Going out of my mind?!

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by Andee, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. Andee

    Andee New Member

    Somedays, like today, I truly do feel I'm losing my mind... or maybe I lost it a long time ago and just now realizing it! ;-)

    Tonight I went web-browzing to find info on ODD & ADHD together! The 2nd place I visited was here. Roaming around for 30 minutes or so, I decided to join. :) I soon discovered I was already a member! And apparently so for at least two years! LOL

    It's been such a crazy two years too!

    Today I hit the end of my rope - - - so I quickly tied a knot and wrapped it around one arm! LOL

    My young niece (7yo ADHD ODD ???) was getting rough, too rough, in her play. My 17yo daughter agrees they were just playing (not sure what) when my niece (DN) began slapping her in a playful way. She tried distracting her, to no avail; so changed tactics and told her she was getting too rough and needed to stop - and the next thing she knows DN takes a closed fist and pops daughter right in the mouth - HARD! This is a big problem as daughter is still recovering from a mouth injury and is very tender still. DN isn't even sorry about it - was laughing at it until I told her she's in big trouble now. She was only saddened at all because I was now punishing her for hitting daughter.

    DN has been so much more defiant the last few days - we're clueless about any reason.

    Sis just gives up on it all and whines about DN never listening to her.

    My kids are getting fed up with DNs behaviors and Sis' too.

    My FMS is flaring big time so all this is just adding to it more. It's bad enough that I can no longer just jump up and run to a kid screaming in pain like I used to - but to know that MY kids are way past this kind of thing and here I am starting it all over with my sister's kid plus my sister (who seems to knows nada about raising kids - tho she plays great with kids) and I wonder if I haven't just lost my mind in taking them in knowing at the same time there is no other option that would keep them together (but should they even be together?)

    What I need now is to make myself focus on what's needed for my DN, no matter how I'm feeling! I got thru 6 kids of my own that are all difficult children - so many diagnosis's & tx's, etc. But I was healthier then - I wasn't living in pain 24/7 - wasn't dealing with brain fog so often - and I can't seem to get my Sis to understand everything that's needed to deal with a kid like DN. I really feel like there's a piece or two missing in DNs diagnosis's - She was diagnosis'd with ADHD and ODD when she was just 3 years old... same round of testing also said she had an IQ of 126 (with-out any reading or math testing). At that point anything she learned was purely by osmosis as she was never still longer than 2 or 3 minutes.

    So I come here to try to figure out what's next - where do we go now?
    I've thought about counseling - for both DN and Sis.
    I've thought about more testing - that gets a bit tricky as we homeschool DN so having school do testing doesn't work too well - so then, who's to do testing?
    I'm a little lost in ADHD with-ODD in a kid this young. My ADHD kids weren't diagnosis'd until their teen years! By then we'd been thru so much that was like 'just another step' and no big deal. But, this kiddo is so smart too that sometimes I think I can see her thinking steps ahead of me! LOL So many times she seems to know exactly what's next - super fast reflexes.
    Not sure about seeking medications - for either - with-family history of so many allergies the less medications for anyone, the better.

    Welcoming any and all ideas tho! :)
  2. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    Do you have custody of your niece?
  3. Andee

    Andee New Member

    No, I don't have custody of her, legally, at this time. We have discussed the issue a bit, off and on. We do have papers signed (and if needed notorized) by my sister that put me on an almost equal level as her concerning things for both of them related to health, welfare, legal, and educational aspects. I need to organize my copies of such things better so I carry them with me when going to these various places in person. Some remember better than others. The ones that don't remember us signing all their necessary paperwork sometimes become very challenging to deal with.

    Sis falls into a real gray area. Her IQ technically comes out to high 70s - but the subtests show levels in the 60s, 70s, and one 90 so that gives one the impression that she's fully functional as an adult. The numbers slide when you begin to involve reasoning on anything. In a more concrete way, her math ability peaks at 5th grade while her language ability peaks at 7th grade. But when presented with a problem that does not have a solid right or wrong, yes or no, sort of answer, she comes up with ideas one might expect of a 10-12 year old child... sometimes that works just fine.

    We haven't yet figured out if this is from a lack of knowledge or if this is truly the best she can do. I think that's the biggest reason I've held back from custody or guardianship issues. There are areas in life where Sis shows amazing insight, but they are few and far between the times when you have wonder if she's ever going to learn 'this' (which could be almost anything)! My mom has done so much FOR her that it is possible she's not had the opportunity until living with me to do these things. But Sis herself often feels too inadequate to even try to learn new things. Is that from Mom always doing them, or from Mom always telling her "she can't do them" or from some problem within herself?

