For the very first time

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by flutterbee, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    last night I wanted difficult child out of my house. And I wasn't thinking respite.

    She's so cold, so defiant, so angry and lashing out at me, so selfish and so headstrong in her own self-defeat. She's so critical and spews venom and it's always everyone else who is being mean to her. I was so angry with her last night that I just felt empty. She's verbally abusive and she's manipulative. I didn't take that cr@p from her father or easy child's father. I'm sure as heck not going to take it from my child.

    I know she's only 13. How horrible is that?

    I love my child. But I can't stand to be around her.
  2. ML

    ML Guest

    ((((((((((((((((WG)))))))))))))))))) What you are going through isn't fair. I'm so sorry. Know that you are in my prayers. Love, ML
  3. DazedandConfused

    DazedandConfused Active Member


    I so know what you are feeling.

    In regards to both of my difficult children, I can remember thinking, "I just want them out!!"

    I still do when it's a really bad day.

    We understand.
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2008
  4. Momslittleangels

    Momslittleangels New Member

    I completely understand. I have two daughters, one difficult child and one easy child. They were both that way during those teen years. I really hated the attitudes between ages 12-16 - - but I promise you something, she WILL come back to you and be better when she's older.

    Hang in there!
  5. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Hugs Heather. I get it.
  6. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Heather, I'm sorry you're going through this. The real question is it difficult child or teenager? They're all posessed at this age.

    Why not pull out your handy-dandy copy of The Explosive Child. The one example about the teenaged girl that kept stealing her parents car and sneeking out will let you laugh about "payback". I'm not sure if you read it, but the kid would lie right in their faces, so they waited one night, watched her sneak out, steal the car, bring it back and go to bed at like 4:00 am. At about 5:00 am, Mom and Dad slipped into her room and cut a HUGE chunk out of her hair.

    Even though Ross Greene didn't think it was a good idea, at least he gave ME a really good laugh!

    This too soon shall pass. Make sure that she doesn't need a medication tweak. It might be time since she's in the throws of "screaming Mormons coursing through her veins" (which is what the kid on the Brady Bunch thought that they were talking about when in actuality the quote was "streaming hormones coursing through their veins").

    Got you in my prayers!

  7. KTMom91

    KTMom91 Well-Known Member

    I understand completely, Heather. 13 was about the time Miss KT really started showing her difficult child talents. Sending many hugs.
  8. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    Seriously, if this is typical teen, then she's been a teenager since she was 7.

    If it was typical teen, I wouldn't be posting here. She passed typical teen a long time ago.
  9. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Heather, you'd be surprised at what happens when our girls become teens. Like yours, mine was a teen at 7. Heck, I think she walked through my door with the teen tude down pat. But when the hormones really kicked in, it was ugly. However, when I started comparing notes with other parents, it really was typical teen more than anything else. Yes, it was the extreme end but it was still typical teen. It was just a tad (??) uglier than it was for other parents.

    I know she has extreme anxiety and sleeping issues but it may be time for her to go back to school. You guys need a break from each other. She needs to find out that the world really doesn't revolve around her and that she will survive even when totally scared out of her wits. It's not an easy concept, but it may be the only way you and she will survive her teen years. Sooner or later she is going to have to face the world and maybe a gradual infiltration into school (a class or two?) might be a start.

    In the meantime, it really is okay to not like her sometimes. For the next few years, it ain't gonna get better regardless if it is typical teen or not. Sadly, it goes with the territory of raising girls. They just ain't easy. Sorry.

    In the meantime, mega hugs! Take care of yourself. Imagine her hanging upside down with duct tape around her mouth and eyes. It might make her a little more bearable (it worked to drown out mine daughter's voice -- I'd get so wrapped up in my imagination I'd quit listening to the nastiness).
  10. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    I know the feeling.
    with-a difficult child, you get a dble whammy--a teen plus a difficult child. Horrid combination.
    It really wears you out.
    I'm guessing she follows you from room to room spewing venom?
  11. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    She doesn't just have severe anxiety. She also has severe depression right now. Plus the EFD and NonVerbal Learning Disorder (NVLD) stuff.

    I don't live in a bubble. I know what teens and teen girls are like. I'm so tired of it being pooh-poohed as oh it's just typical teen and she'll grow out of it. Like I'm over-reacting to normal teenage behavior. I thought the parents here would understand, but it seems like most people just want to tell me it's typical teen. I wish that it was just typical teen.

