and consistent effort, you will feel better. Life has much to offer, but it requires effort. This is okay and well worth it. Do your homework and find out about the joy out there. It is unfortunate about your son at this time. Let that go. Your role for him is limited now. He needs to do work. By working on your own needs, and being strong and happier...you will be a positive example for him and actually in the end provide more hope for him in due time. In the mean time, you will be more productive and happier. Wishing you well.

 

[DammitJanet]

Its very true that none of us can make our kids better. Only they can do that now. If we could have done it, we wouldnt be here. Band-aids and kissing boo boo's simply doesnt work anymore.

I think there is a very real component of co-dependency that goes on until we can break that cycle. Some are better at it than others and do it earlier. For some it takes professional intervention and therapy. Its taken me a long time to realize that I am not my son. His actions dont have to effect my emotions.

 

[catwoman]

No one is making fun of you. We've all been there, all of us have hurt just as you are hurting. You are addicted to chaos. You can't conceive of the idea of letting him go completely and possibly not having him in your life at all, so you'll continue to deal with things as you always have. At least he's in your life. Been there, done that. Eventually the pain will become so great that you will have no choice, you will have to let go.

 

[DammitJanet]

Catwoman....that is very profound...about the chaos and being afraid that its either this or not having him at all. Very profound. You have given me something to think about myself.

I try to get something out of each of these threads that I can use in my own life.

I think I am a bit afraid of losing my kids completely too. Now if someone would have told me I would said that 10 years ago I would have called them a liar! Now though, I worry that Jamie will get killed or hurt with his job (or being sent overseas) and then that leaves Cory and Billy. I worry constantly that I will bury Cory because of his choices. Again...something I cant do anything about...but a worry none the less. It would really hoover to lose both boys for different reasons. That may be why I do put up with some behaviors that I shouldnt.

This board is good for reflection.

Stands...I hope you are reading this so you can see that you are not the only one who has a problem separating themselves from their child. We can do it though...one step at a time.

 

[standswithcourage]

Yes all the posts are good for me. However I was not giving my son drugs. The drug prescriptions that I showed the mental health lady at the jail were so she would just know he had prescriptions - she did not take them from me nor would they give him any narcotics. I talked with her for a while and told her he did not need to take the medications that the psychiatrist gave him. I dont know why you thought I gave him drugs. That is obsurd. Anyway, today I am scared for him. I am not at the hearing - obvious. I do appreciate your comments.

 

[Big Bad Kitty]

Nobody thought that you gave him street dope. You said you were bringing him his medicine. The only medicine that you have ever told us that he is on is Xanax. Which is as BAD as the street drugs because he abuses it. And it is equally absurd for you to have brought the Xanax to him as it would have been if you brought him a joint.

 

[Star*]

Stands,

It's okay to be worried about him. You are after all, his Mom.
I can tell you from experience that it is a waste of your time to try to talk to ANY of the nurses in prison. Here's why -

The drugs that prisoners are given in prison are paid for by the state. The state will NOT give anything that is not on their "paid prescription" list. It's a perpetual quagmire because with inmates who have say schizophrenia - the medicine that will actually help a lot of them isn't on the list so.....they get something generic that really does not help. Which in turn keeps their behavior out of control, which in turn keeps them in prison.

In your son's case - I want you to think back to before your husband bailed him out. He had not been on any drugs, he was of a fairly good mind and thought process, no alcohol to mask his behaviors. And when he talked to you and husband what did he tell you that made so much sense that made your husband go get him? He was going to the ministry rehab place. He wanted to get better. He couldn't stand to be in jail and would do whatever to get out. And...he got out.

Now, HOW LONG was it after he got out that he had a supposed panic attack? We know this was a drug seeking behavior. Then he thought he twisted his leg - again a drug seeking behavior. This time for pain pills. First time for something to "calm" him.

Then he started hanging out with all the people he told you and husband he would NOT be contacting. Then in a matter of days, not weeks, but days - he really didn't want to do the rehab thing for whatever reason. And I can understand the employment thing but how long did it take him to disrupt YOUR house? And you live there, husband lives there and your other son lives there. THIS is the only place that YOU, your husband and your younger son have to live -

Your older son, had a choice - to abide by YOUR rules, seek employment, stay in rehab, and in a matter of no time - he was back to his old habits.

So in order to break those habits - you made the choice to put him back into jail. In jail - he shouldn't get drugs, maybe he's got someone convinced he needs them the psychiatrist perhaps? Do you know how much actual time a jail house shrink gets to spend with our kid? About a minute - how in the heck can they make a diagnosis properly? They can't.

I don't want you to be my xmil Stands. I don't want you to turn into the enabler she was, which ruined not only my sons life, but my life and ultimately her OWN sons life. She kept trying to fix things, she kept listening to him whine about not having any money for food for us - then would go spend it on drugs and women...leaving me and a baby to starve. only to return a few days later with the same sad story - and off again he'd be with her money or MY money.