    This wasn't explained to me when Mom sent them up here. The initial plan was for Sis to work full-time, get her own place for herself & her daughter, and live close enough to me that we could help one another out from time to time. It's a long, long story, but the end of it is that we learned she wasn't capable of caring for all those responsibilities. When paychecks arrived she went first to buy toys (for her daughter? she had to like them too, and often would play with them more than her daughter) or clothes or lots of junk food. The more nutritional food was from the food pantry and often just sat in the cupboards or the fridge until it went bad. Rent, utilities, etc, weren't paid. Dishes that got dirty weren't cleaned, and often weren't even in the kitchen - until I or my kids went over there and began cleaning up things. Trash wasn't even collected. Beds weren't made. It was just the 2 of them, each having their own bedrooms, and there was plenty of space, plenty of closets, and yet everything was always such a mess!

    Also, according to Mom, my niece (at just 2.5y) was an absolute angel who put away her toys in the proper places, picked up her messes, always did what G'ma asked her to do, and seemed to love order and balance a lot more than any other 2yo Mom had ever known! This is not the child I now know at 7yo. They've been up here almost 5 years now. We've been living together, fully sharing everything, for almost 3 years.
  4. Jena

    Jena New Member


    I was going to say welcome, yet i'm sure that happened 2 years ago lol!!! That is kinda funny how insane our minds can get with raising our demanding kids.

    I for one think counseling is a great idea.

    Alright well welcome back!!
  5. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Hi, and welcome back.
    Wow, you raised 6 g'sfg? Amazing.

    You are a saint to take in your sister and her daughter. I think you need a break, but reading about your sister's IQ and issues, I can absolutely see why you took them in.

    I am wondering what happened (and so are you, I am sure!) to your niece, since she was an angel during the Terrible Twos and now she's got serious issues.

    Have you talked to your mom and your sister about how your niece was parented? Do they see changes too? Since you wrote about your sister buying your niece toys, and playing with-them, I'm wondering if your niece picked up on that and used it to her favor. She may even be brighter than her mom, which can complicate things as your niece grows up. She's going to always be one up on her.
    That's where you come in.
    I hope I am reading this right, and not offending you.

    If you go to counseling, which I would recommend, to learn some new parenting and discipline techniques, it should be family counseling with-you, your sister and your niece.

    Also, with-fibro and your other issues, make sure you get plenty of sleep and have a very strict regimine for bedtime. Take care of yourself!!!!
  6. nvts

    nvts Active Member

    Hey! Welcome (or welcome back! depending on how you want to look at it!) to the board!

    With sis' issues, I'm kind of assuming that you've got medicaid on your DN. Why not make arrangements for a neuropsychologist evaluation to be done on her?

    There are a million different things that could be wrong that mimic adhd and odd or may have them as components.

    I'd recommend that as well as reading "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene. It'll give you some insight as to how her brain may be processing things. You may even pick up a few tips on different way to handle her.

    Feel better - you pretty clearly deserve it!

  7. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    Welcome Back!

    It is a truly good thing you are doing helping your sister and your niece. It seems that your niece probably needs new evaluations. Can I ask if she is homeschooled for religious reasons, because there is a problem with the school, or for other reasons? It is OK if you don't want to say. We ahve a pretty good mix of kids here - with ALL kinds of educational choices. I homeschooled my oldest for 2 yrs, am homeschooling my middle child for the 3rd year (though we tried enrolling her this year but health issues thwarted that), and hope to NEVER homeschool my youngest - but I make those decisions up as they need to be made.

    Anyway, for evaluations, many here prefer neuropsychologists - some do very very complete evaluations with up to 12 hours of testing (broken into chunks, not all in a day or two) but some seem to do about 1-2 hours of testing and it is hard to know what each will do (hard with any doctor doing evaluations, in my opinion). Others prefer evaluations done by multidisciplinary teams for thoroughness. I had a great multidisc team at our developmental pediatrician's office. I think you really really NEED to have compete and thorough testing done - and don't stop until YOU are satisfied with the answers. At teh least kids should be evaluated about every 4 or 5 years.

    I strongly DO NOT recommend depending on a school system for evaluations. It isn't in their best interest to find issues. If they find them, or know about htem, then they have to make accomodations for them, and that costs $$$. Some schools are great but have lousy speech therapy, or whatever, or have great therapy but lousy schools, or it is impossible to get anyone to do the testing for whatever. I have always had to find private evaluations to get answers that made sense.