    I do have another teen. I am around teen girls. I do know the difference.

    Her former therapist was worried about her ending up with borderline personality. All of her tdocs have realized how volatile she is and how hard she is to work with. I guess that's just typical teen, too.
  12. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I remember those days, and I remember how awful it made me feel to have those feelings about M. It really started in earnest about that age. Puberty does not look good on a difficult child. I wish I had some advice, but my track record kind of inhales...

    It does, on the other hand, pass.
  13. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    I could be off-base here, but it sounds as if the usual interventions aren't working. Is she in therapy? Is she taking medications for anxiety and depression? Is she involved in an activity that is soothing or gives her pleasure? If the answer is no, then she could very well need all of the above. And if she can't do all or some of the above, then my guess is she needs a more intensive therapeutic intervention like a day treatment program or an inpatient stay.
  14. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    We are starting the process with a facility for outpatient treatment. I had the intake appointment in July. She goes 9/15 for a 2 1/2 diagnostic appointment. Yes, we've already done the diagnostic stuff and I'm comfortable with her diagnosis's, but this is their thing and it's a step in the process we have to go through. They also have family therapy, group therapy and partial hospitalization if needed.

    The medications issue. Our GP spent 45 minutes with her this week talking about medications. difficult child admitted that there is nothing that she enjoys and the she is miserable, but shuts completely down about medications. Actually, that's an understatement. She won't see the psychiatrist at the treatment facility until I don't know when. Sometime after the diagnostic appointment I guess. We (difficult child and I) had the most unbelievably mind-boggling battle over medications. Suffice it to say that difficult child is her own worst enemy and is absolutely head-strong in her own self-defeat. Bottom line is I'm going to have to make her world stop and force medications and my worry knowing my difficult child is 1) she will never acknowledge that they help even if they do and it will be a daily battle and 2) I have to get myself emotionally stronger before I can do it. It will become WWIII at that time.

    She is in guitar lessons. She enjoys that. I've tried to get her involved in other activities. Anything. Sports, book club, volunteering at the humane society. I've tried to make it a requirement. Bottom line is, I can make her go but I can't force her to do a damn thing when she is there.
  15. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I really don't htink what you are going through is typical teen. I trust that you know enough girls that age and see enough of what the typical teen crowd does to know the difference.

    I really tink her volatility and refusal to face the whole medication issue is going to be a giant problem - LONG after teh typical teen days are over - or past the days where all sorts of behavior is blamed on a person being a teen. (yes, I do know that kids go through all sorts of stuff as teens, I jsut think it is overused to describe behaviors that are just not OK)

    Is there ANY possible way to get at least prn medications to hide in her food? It will sound mean, or not politically correct, and it probably is both, but maybe if you had a lliquid or sprinkle medication you could hide in her food when things just have got to give??

    She is shooting herself in the foot - and you too!! (Not - you shooting her, but she is shooting YOUR foot as well as her own). Sometimes the kids ahve to give for the sake of the family. Our difficult children have little concept of this - or they refuse to grasp the concept - but as parents sometimes we have to work behind their backs until they get to a point they CAN work.

    Is she still homeschooled this year?? Is it possible to tell her she can stay off medications FOR NOW if she goes to school, but if she is to continue with homeschooling then she MUST take medications with NO refusal/problems??? Can you back up this position if you choose to take it??

    I am throwing this out for an idea. I don't know if it will work for your family or for you or for her. It is just a thought.

    I also wonder if maybe, given this pervasive depression, she needs hospitalization?? I don't even know if it is an option, just wanted you to think about it. Is there any way for you to get some respite?? Maybe even a homeschool cooperative for a morning or 3 a week? Just SOME break from her?? From having to always be the mom - I know we always ARE moms, but with-o some time away from our progeny it can be a real tough thing to handle.

    Sending hugs.
  16. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    She even tells me that she doesn't want to do therapy; that she hates it and that it just makes her feel worse. But, she's willing to do it. She has to be a willing participant so that's important. I got her to agree to that during one of the episodes like we just had tonight where I banged my head against the wall for a couple of hours while she's sobbing and being miserable and telling me I don't understand and curling up in the corner, yada, yada, yada and then somehow finally getting through to her.

