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For those with older kids (well, older than 8)
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<blockquote data-quote="seriously" data-source="post: 428531" data-attributes="member: 11920"><p>So a couple of thoughts for you. As much as I was amused by your reply that annoying you was what he was best at - is that really the only answer you have for that question? If so, I understand your frustration but it will help you both if you can find something - anything - to see about him that is positive or hopeful.</p><p></p><p>For example, your answer suggests that your child is very persistent. Know that one well here. Got a kid with thought disorder issues and when he believes what he believes you cannot stop him from pursuing his goal with an intensity that will drive us all up the wall.</p><p></p><p>Well persistence is actually a very positive trait - when focused on an appropriate goal or objective. Without persistence you can't graduate from college, plant a garden, get through a marriage. So, can you see that aspect of his annoying behavior as potentially positive?</p><p></p><p>You sound very angry. You have worked hard to try to make things better and really expected those things would have worked by now. It sounds like you feel you have done your part and he's "not" doing his.</p><p></p><p>He is 8. He is not 28. Those expectations may be reasonable if you are working with an adult or older teen with normal brain function.</p><p></p><p>They are not reasonable expectations for an 8 year old. </p><p></p><p>Part of what you are longing for is likely to come as he grows up and matures. His brain is very immature. Big parts of his brain are not yet connected to each other. They don't work in tandem to help him make sense of the world the way you do or to enable him to decide what to do/not do in the way a normal adult brain can do. Is part of this unwillingness or anger or intentional behavior on his part? Probably. Is there more going on than that - absolutely yes.</p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, the reality is that he is not, for whatever reason, going to meet your expectations for adult behavior until he's an adult - maybe not until his 20's or later. You are, understandably, frustrated and disappointed. I'm sorry life has handed you lemons. It isn't fair. Definitely not fair.</p><p></p><p>I found that I had two choices - to continue to be angry and perhaps even bitter and blame my child for being who he is. Or to find some way to accept that fact and move on. Unless you are prepared to abandon this child and risk serious questions about your ability to parent your other children too, those are your choices too.</p><p></p><p>Do you have any respite? Are you a single parent? If you don't have any respite right now, is there any resource that you can turn to for help with that. Having a break may be all that you need to recover some balance and perspective = I don't know. For some people, having a therapist to talk to, especially one who has worked with difficult kids, can be very helpful.</p><p></p><p>Every time you engage in argument with him - you are teaching him to argue. So try not to get into that place or stop it as soon as you realize that you are arguing with an 8 year old.</p><p></p><p>I've had a hard time learning this one but if you aren't already doing it try it and see if it helps - use very few words and lots of action.</p><p></p><p>If he's making a scene in the car, stop the car and refuse to go on until he stops. Keep a book in the car and start reading. This drives my kids crazy and they stop within 3 or 4 minutes. You can give one warning and then you must do it. Even if it makes you late or is frustrating.If he gets violent in the car you stop and wait it out without engaging verbally. If you don't think it's going to stop and it's dangerous call 911 and ask for help. If he's making threats and you think he may become violent - drive to the nearest police station and tell him to get out of the car with you because you are going to get the police to transport him to the hospital. That one worked really, really well with my son. He absolutely knew I would do it. And not only did he stop - he said you're right I do need to go to the hospital and he let me drive him there. He was 14 - your son is probably not old enough to expect that to happen but you never know.</p><p></p><p>If he's arguing you just stand there and wait until he stops. Then you say what his choices are - you can brush your teeth before your bath or after your bath. Which will it be? If he doesn't choose then you say, OK you are going to brush your teeth after your bath. In the tub with you. And then you stand there silently until he does it. You want to be the wall - very low key emotional content, concerned but distant works well if you can do it. You are going to out-persist him and you can do it - you're a grown up and he's a kid. You have to decide to do it and not let yourself get impatient with the fact that he needs you to do this right now.</p><p></p><p>If he attacks you physically you must go and call the police for help. They can restrain him and transport him to the hospital or ER for you and that's what needs to happen in my opinion.</p><p></p><p>It's so hard because you have younger children that require your help and care. Having a difficult older child means they get less of your attention and exposure to aggression and problem behaviors. If you can give them time with grandparents, extended family or friends who can help balance that - do it. And send the 8 yo to them so you have time with your younger kids if possible. Even if it's only a couple hours - do it.</p><p></p><p>Another thing is that the other children are watching you. When you calmly stand up to him, when you stop the car, when you call the cops, when you drive to the police station, you are sending your other children a message too. You are helping them understand that YOU are in control of things, that this is what you will do if THEY get out of line, that violence is never acceptable. And this will reassure them and help them feel secure with you and at home even when things are bad. At least that's been my experience.