    I DO think it is time for you to read "The Explosive Child" by Ross Greene and since you live with DN to do what you can to set some structure. You may also like Love and Logic Parenting (www.loveandlogic.com for descriptions of all their books - some even come in audiobook format - perfect for commuting time if you commute anywhere).

    STick around for a while - others will come on with great ideas to help! Glad you came back!
  8. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I'm wondering if your sister is on the autism spectrum. She really sounds a lot like it--functional yet not able to figure things out--at any rate, has she agreed to an evaluation for her daughter (it wouldn't hurt her to have one herself too)? She would have to sign for one. I highly recommend a neuropsychologist evaluation. They often catch things others don't. ADHD/ODD is a very common, but often very wrong diagnosis and I'd want another opinion and NeuroPsychs test every area of functioning and from 6-10 hours. I think they're well worth it. I also would NOT trust a school district to evaluate this child correctly.
    I'm going to post an online test for autism/Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD). There are all sorts of autism from very low functioning to extremely high functioning to moderate and perhaps you can take the test with both your sister and your niece in mind. If she is on the spectrum that would explain why she doesn't seem to "get" life. I doubt if it's her lower IQ. Many people with lower IQs can still do simple life skills and your sister can't. Here's the test :) Welcome to the board.

    Last edited: Nov 18, 2008
  9. Andee

    Andee New Member

    About my six... #1 came 6 weeks early, 18 weeks after her ID twin was miscarried. The placenta was over 50% necrotic at delivery (related to the baby miscarried). She was septic at birth; went to NICU Isolation right away; spent a week on strong antibiotics; had her 1st of dozens of ear infections at 2 weeks - so multiple courses of various antibiotics; tubes went in the first time around 9 months - and she heard her first fire engine! Scared her so badly! We lived 3 houses down from the fire station. Tubes were supposed to help keep ear infections away - didn't - for her. After the surgery she began having many other problems and was diagnosis'd with apnea and bradycardia (yes, at 9 mos). She started school with an EI program because at 3 she still wasn't talking - just saying a few isolated words. Hearing tests still showed moderate loss in both ears. In 1st grade we added absence seizures to her growing list of diagnosis's (seizures-absence & febrile, hearing loss, speech delay, chronic recurrent ear infections). School was challenging with ARD meetings every quarter and IEPs updated every year because things were always changing with her. At 16 we added Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) and ADHD to the mix. At 25 most of the childhood issues have resolved but she still has Central Auditory Processing Disorder (CAPD) and ADHD to deal with plus PTSD (from abusive dad).
    #2 came 4-5 weeks late, postmature issues, did fine until 12 mos. Caught a virus, sick for 3 months, fevers at times were 105, began losing skills, by 15 mos could no longer feed herself or even sit up; switched docs - new pedi saw a baby in resp distress from 10-15 feet away and came to us instantly! Put her on asthma medications with great success. Then we discovered the prolonged hypoxia had caused brain damage. By 39 mos we had a list of diagnosis's: Seizures- tonic/clonic or grand mal, absence, complex partial, partial, febrile and "drop" (I forget the medical term - but total loss of muscle function); speech delay with-out hearing loss; developmental delay (functioning at 6mos then); ? on cognitive development. That was answered somewhat when the therpists realized she had a photographic memory and could memorize, comprehend and repeat ASL with a single exposure - she began learning 20-30 signs per session! And using them right away at home while we consulted the many sheets of signs sent home with her. LOL At 4 we learned she was nearly blind - strong eyeglass prescription was done and when they were put on her she immediately signed "Mom has face!"!!! At 10 we added global apraxias to her list, static encephalopathy, poorly controlled seizure disorder, poorly controlled asthma, vision issues, speech issues... in so many ways she was still behind her peers. At 13 we added congenital hip dysplasia, and ADHD with-bipolar tendencies. At 17 we added schizoaffective disorder with-depression. At 22 we added spinal osteoarthritis... and she was finally approved for SSI/SSDI.
    ... time for dinner... sorry folks... I'll get back on later tonight and continue my replies! And work on getting to know all of you more. :)
  10. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    "Mom has face!"
    I love it!
    What a lot of issues. Holy cow.
    I'm speechless.
    Back to what I said earlier--you are a saint. :)
  11. Andee