    After 2 hours of this tonight - of course, starting at 2am - and after me telling her that I have tried to approach this from every possible way that I could think of - that I've tried explaining it to her, educating her, reasoning with her, using rational and logical explanations and examples - that if she decided that she wanted to be miserable that is her prerogative. However, I do NOT want to be miserable and doing this 'thing' with her every single day makes me miserable and I will not do it anymore. Then told her - again - that I've tried to get through to her in every possible way and that I just wasn't able to get through and so she needs to decide what to do. But, that we had been doing this particular angst event for 2 hours and that I was done. And I walked away. When I came back, the medication and the glass of water was gone.

    I have thought several times during these events - which happen regularly - about taking her to the hospital. However, I seriously doubt they would admit her because she isn't an immediate threat to herself or others and then she would more than likely never come to me again. Not that I want to do this every day. I just don't want to walk into her room and find her body because she felt like she couldn't talk to me. If I thought they would admit her and that it would do some good, I'd take her.

    I do need a break. She could probably use one, too. I'm not foreseeing that happening anytime soon.
  17. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Most of us can truly relate to not wanting to be around our kids, we know we love them but like them, no way at times.

    I know how hard it is when you can't get them involved in anything (in this case it's my easy child, it's like pulling teeth-although this year a friend finally convinced her to try out for cheerleading so she is doing something now). It's like pulling teeth isn't it? And as far as making it a a requirement-we tried that too but stubbornness on her part makes that such a joy.

    I also can relate to the whole WWIII over medications. Not a bit of fun.

    I'm sorry your difficult child is struggling with such depression and I do so wish you could find some respite-with difficult children we sure need breaks. I'd love to give you a break if I lived closer. by the way, I'm so glad she took her medications tonight, maybe it will be the start of something! Gentle hugs.
  18. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Hon, saying that some of what you are seeing is typical teen doesn't negate Wynter's other issues. It just gives you a perspective that at least some of her stuff will go away as she grows up. W's other issues just exacerbate everything else. I know, I've been there done that. What is bad for most 13 YOs is a major tragedy for ours and so on and so forth. Even so, I found the best way to handle at the time was to treat her as I would a typical teen.

    Some of that meant my house, my rules. It also meant that I was there to listen, hold her hand, give advice when she asked. That was my job as her mother (and to provide for her basic necessities). She was to do her best to comply with those rules, to actively participate in her health and safety, to do her part in making our house a home. Yes, there were battles and failures but there were also successes. She HATED therapy. She had a choice -- actively participate or discover how miserable her world could really be. After trying out the miserable world for almost a year, she opted to participate. While she did not take medications for her behavior issues, she did have to for medical reasons. She tried to refuse to take them. Since this was a health issue, I had to force her to take them. At one point, it was to take her to the hospital and have them give her a shot.

    It's not easy to parent a teen. It's even harder to parent a teen with issues. Sometimes we have to ignore the issues and just pretend we are dealing with a teen. Other times we have to ignore the teen factor.

    You need to figure out what is best for you, W and D, not just what is best for W right now.
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2008
  19. janebrain

    janebrain New Member

    I think you did the right thing by telling her that you won't do this "thing" with her. I was talking to my dtr's therapist about the long talks she will get me up in the middle of the night for (she comes crying to me) and he said if they are just going around and around with nothing getting resolved I should not engage in them. Usually with my dtr we do resolve something and she does feel better but he doesn't think we should do this for "hours"--shouldn't take that long. I think it is good for you to set boundaries with her or she is going to **** you dry. I think I understand your fear of finding her dead and wanting her to be able to talk to you but I think in some sense you are enabling her sense of helplessnes by being so available. Also, she needs to see you as strong, not someone she can just manipulate and make as miserable as she is. I think the fact that she took the pill after you told her you were not doing this thing with her says volumes. Great job on your part!

    I do feel for you, it sounds so hard!

  20. flutterbee

    flutterbee Guest

    On the PE board, CrazyinVa said:

    That is very good insight. However, when I read that I thought, "My daughter doesn't want tools period. She just wants someone to fix it!"

    And every time we seem to have to go through all of this drama, kicking and screaming, before she finally accepts the tools offered.

    It makes me tired.