Food stamps for fast food - REALLY???????

[skeeter]

devil's advocate here - on two fronts.

First the convenience mart - that's all we have here within walking distance. The closest grocery store is 3 miles away. Now, for some, that may be walking distance, but not for many. Throw in having to catch the bus and negotiate dragging groceries on it, and I can see why the "Dairy Mart" gets so many SNAP cards.
My son works for a small fruit/veggie store in the downtown "farmer's market" that also does local markets. Or they did until the powers that be decided that the people could only bring "local" grown things. My son was providing fruits and veggies to people with the SNAP card - oranges, bananas, all kinds of things that, sorry, aren't grown in Ohio. Since he doesn't do that now, that took away the one "healthy" choice in our neighborhood.

As for fast food - from what I'm understanding (and I'm sure the lobbying of the chains aren't for this reason) the purpose of this is for homeless people to be able to get food someplace other than "soup kitchens".

I know there are those that scam the system. But I can't in all honestly say "no" if it possibly means a child will go hungry. I'd rather err on the side of being shilled.

 

[Marcie Mac]

I think before people are given food stamps, they should have to take a mandatory nutrition class, taught what to make, how to make the stamps last - am sure there are tons of people out there who have no idea of how to even cook a meal, or ones that live in a motel where you cannot cook anything.

Not making any judgements on how people spend their stamps if I don't know of the circumstances - maybe they are tired of rice and beans every day and have an urge for a slurpie and some chips - don't think it would be my place to comment on it - just thankful that if I really want a slurpie and some chips, I am able to indulge myself

Marcie

 

[susiestar]

I firmly agree that more nutritional training and cooking skills should be taught as part of the fs program. While I do not like to see someone feeding a toddler that kind of junk late at night, I recognize that there have been MANY times that others took exception to things I did with my kids.

I do FIRMLY believe that talk of fs reform, etc... is never going to be a priority and that we would have plenty of $$ to feed our own people and make sure that everyone had a GOOD education if we could turn $$ from much of the stupid things the politicians do. NOT slamming any one party - to me the politicians are all alike. But until children and families are a REAL priority in this country, there is little reason to think anything will get better. Just in my opinion of course.

 

[DDD]

The great thing about the CD family is that you get different perspectives. Obviously I am not "anti" the needs of people who are living unfortunate circumstances. Truthfully I hadn't thought about the access issues for the homeless or those who live too far away from grocery stores...our community has no bus transport etc.

on the other hand, if the changes are Corporate "profit driven" via the political system it is food for thought. Sometimes I think that everything is so darn complicated that it is impossible just to travel the middle road of reason. DDD

 

[DammitJanet]

It is difficult to think about all sides. Im sure you guys remember the awful trailer Cory first moved to back when I got sick...right? Well, out here where we live it is very rural and we dont have any public transportation at all. Cory will never have a license, we all just might as well stick a fork in that idea. He would be so old by the time he could get them back he would be in a casket anyways. So right across from this mobile home park was this combination gas station/convenience store/laundry mat. I think you could even rent movies and pay your electric bill there. Of course the food was higher there and had much less of a choice than a normal grocery store but for people who couldnt get a ride into town, they had no choice if they ran out of milk or bread or even sugar, flour other needed items.

 

[HaoZi]

Perhaps if the people who are truly homeless or otherwise can't cook for whatever reason and need their food prepared for them, a special SNAP card or specially coded one could be made.

We get about $180/month in FS. While I do use it to get snacky stuff in gas stations when we travel, and no I don't really cook much (or nothing most of you ladies would acknowledge as "cooking" any how, lol), Kiddo gets the vegetarian versions of her beloved bacon and corndogs, organic milk (for Kiddo anyway), and we get the Fiber One type versions of snack foods, that 180 lasts us most of the month. Some of that is our pure out finickiness and some of that is that I've gotten MUCH better at doing the couponing thing (learned a lot about saving money on groceries from Dad and you couponing ladies have certainly improved my skills and reminded me of things he did that I'd forgotten about and started implementing as well, so thank you!).