</p><p></p><p>I hope you don't feel criticized by my reply. I am NOT criticizing you. Just trying to offer some distance from the problem and share the things that have helped me personally.</p><p></p><p>Hugs</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="seriously, post: 428531, member: 11920"] So a couple of thoughts for you. As much as I was amused by your reply that annoying you was what he was best at - is that really the only answer you have for that question? If so, I understand your frustration but it will help you both if you can find something - anything - to see about him that is positive or hopeful. For example, your answer suggests that your child is very persistent. Know that one well here. Got a kid with thought disorder issues and when he believes what he believes you cannot stop him from pursuing his goal with an intensity that will drive us all up the wall. Well persistence is actually a very positive trait - when focused on an appropriate goal or objective. Without persistence you can't graduate from college, plant a garden, get through a marriage. So, can you see that aspect of his annoying behavior as potentially positive? You sound very angry. You have worked hard to try to make things better and really expected those things would have worked by now. It sounds like you feel you have done your part and he's "not" doing his. He is 8. He is not 28. Those expectations may be reasonable if you are working with an adult or older teen with normal brain function. They are not reasonable expectations for an 8 year old. Part of what you are longing for is likely to come as he grows up and matures. His brain is very immature. Big parts of his brain are not yet connected to each other. They don't work in tandem to help him make sense of the world the way you do or to enable him to decide what to do/not do in the way a normal adult brain can do. Is part of this unwillingness or anger or intentional behavior on his part? Probably. Is there more going on than that - absolutely yes. Unfortunately, the reality is that he is not, for whatever reason, going to meet your expectations for adult behavior until he's an adult - maybe not until his 20's or later. You are, understandably, frustrated and disappointed. I'm sorry life has handed you lemons. It isn't fair. Definitely not fair. I found that I had two choices - to continue to be angry and perhaps even bitter and blame my child for being who he is. Or to find some way to accept that fact and move on. Unless you are prepared to abandon this child and risk serious questions about your ability to parent your other children too, those are your choices too. Do you have any respite? Are you a single parent? If you don't have any respite right now, is there any resource that you can turn to for help with that. Having a break may be all that you need to recover some balance and perspective = I don't know. For some people, having a therapist to talk to, especially one who has worked with difficult kids, can be very helpful. Every time you engage in argument with him - you are teaching him to argue. So try not to get into that place or stop it as soon as you realize that you are arguing with an 8 year old. I've had a hard time learning this one but if you aren't already doing it try it and see if it helps - use very few words and lots of action. If he's making a scene in the car, stop the car and refuse to go on until he stops. Keep a book in the car and start reading. This drives my kids crazy and they stop within 3 or 4 minutes. You can give one warning and then you must do it. Even if it makes you late or is frustrating.If he gets violent in the car you stop and wait it out without engaging verbally. If you don't think it's going to stop and it's dangerous call 911 and ask for help. If he's making threats and you think he may become violent - drive to the nearest police station and tell him to get out of the car with you because you are going to get the police to transport him to the hospital. That one worked really, really well with my son. He absolutely knew I would do it. And not only did he stop - he said you're right I do need to go to the hospital and he let me drive him there. He was 14 - your son is probably not old enough to expect that to happen but you never know. If he's arguing you just stand there and wait until he stops. Then you say what his choices are - you can brush your teeth before your bath or after your bath. Which will it be? If he doesn't choose then you say, OK you are going to brush your teeth after your bath. In the tub with you. And then you stand there silently until he does it. You want to be the wall - very low key emotional content, concerned but distant works well if you can do it. You are going to out-persist him and you can do it - you're a grown up and he's a kid. You have to decide to do it and not let yourself get impatient with the fact that he needs you to do this right now. If he attacks you physically you must go and call the police for help. They can restrain him and transport him to the hospital or ER for you and that's what needs to happen in my opinion. It's so hard because you have younger children that require your help and care. Having a difficult older child means they get less of your attention and exposure to aggression and problem behaviors. If you can give them time with grandparents, extended family or friends who can help balance that - do it. And send the 8 yo to them so you have time with your younger kids if possible. Even if it's only a couple hours - do it. Another thing is that the other children are watching you. When you calmly stand up to him, when you stop the car, when you call the cops, when you drive to the police station, you are sending your other children a message too. You are helping them understand that YOU are in control of things, that this is what you will do if THEY get out of line, that violence is never acceptable. And this will reassure them and help them feel secure with you and at home even when things are bad. At least that's been my experience. I hope you don't feel criticized by my reply. I am NOT criticizing you. Just trying to offer some distance from the problem and share the things that have helped me personally. Hugs [/QUOTE]
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