Genie's out of the bottle!

[Malika]

Not great. 'Bout the same as here - there would be a psychiatrist for ADHD, maybe an Occupational Therapist (OT). This is plan A. Plan B is to stay in France at an alternative school near a bigger city. I will have to investigate this in person in the coming months. If we visit a school, it will become clearer.

See, none of what they are recommending for J actually works. This lunchtime when he came home, feeling somewhat stressed I guess and having a moment of doubt about my own approach, I started being "authorative" with him. It was horrible, disaster, a return to the place we habitually were a year or more back. Shouting, screaming, hostility, defiance. Over the top ODD. I still feel the stress of it reverberating through my chest and stomach.

 

[buddy]

Please don't lose the progress you and j have made. Don't doubt yourself.

Your relationship with j takes priority over all else. It's his foundation.

 

[DDD]

I'm sorry. As you know I don't believe in geographic cures as, in my humble opinion, the problems remain with-o treatment and simply resurface depending upon the environment. As you know my oldest ADHD difficult child is almost fifty and was dismissed from the public school system because she could not sit quietly etc. and therefore interfered with the disciplined routine for her first grade class. As a veteran participating parent from at least six schools I do not find the rejection of J's behavior to be at all surprising. Locally if a child shows physical violence, throws a tantrum, makes inappropriate noises etc. they are taken from the classroom and when necessary physicall "helped" to make the walk to the Counselors room. Children who have been evaluated and have mental health problems are in special classes with aides. Telling others "he has ADHD" does not solve the problem for him. J needs a complete neuro'psychological evaluation and professional guidelines on what is best for his future. He has so much potential and it breaks my heart to think that he will soon identify himself as a "bad boy". He is not, of course, a "bad boy" but he is not able to conform to the acceptable pattern of behavior consistently. You need a top quality professional to help you choose the course of his future and yours. Meanwhile I am rooting for you and particularly for J. DDD

 

[BusynMember]

DDD, I don't think they HAVE special classes there. Sounds like they think that a bonafide neurological difference is an excuse for "acting bad." Sounds like they don't believe that a very real medical disorder can trigger atypical behavior in children. My son would have tossed out on his head in French schools. That's the problem. They don't even acknowledge that they have had other kids with issues. If there are no services for children like J, he is unlikely to be accepted and in time this will really harm his self-esteem. In the end, it could impact his interest in learning completely.

Malika, is there a reason why you are determined that he get a French education as opposed to a UK education? I don't really understand the difference or why it is so important to you. If it does not suit J's learning style, might it not be better to try another type of school??

 

[InsaneCdn]

If I remember right, there are challenges trying to get J into UK as anything but a visitor...

 

[buddy]

Yup, she has tried. And she is in the place many of our grandparents were, inventing the wheel.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Not that the UK system is necessarily a whole lot better... Europe, in general, isn't as far as North America is, in handling these things at school. And small-village Europe has an even bigger gap.

At least in M, it's a multi-cultural group at school... not 19 French kids plus J. That alone makes a difference in approach. But... until you are actually THERE, you really don't know.

 

[Malika]

I'm sorry. As you know I don't believe in geographic cures as, in my humble opinion, the problems remain with-o treatment and simply resurface depending upon the environment. As you know my oldest ADHD difficult child is almost fifty and was dismissed from the public school system because she could not sit quietly etc. and therefore interfered with the disciplined routine for her first grade class. As a veteran participating parent from at least six schools I do not find the rejection of J's behavior to be at all surprising. Locally if a child shows physical violence, throws a tantrum, makes inappropriate noises etc. they are taken from the classroom and when necessary physicall "helped" to make the walk to the Counselors room. Children who have been evaluated and have mental health problems are in special classes with aides. Telling others "he has ADHD" does not solve the problem for him. J needs a complete neuro'psychological evaluation and professional guidelines on what is best for his future. He has so much potential and it breaks my heart to think that he will soon identify himself as a "bad boy". He is not, of course, a "bad boy" but he is not able to conform to the acceptable pattern of behavior consistently. You need a top quality professional to help you choose the course of his future and yours. Meanwhile I am rooting for you and particularly for J. DDD

I think you make some valuable points, DDD. And you have certainly been there done that. I'm honestly not complaining about the fact that J's behaviour is identified at times as difficult and unacceptable; it is the fact that there is no approach offered other than punishing him and blaming me. Which doesn't help anything.

Am I still hoping that somehow J's behaviour is just going to get better as he gets older? Should my priority be the psychological services and help that might exist for J - in which case, moving elsewhere in France is the ONLY solution open to me.