Mandated birth control for those on FS - personally I'd be overjoyed to have them cover me going back on the pill and getting a physical every year, but if I was required to pay for those I'd be up that fabled creek.

ETA: Also in agreement with Janet's post. I've lived where the 24 hour store was the local gas station, and the next closest was 20 miles away. Not an appealing trip in the middle of the night even when you have transportation.

 

[Hound dog]

Well, I don't want the govt telling people what to eat. I don't like them telling me what to eat... But it would seem wise to require budgeting classes and cooking classes to the folks using food stamps. Or at least monitor the health of the children to see that they're properly nourished and growing properly. Katie would fail miserably. WIC is an awesome program. Katie would never use it simply because they monitored the kids too closely.

 

[DammitJanet]

This whole thing is treading way too closely into where I feel the government shouldnt go. We have social programs for a reason. I dont see how we could ever send any humanitarian aid abroad if we didnt have some sort of social programs at home, lowly though they may be. This country was built to take care of each other and I think that is what we should do. Policing everything is just too expensive from a cost/benefit analysis perspective. You have to figure out as a nation what your morals and ethics are going to be and in the end I do think we basically have it right at this point.

I could go into the exact details but the basics are that as far as TANF (welfare check) you only get money for the kids you come into the program with and one more. And it is possible they have removed the one more by now. You will still get an increase in food stamps and medicaid will cover the new baby but is just humane. TANF is limited to 2 years at a time and 5 years lifetime unless there are extenuating circumstances such as disability. If you are getting TANF you have to sign up for Work First within so many days of getting approved and if you get FS you are required to be actively looking for work. Adults with no kids can only get food stamps if they are disabled. Or they can get them 2 times every other year but they only last for 3 months at a time and you have to show a ton of things in order to get them.

 

[AnnieO]

What it really comes down to is...

Food stamps and WIC are awesome programs. Like Social Security, medicaid and welfare, they were established to help people.

My biggest problem is not the part about helping people. When H was out of work - they needed those FS. And she was actively trying to get a job - any job. I had her do our Christmas photos - she's a great photographer - and she got SOOOOO irritated when I paid her - but I wouldn't take it back, because it was a JOB.

What irked her - (and me) - was seeing people in line for FS, on their iPhones, making appts for their next manicure... Driving nice cars... And the fact is, I know bio scammed the system. They go by household income - and she had free lunches, food stamps, medicaid AND welfare, plus child support - though she was making almost as much as I was - and her mother had 2 jobs - and we sure as heck don't qualify even for reduced lunch. We let it slide, of course, because we had no concrete proof.

If people are willing to help themselves, I'm all for it! But if they're just going to TAKE... Well.

 

[DDD]

Wow, I can't believe she opted out of WIC to avoid oversight. I actually thought that WIC and FS's were tied together when you had babies and young children.

The expansion of government intervention is not my thing...and yet...there seem to be so many people using the system. The idea of drug testing (at a cost to the services recipients) is being floated in our State. It's proposed that if you refuse the test or fail the test then benefits are cut off for a year. How will the children be housed and fed? Somehow the children seem to get the short end of the stick. Sigh. DDD

 

[DaisyFace]

What it really comes down to is...

If people are willing to help themselves, I'm all for it! But if they're just going to TAKE... Well.

Well, the thing is...

no matter the day or the hour or the place or the circumstance...

you will have honest people

and dishonest people.

No amount of law or legislation will be able to control the dishonest people all the time.

The best we can do is make sure that the HONEST people get a fair shot.

 

[hearts and roses]

How will the children be housed and fed? Somehow the children seem to get the short end of the stick. Sigh. DDD

Well, that is the crux of it, isn't it? On the one hand, I do advocate for stricter guidelines such as mandated drug testing for applicants. on the other hand, the idea of a child going without because his/her parents is an addict breaks my heart.

When I was a kid, my dad was out on disability for 18 months and my sisters and I were eligible for free lunches. It KILLED my mom to apply for them and it embarrassed my sisters and I to no end those first few weeks of school to have to say to the hair netted cashier, "Um, we get free lunch" in a very soft voice only to have her pull out at clipboard and search for our name. There were times when I scalped change from the car seats so I could pay for my lunch just so I wouldn't have to endure that embarrassment. My sister M did that too! M would sometimes make me get behind her in line (if she got to the caf early enough) so she could tell the cashier for both of us. I'm grateful that such plans are in place.