    Andee New Member

    So to continue:
    #3 came along 1 week late but otherwise fine, quick study, at 9mos having thus far refused all forms and flavors of baby foods and so being still totally breastfed she was introduced to McD's french fries and thereby quit nursing cold turkey and began eating what the rest of the family ate - this should have been "sealing the deal" that this kid was unique in setting her own standards and pace! (can you be Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) at this age? LOL) Healthwise she was fine - had chicken pox at age 4 and gave them to her whole pre-k class right at the end of the year because we thought they were ant bites! At 5, in K now, she caught pneumonia (having never had anything worse than a cold) that was elusive to docs (very long story) until she told them where to find it - specifically stating it was hurting behind her heart and under the breastbone (a strategic 5th series of x-rays finally confirmed it was in the lower left lobe) so she finally got put on the right treatment regime and recovered nicely. All remained well until she was 8 - and was suddenly taken down by systemic Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis... diagnosis was delayed by local docs as the symptoms came on so suddenly... 5 days, 6 ER visits, 3 clinic visits, and 1 inpatient stay later we took her to Mayo Clinics/hospitals in Rochester MN where she was finally diagnosed but near death by then - agressive treatments began - she was labeled 12th worst case ever documented and given a less than 40% chance of surviving. Today she's been in remission for several years - at 20 she is a junior in college majoring in Theatre & Music & Textile Arts (presently cast as the female lead in Shakespeare's Midsummer Night's Dream) and only has some minor residule joint issues from the sJRA, but is also now diagnosis'd with Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD) and has been Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD) diagnosis'd since she was 12.
    #4 came 7 weeks early with multiple complications - no spontaneous breath, first apgar was only 5, second was 8. He was first of four and one of two ID boys. Baby C was the reason behind delivery and it was clear he didn't agree with her! Early on he fought with respiratory issues, eventually gaining a diagnosis of Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD), he had congenital heart issues- VSD, he also had reflux right away. By age 1yr he was diagnosis'd with-asthma, the VSD had shrunk by half, reflux was still bad, developmental delays in speech, and tubes in both ears due to chronic fluid issues, plus severe strabismus. At 2 they added moderate hearing loss and possible seizure disorder and amblyopia. At 3 he was on his 3rd set of tubes but speech was within normal limits and last seizure was at 28 months - asthma was getting worse - VSD was closed. By this point he'd been inpatient 9 times, all for respiratory issues, including RSV. He's never tolerated cow-based dairy products - but he loves them and at 17 now I leave it up to him to deal with the consequences. At 12 he was put thru weeks of testing that left us without any clear answer but supposedly ruled out celiac - however the time period that was gluten free was the best ever for his whole digestive tract and his energy level - but he was very unhappy not being able to have many of his favorite foods. (a case for me to carefully pick my battles with him) All his problems now stem from the "tummy" issues. Asthma has been gone for a few years now.
    #5&6 - their stories are so identical I'll do them together to save us all some time. They are 2nd and 3rd of four - two identical girls. Both also arrived 7 weeks early with multiple complications, they shared a placenta and the outer sac but each had her own inner sac. For one, the 3rd, Baby C, the sacs had torn and she was at risk for the cord collapsing, except for the fact that the two babies below her then were completely transverse and totally blocking any fluid from escaping - but it would be critical in the timing of delivery. Both girls did fine with-breathing but needed tube feeds a few days and had trouble with temp control. They also both had VSDs - Baby B had one hole a little larger than Baby A had, but the 2nd girl, Baby C, had two holes that combined were much larger than either A or B. Happily these too self-resolved by age 4. By that time the list of their diagnosis's included: developmental delays, hearing loss (moderate to severe), oral apraxia later changed to global apraxia, Sensory Integration Disorder (SID), Reactive Attachment Disorder (RAD)/asthma, multiple allergies, Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD)-not otherwise specified, strabismus, eczema and mild reflux. Now at 17 the Sensory Integration Disorder (SID) is still a sometimes issue, the apraxias remain but the girls are more comfortable working with it, eczema & allergies continue. They both still have one tube remaining in one ear (5th and last time that surgery was done they were 9yrs old) and have residual hearing losses that are mild enough to not be too concerned. It's obvious they have speech problems but they are mostly intelligible to others. They both fight depression fairly often but we're working with it. :)
    (Baby D died inutero due to only have a two chamber heart - From Baby A to Baby D, all suffered essentially the same congenital heart defect, likely caused by a virus I had early in the pregnancy, the effect was sequentially worse in the order they were attached to the uterine wall)