This cycle went on my entire marriage - it ended up with my x even selling my sons toys to finance his drug habit, my jewelery and each time -Mom would always be there to bail him out and tell him it was okay. And it wasnt' okay - because what she created was a 52 year old psychopath who abused his wife, sold his kid for dope, and has no idea how to live in the world now that she's not there with her checkbook to bail him out. And THAT is sad - but THAT is the reality of a co-dependent.

HE was SO dependent on her he had NO idea how to live his life. It cost him his home, his wife, his son, and eventually it will cost him his life because lets face it - at 52 if you haven't figured out how to stay off drugs, booze, and stop your destructive behaviors the outlook is grim.

So what sets him and your sons future apart if you can't find a way to stop enabling him? Maybe the fact that your kid is a lot nicer or maybe only 28 years.

I'm not writing this to evoke your sympathy or make you mad or frustrate you. And largely - it's MY reality or what was. But for the rest of MY life - I will try as hard as I can to forgive my xmil for what she did to me and my son and MY family - MY SHOT at a life, MY TIME - NOT hers - she had hers, she raised a family. THAT was my time - and she would NOT let go and let him fall on his face and take his lumps because she felt guilty that she couldn't fix him - so instead she constantly tried to do little fixes his whole life - and look how it turned out -

He's homeless, he's jobless, he's in and out of jail, he's mostly suicidal, and homocidal, he's still on drugs, he's STILL drinking and he's STILL beating up on women. Nothing has changed for him. And she died at 68 after investing her ENTIRE LIFE in this kid - she had 5 and GOT NOTHING for her devotion to myx, nothing - he never changed despite her pleas, crying , begging - and she had other kids, and grandkids that suffered so much because instead of loving the people who wanted her attention she gave it ALL to him.

I cant' speak for anyone else here - I wouldn't begin to try - but from my heart Stands the message I want to get across to you today is FIND a way to save your SON by allowing him to take his lumps. IT hurts, it's hard, I HATE IT WITH A PASSION of 110 people.....for my own self. And I dont' like not having control over my sons life even at 18 - it bugs me -

But after I watched my xmil do to HER son what she did I KNEW there was NO way i would be responsible for ruining his life - or his future familes life. I truly wanted him to be happy - and than meant life smelling quite a bit more on my part - as I feel I had ALREADY lost enough.

Maybe something in all that will help you find the strength to allow your son to find his own level feet, and someday give YOU the pleasure of knowing that despite the pain - YOU stepped back and allowed his life to happen the way it will.

I hope someday Dude will live the kind of life that makes him happy and somewhere in it all one day Il'l get a hug for no reason without explaination - and I'll know I did right without asking. I'll be able to see it.

I wish that for you and your son Stands - I really do.
Since he's not willing to let go - maybe you have to.

Hugs
Star

 

[ScentofCedar]

I would feel sad too, Stands ~ and frightened and ashamed and confused and alone.

Witz?

Stands is not wallowing.

Stands is grieving what is happening to her child RIGHT NOW, TODAY.

Not a one of us was able to turn away, or to stop the obsessive search for some missed solution, until we had exhausted every possible opportunity to make a difference for our children.

I couldn't.

When finally I could see, husband couldn't ~ and as everyone here knows, we went through the whole thing again.

And again.

We had to help difficult child during that time, so husband could face himself in the mirror in the morning. Like me when I did not understand, husband had to know that if he had truly lost his son, he had done every single thing he could before he turned away.

It is when that search, with its attending hope, ends, that we begin making an effort toward addressing our own lives, our own pain, our own changed understanding of what this child's life is and will be.

That is when we become angry, and that, I think, is when we begin to heal.

Perhaps Stands' pain is too raw, and spikes a defensive chord in some of us.

I always wished there were some kind of armband, or some other form of public display, which would alert others that we were grieving and in pain over whatever loss it is we are suffering, so that those we interact with in our personal and professional lives would know to treat us gently.

Like every one of us here, Stands will heal in her own time.

I don't understand what it is everyone is asking Stands to do, here.

She did all she could to help her son choose a better path. HE chose not to honor the commitments he made to she and her husband.

Now, the situation is out of her hands.

How could she not be grieving, today?

She is watching her child suffer.

It never mattered much to me that difficult child had chosen to place himself where he was. He is my son. I love him.

When he suffers, I suffer.

I am his mother.

The difference is that I get it now that helping is not helping.

What I needed from those around me as I learned the skills necessary to parent an addicted child was assurance that, just as they had survived it, I would, too.

************

Grief is grief.

Unless we honor and work through it, we cannot heal.

Barbara

 

[ScentofCedar]

And on a more helpful note....

Disallow the feelings, Stands. When you become aware of the pain, remind yourself that you HAVE done all that you could.

Truly, it is out of your hands.

Your son cannot come home again.

Wherever he goes and whatever he does probably will not be pretty.

But how he spends his life is his choice, Stands.

He gets to choose.

It helped us to remind ourselves just what it was we would need to see from difficult child before we would help him again. As long as we saw anything else, we promised ourselves we would not help him.

If my difficult child chooses addiction, then I choose not to see him.

I was serious when I posted that husband and I told our son we had no intention of watching him destroy himself.

Jail is what happens when the addiction wins out ~ or prison, or something worse.