I think my earlier post made me come off as an uncaring person for those less fortunate...not my intention. I'm all for public services. I just feel that there has GOT to be a way to ensure that those who really need it get it and those who do not don't. If I were in that situation again, with children in particular, I would gladly give up my new car and expensive cell and everything else I've worked hard for to make darned sure my kids had hot meals on the table, clothing on their bodies and a secure roof over their head. I've done it before and I'd do it all over again if need be. I am a bit jaded perhaps by all the blatent fraud going on back in 89-91 when I was on welfare, before a lot of the new guidelines were in place. But not enough has been done to ensure that our children are safe, fed, and housed properly. It makes my blood boil when we invade countries to 'save them from themselves' while we have poverty and hunger right here in our own backyards. It makes my blood boil that giant corporations are all about saving money on the back end, avoiding paying their taxes and then having silly scam-filled fundraisers where a certain percentage of the profits go to feed children or whatever..and inevitably the money doesn't get there or it's not as much as we're made to believe. For those giant corporations who have very hard push lobbiests going at the government 24/7/365, it's all about their profits and NOTHING else. We farm out all our home grown industries to other countries for cheap labor and then we all stand around scratching our heads in wonder as to why the unemployment rates are so danged high. Then politicians talk about getting those folks their jobs back - well how are we going to do that when all the factories have closed down and opened up in Bangledesh? Towns are closing down! Grrrr.

Anyway, a disclaimer to my earlier statements - I'm not a cold hearted person, in fact, my field of study has always been human services, I'm more a bleeding heart than anything. I just believe that it's very easy to scam a governmental entity and it's time to change that. And, incidentally, although medicaid and welfare programs are federal programs, they are run state to state and vary state to state, so not all states have the same guidelines, cost of living rates or increases, which include housing, SNAP, etc.

 

[AnnieO]

When I was a kid, my dad was out on disability for 18 months and my sisters and I were eligible for free lunches. It KILLED my mom to apply for them and it embarrassed my sisters and I to no end those first few weeks of school to have to say to the hair netted cashier, "Um, we get free lunch" in a very soft voice only to have her pull out at clipboard and search for our name. There were times when I scalped change from the car seats so I could pay for my lunch just so I wouldn't have to endure that embarrassment. My sister M did that too! M would sometimes make me get behind her in line (if she got to the caf early enough) so she could tell the cashier for both of us. I'm grateful that such plans are in place.

Anymore, lunches aren't paid for with cash... Due to kids losing the money and/or it being stolen. The parents put money into an online account, and the kid gives the cashier their student number.

Which means, of course, the kids who get free lunches give their student ID, the system processes it as a "payment" and the software charges the free lunch program.

Which is nice... I don't recall free lunches being available when I was a kid.

 

[DammitJanet]

Free lunches have been around at least since I was in school and I am older than you Step. I actually attempted to get my parents in trouble one time but going to the office in HS and "telling" on them because they didnt give me money for lunch that day. I got a ticket for a free lunch. It also didnt work to get my parents in trouble because the reason they didnt give me any money was I hadnt been home in two days...lol.

Jo and Step...things you guys say make so much sense and are true in so many ways but there are other things that you dont understand from inside the system and I think that is where a whole lot of confusion comes from in the world. Your comment about things going by household income is very interesting. Do you know that there are some various definitions of households in the system we are talking about? Household does not necessarily mean everyone living in the home. You can have several households living in one house.

It gets really complicated and its so much harder than just simply throwing laws and regulations at what has been a generational period of time for some families who rely on the system to get by.

 

[flutterby]

DDD, drug testing for assistance isn't being floated in your state. The law is in effect. And so far, 98% of recipients have passed. All this is doing is costing the taxpayers even more money.

 

[hearts and roses]

definitions of households in the system we are talking about? Household does not necessarily mean everyone living in the home. You can have several households living in one house. ..... some families who rely on the system to get by.