And all of a sudden the horrible behaviour has started shooting out all over the place. Picked him up from school at 4.30, we went into town, did some brief shopping, went to buy him riding boots and gloves, swimming goggles - all little extras for him, not unpleasant, he was fine in the shop. Then we went to the playground, he asked to go to McDonalds to the play centre and I said no - cue two year old tantrum and theatrics, refusing to get in the car, screaming, shouting, etc. If this is going to get worse then, yes, I need more concerted help. I really do. Solutions and skill learning, for both of us.

I think J does have potential, like all children. And yes, it is all going to go pear-shaped (horribly wrong) if things continue this way.

 

[whatamess]

Anyway, obviously my point of focus has to be J and not educating them!

Educating them does need to be a point of focus! Once they are no longer ignorant they will have tools to help J, so that it isn't only you! You are engaging in a bigger undertaking than you imagine- it's called systems change and it is a long and tedious process. You have to educate others in order to get J what he needs.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Malika... in my opinion... J is being "killed" by his current school situation. Everything in that environment is the opposite of what he needs. The behavior is escalating because school issues snowball FAST.

 

[DDD]

With all due and caring respect I don't believe that you have the knowledge yet to even propose with confidence how J's needs can be appropriately met. Reading books and seeking out message boards is hugely important. on the other hand there are not agreed upon steps to help "adhd" kids with varying behaviors, needs, IQ's, personal histories etc. Each child has unique manifesations of this unusual issue. For example the three children I raised all had problems in school but each had different problems. The eldest just couldn't settle down and medications made it possible for her to conform...but she also needed specialized private educators to help her over the learning hump. My now 25 year old had a very high iq and was in gifted classes. on the other hand he got out of school suspension at five for putting a tomato on his head during lunch. He also did much better with medication and advanced classes. The youngest needed to be outsourced for a few hours a day to a special education class as he had adhd plus two other issues. He also required multiple medications. All three of the children were cared for by a psychiatrist and all had therapy as well. The youngest is the only one who ever displayed physical violence and that was "for cause" and limited to two incidences.

Neuro/psychological evaluations were not available for the oldest in the 60's. Both boys, however, did have the advantage of those full evaluations and that provided deeper understanding of their needs and led to interventions that were of great help. In my experience there are rarely simple ways to adjust life and fix the big problems. It takes time and more time. Hugs. DDD

 

[TerryJ2]

Wow. I am stunned. What a bunch of intrusive ridiculousness!

I agree, difficult child would be better in a city where people actually know what ADHD is.

And Buddy made a good point about culture and individualism.

I have my fingers crossed about the Marrakech school visit!

 

[Malika]

Lol, Terry! Intrusive ridiculousness about sums it up.... I always respond to things over time rather than on the spur of the moment and now I feel quite angry about this intrusiveness, and the sheer bloody ignorance of it all. Jeez!

In reply to my questioning, J said he felt angry and upset towards the people at school who punish him all the time.

 

[Liahona]

I have not read all 32 posts so I may be repeating something. When I taught school my first priority was for the kids to feel safe, physically and emotionally. They don't learn very well if they aren't. Just for that reason alone I don't think you should wait to move. J will learn to read better somewhere else.

Good luck. I would've been devastated to be treated as you and your son are. (And really mad too.)

 

[TerryJ2]

by the way, Malika, have you ever read anything by Joanne Harris? She's French and English. Her themes are typically small-town France, deep, dark family secrets, morality, good and evil, future vs tradition, and smalltown busybodies, with-a bit of magic thrown in. I don't know if you would love or hate her books but she certainly knows what she's writing about.

 

[Malika]

I think she wrote "Chocolat", didn't she? In which case, I've seen the film... though such subjects are all a bit too close for comfort to be entertaining at the moment, I fear...
I have had a horrible afternoon with J. Basically I've let these villagers get to me and I've been crashing down on J when he speaks to me rudely or won't listen - whereas normally I'd joke him out of it or turn things round - and again he has instantly got completely ODD, with me then getting crosser and crosser and it spiralling into a frankly sub-abusive place where I am just ashamed of myself. I don't know why he reacts like this whereas a "normal" child would just accept it. In any case, this is the place I was when I first starting come to the board, in desperation, and I do not want to go back - quite apart from the fact that it is so destructive to him and our relationship.
Why have I let them shake my confidence in myself and my approach?? We have built up a lot, J has been doing so well - despite what they say at the school - and I'm letting myself slide back into reactive, unskilful behaviours to placate people who are just ignorant (not said pejoratively, just as an accurate statement.)...