Review the phrases the others taught me, Stands, so that you will have the words and phrases you need to protect yourself from your son and his pain as he goes through this.

"I am sorry this is happening to you."

"What are you going to do."

"I know you can make it through this."

If anyone here is still speaking to me, what are some other phrases Stands can use ~ even phrases to help herself steer away from the pain?

Most effective for me was "I have already done everything I know to do." Equally effective was to remind myself that I thought that same thought all day yesterday and so, was going to put it away for now.

Barbara

 

[standswithcourage]

Thanks all. I will follow the advice. Instead of wallowing in my pain i am out and about doing what I like - as far as I know he hasnt been to court yet - I just wonder what we will do if they give him time served and probation - then he is on the street again - the ministryman said he would help all the could with finding him a place if he wanted it - I am so tired of being in this situation - I am trying to remove myself and just let it be - my husband says he is not going to think about it until something has been done and then he will decide what he will donext - thanks -

 

[CrazyinVA]

I really want to re-iterate, Stands, that I feel you are addicted to this situation. Saying you will take our advice, without immediately heading to an al-anon/nar-anon meeting and therapist familiar with codependence/substance abuse, is not enough. We can be here for you, and listen, and even give blunt advice, but we cannot do the individual work that you MUST do for yourself. Practice Step 1, say it to yourself, over and over and over and over and over:

"1. We admitted we were powerless over the Addict -- that our lives had become unmanageable. "

I also want to re-iterate that I really think many of our reactions stem from our own personal experiences with our difficult children .. it really strikes a chord. We're watching an "addict" (Stands) make the same mistakes over and over, and not take responsbility for her actions (so to speak). We are powerless, ourselves. Perhaps, sometimes, detachment with love is necessary even on a message board? I never really thought about it before.. but.. somehow this situation reminds me of that. Shoot me if I'm barking up the wrong tree here. I just think that's where some of the frustration comes from.

 

[flutterbee]

Carl Jung defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

In another post you said that your son thought it would be best if he got house arrest and you asked best for who. The answer is no one. However, your son is only thinking about getting out of jail. He is not thinking about getting better. He is not thinking about how his actions impact others. He is only thinking about himself and what he wants as opposed to what is best. He's doing enough thinking about him for the both of you. It's time for you to focus on your other children, your husband and most importantly yourself.

I would want to know what doctor prescribed Xanax to an addict. If that doctor wasn't aware that he prescribed to an addict, he needs to be made aware. If the doctor was aware, he needs to be reported. Seriously. I'm not now nor have I ever been an addict of any kind and I couldn't get Xanax when I needed it.

 

[Steely]

Just want to send my empathy to all those who walk the slippery slopes of a child in jail. I fear, every day, that I will be another. I would not for one minute judge any of your actions or decisions, because I myself have not been there. I have had to make horrible, life altering decisions on my son's behalf, yet I know that many of them, in retrospect, were co-dependent - I cannot imagine him in jail. I know I would react in many, many aberrant ways - and I would hope to God that you guys are there to fall on - and nudge me along the right direction - But not yell at me. This post, and many others with Stands seem like we are yelling.

There are so many factors involved in all of this - we really cannot judge and make assumptions. Janet........Stands........ScentofCedar.........to me you are heroes. Every day you are walking the walk of having your son incarcerated. It is a very narrow, horrible, precipice............and one we should not ever judge, until we have climbed it.

Many hugs and good thoughts being sent all of you guy's way.

 

[witzend]

I would feel sad too, Stands ~ and frightened and ashamed and confused and alone.

Witz?

Stands is not wallowing.

Stands is grieving what is happening to her child RIGHT NOW, TODAY.

You see it through your eyes, and I see it through mine. If her son makes these choices for the next 30 years, should she grieve for 30 years because it's happening right then that day? Is there a time limit on deciding that today is the day that you're going to start living a happier life? This is the same legal situation she has been asking "why" and "what can I do to fix it" about since August. She is not moving on, and it seems like she never will no matter how much we prop her up. You can keep going and more power to you, I don't argue your right to do that. I'm not going to keep going, and I'm not going to keep my opinion to myself when she asks for it, either.

When you let the guilt and worry rule every moment of your life for years regardless of every other thing in your life that could be good, and regardless of all the well informed advice that others try to help with, it's wallowing in self-pity. You don't have to agree. She doesn't have to agree. If she wants to be happy she has to try something else. I get it that this is what she is comfortable with. But that is the choice she makes.

 

[standswithcourage]

True. I just wanted to say he didnt go to court today. I dont know when he will. He called and I told him if they give hiim time served he needs to start finding a place to go because he is not coming here. I will keep hanging in here and hope I am gone to the beach when the next court date comes!

 

[PonyGirl]

Hey Susan, do more than Hope you're at the beach next time, just GO to the beach! Glad you will keep hanging in here. I for one need you. I need to be reminded how hard it was for me to detach from my own difficult child. I need to be reminded of the pain I was in. Your posts are a great help to me in that way. I wish you were not in such pain, but just so you know, it does help someone to see it. It helps me.

Peace