Yes Janet, I do know about the different definitions of families living in the household and how complicated it can get and how everyone is scrutinized every six months or whatever the renewal time periods are per state. I do understand that and, again, I reiterate that I wouldn't want a child to be deprived because of a foul parent...i just think there have to be ways to cut fraud while providing for those in need. I know, I know, easier said than done.

In regards to the relying on welfare generationally, this is a social issue, not only a fiscal issue. For decades, different administrations have sought to re-educate families who have been on welfare for generations. Many of these recipients have successfully learned the ins and outs of the guidelines and learned how to trick or dupe their caseworkers (by watching their parents do so) so they do not have to adhere to said guidelines. They refuse to be educated, they refuse to take the minimum wage jobs, or, they work off the books or illegally while collecting.

I am not referring to the truly needy who live in depressed areas of our country where large corporations have ripped out 100's of years of various industries to market them on foreign lands and then leave the townspeople destitute. I'm talking about the able bodied, the capable. If they are smart enough to work and scam the system, then they are smart enough to get a job, pay taxes and their own bills like everyone else. There are programs in place that are graduated, where if you are working but only making a certain amount, you may be eligible for, say, daycare or public transportation, or medicaid, rather than everything. The things is, I go into Hartford and see welfare recipients parking at the public assistance offices in Mercedes and BMW's, wearing more gold than I will ever own in my life, talking on blackberries, and making plans for drinks with their friends who are waiting in line. THESE are the people I'm referring to. They are LITERALLY stealing money from those who NEED it.

When our social welfare system was set up, it was meant to be a stepping stone while our country worked hard to get back on it's feet. Instead it has turned into what some people believe is their 'right', an entitlement. And that's just not so.

Again, I hate to say it again because it's beginning to sound cliche, but I am not referring to the truly needy and I am a firm supporter of social programs that assist the poor and elderly. Okay, off the soapbox.

 

[AnnieO]

According to all the paperwork we filled out, and the BOE here... We don't qualify - because ALL INCOME is counted: Paychecks from every working member of the household including children, any Social Security including retirement, disability, and death benefits, child support, alimony, yada yada yada. The only income that isn't counted, per the lady I talked to... Is monetary welfare assistance.

We actually did qualify at one point - sort of. The amount of child support we were supposed to receive put us - get this - not quite $1 per month over the threshold for reduced price lunches. husband tried to explain that we didn't actually get that much - but as long as we were getting something, they counted the full amount.

There are deductions they take, of course. My income alone would disqualify us if not for that. (I don't really make that much, honestly.) We muddled through, just like I would expect any other hard working family to do.

But - you're right, I don't know everything from inside the system. It seems to be as complicated and (in some ways) nonsensical as the tax code.

I think free/reduced price lunches, medicaid, food stamps, and so on are great. As Jo pointed out though - great - for the truly needy. I have no issues with those who cannot work, or are trying to work, receving assistance.

 

[DDD]

I know that the Governor pushed for arbitrary drug testing of State employees and for FS recipients. Both, of course, will be costly if implemented. If it is in effect already I'm surprised but not shocked. His pet projects are way out there, have nothing to do with his platform of "creating jobs" and somehow he has had success with the Legislature. He is an extremely wealthy man (health care corporate exec) who honestly and truly doesn't have a clue about how "real" citizens live and survive. I've never had less respect for an elected official in all my years. DDD

PS: He recently opted into the State health insurance option for high end employees and was proud to announce that his family is covered for ??? $59 a month or so. He couldn't understand why that would strike people as odd.
Sigh!

 

[keista]

PS: He recently opted into the State health insurance option for high end employees and was proud to announce that his family is covered for ??? $59 a month or so. He couldn't understand why that would strike people as odd.
Sigh!

OMG, really? If I make more than X amount of money, my kids state funded health insurance premium would be $115 EACH! AND I still would not be covered.

But yes, DDD, they did manage to enact the drug testing. Not for Food Stamps, but for the cash assistance program. I do applaud that as the ONLY thing he may have done "right"

 

[DDD]

Actually...I think he might function better with a few medications in his system! LOL DDD