 

[BusynMember]

Well, you have a whole culture of small town and smallminded neighbors telling you you're wrong. You even have the mayor coming to your door!!! I mean, that is unheard of in the US and maybe in other parts of France. I can't imagine a mayor, even a bored one, bothering to care if some little boy is rude to his mother sometimes. That's why many of us feel that maybe this just isn't a good place for J to grow up and certainly it is not affirming for YOU as a single mother of a challenging but hardly horrible son. Come here and listen to us, not them. If this little boy lived in the US, he would be offered help and you would get understanding. Not from all, but certainly no mayor would EVER show up at your door...lol. Ok, I know you can't and don't even want to come here, although we'd love to have both of you, but you can take him somewhere else. Lots of children move in the middle of the year and they still learn. The situation in your village, pretty though it may be as you gaze on it, has turned very ugly and hateful and you and your little boy deserve more dignity and caring than that. It isn't the mayor's business how you parent J. and I am guessing that in most places a mayor wouldn't give a flying fleep! And your neighbors are beyond just nosy; they are vicious. I'm sure there are some nice ones, but the nosy ones seem to run the place! You were doing a good job with your little boy. He responds to your methods. You can't make him what he is not. Trust your own instincts, not those of the village idiot(s). Can ya tell I'm mad???

 

[ThreeShadows]

Malika, I'm going to be really blunt. For ten years we lived as expats in France. My parents moved every two years and in each new school I was the only american child. Every new "rentrée d'école", the teacher would say "which one is the American one?". I had to stand up for all my new classmates to inspect me. This was excruciatingly painful. One year, I actually forgot that I was not one of "THEM'. I carved my name in my desk as countless French students had done before me. The teacher made me stand up in front of the class and accused me of damaging French property. No other student was punished that way. Do you remember the scene in Jane Eyre where she is made to stand on a chair and her classmates surrounded her, shaming her? I still can't breathe thinking about it and I am 64 years old.

I love France for the good cultural opportunities which it gave me, for my great palette, for the splendid education which it provided, for all my relatives, and for my ethnic roots. Please get J. the Hell out of there.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Why have I let them shake my confidence in myself and my approach??

Read more: http://www.conductdisorders.com/forum/f6/genies-out-bottle-52596/index2.html#ixzz2L7kIyrgi

Because you're an outsider in the village, too. It isn't just J.
Not that they would be accepting of J even if you had always been one of "them" until you went away for a few years and came back with J. But it's worse because you are an outsider to start with.
Not an outsider to "France" in general, but to "this village". And probably any other small village.
And yes, small villages - even HERE in open-minded Canada - tend to be close-minded and petty.

 

[Malika]

If J had been neurotypical, calm, quiet, polite all the time, we would have been well accepted and integrated. As it is, most of the people we encounter in the village are pleasent, friendly, polite... no sense that we are unwelcome intruders. However, under the surface, there is much gossip (about everyone, not just us), much judgement based on prejudice and no knowledge, an indissoluble sense of identity and belonging to which of course we could never lay claim. There are some really kindly old folks in the village, who have been supportive of me against my ghastly neighbours, for example. I must not give the impression it is hell on earth!! But in terms of the school, and their complete lack of understanding about ADHD and their inability to step outside of their rigid framework that if a child plays up it is because the parents are not doing their job... well, there I am facing a monolith that is never going to crumble. The learning curve necessary is just too steep. And I am angry about the sneaky, unpleasant tactics of this assistant in going to complain about me to the mayor's office (because the after school care is managed by them). Even there, I wonder if there is more to it.... could she be worried because I said to her something about it not being good for J to be punished all the time and she fears I may accuse her of something?? I really don't know. But I do know I have to start winding down our experience here. Too bad I can't sell my house, which is really now seeming like a burdensome thing...! I may be able to let it.
J is ADAMANT he wants to stay in France, even if we move from the village, and not go back to Morocco where he says he "doesn't understand what people are saying" Of course he would learn Arabic fluently, and this would be very good for him and his future possibilities - already from spending holidays there he can have simple, basic conversations. But there is not going to be the services available that there would be here... I have found a neuro-psychologist in the local big city (an hour and a half away) and will get a complete evaluation of J. This may make things clearer for us all.
Oh and your story Three Shadows... yes, it made me smile even though of course it was a horrible experience for a child. It would be better now, in most places and in big cities. But the French do, yes, remain... a little... chauvinistic.