    Now, about my niece, Sis was married (to some guy with an even lower IQ) briefly at the time DN was born (he is not her father - and that is stated in their divorce decree too) which allowed Sis to stay home for her first few months and dote on her. From about 4 mos to 2y9m they lived with Mom 4 different times and inbetween had really cheap small apts. The longest stretch with Mom was close to 8 months at the end of that time. When they arrived here DN was still in diapers but beginning potty-training. She didn't talk much. She clung to her mom when she was around. Seemed pretty typical for her age, given that she was in totally unfamiliar territory.
    Mom's way of parenting was quite strict - she kept a large wooden spoon - and used it to spank DN if she did anything out of line. I asked my Sis if she agreed with the idea and she said it was only thing that worked with DN, the only thing that stopped her from doing bad things. Sis didn't think DN really kept her stuff as neat as G'ma described but her room was always clean - she thought Mom cleaned it maybe with DN.
    I do think you may be right that DN somehow plays on Sis' way of playing first and uses that to get what she wants more. I also feel that DN is more and more realizing that her mom isn't like most grownups but she hasn't vocalized this yet.

    Nothing you wrote offended me in any way! :)

    Counseling is being looked into.

    And I am trying to watch out for me too - it was a lot easier (and quicker) for me to get things done with my kids when I was healthier. I've had to learn a lot about being on their side of the fence in many ways. Now we make jokes about who sees how many docs now or who's had the most appts this week or something. LOL Many times I've got them beat! We don't know yet if that's a good thing or not. LOL
  12. Andee

    Andee New Member

    Sis works parttime so they both qualify for medicaid. :) I'm looking into whether or not the HMO she's with even has neuropsychologist people... I know the one I use does but it's been a real challenge trying to find the right person to talk to that can change her plan.

    I will be looking for that book at our local library when I go later this week.

    And I do feel better coming back here. I'm still sorta dumbfounded that I had joined over two years ago and didn't remember it! But then - I'm not so surprised considering all my health issues; memory can be so unpredictable!
  13. Andee

    Andee New Member

    We homeschool for many reasons - but primarily it's due to the way the schools deal (or not) with the kids' many issues.
    DN has been in public school(s) - Sis worked for a daycare the last year they lived with my mom (that's somehow connected to how they ended up living with her yet again after Sis got a job there) and DN stayed at the daycare while Sis was working. Sis was the main driver - taking kids to and from schools. When they moved up here, Sis got a job right away and we got DN into a private in-home daycare. DN seemed to always be getting hurt and we were told she was mean to the other kids (all younger) and wouldn't listen. We then put into a more business like daycare. She was 3 by then, but had to stay with the younger kids because she was still in diapers/pullups. Again, frequent issues with being mean and getting hurt; plus now problems coming with eating - she has several severe allergies to common foods (dairy, beef, egg, chicken, orange/citrus, and so on) but she refusing to eat her foods once she saw what the "regular" kids got and then she'd try to take their foods. Behavior problems increased at home and at my place which Sis was coming over almost daily after work saying she couldn't deal with DN - they'd stay until after dinner then head home, supposedly to bed but Sis would tell me they didn't get to sleep until 12 or 1am most nights because DN wouldn't settle down. Then they're up again by 5:30 or 6am because Sis went to work at 7am. We tried Headstart - they are used to getting challenging kids. ;-) But even that didn't work too well. At the time I felt like maybe this kid just needed some major stability instead of so many things changing all the time. So I offered to keep her at home with me - then come summer one or both of my younger girls could maybe be the babysitter and get some pay for it. :) It took her a few months, almost until summer, but she began to settle some, not be so mean to everyone, talk a little more, and I started keeping notes on things. There were some things she seemed so smart about - she was eager to learn new things but only IF they were interesting to her. Then there were other things, stuff my kids had loved at that age, that she had no interest in at all. We (Sis & I) decided to try putting her in the Montessori program that the local school district had been running the last few years. She got in - seemed to like it. By mid-year she was getting timeouts for hitting or otherwise hurting other students; she had pulled so many pranks (like going in and locking all the bathroom stalls and then leaving like she'd done nothing; moving kids' inside shoes into other lockers (lockers were unlocked for this age group); doing the same with kids' jackets and coats; taking every ball in the bin out and sending it bouncing away - 20+ balls loose in about 20 seconds. She only played with others on her terms - refusing to allow anyone else to take the lead. By the end of the year she'd been sent or called to the principle's office over a dozen times and most school days she spent well over 50% of her time in timeout and not being allowed to participate in movies or other groups activities because she was so disruptive. Even they were running out of ideas on how to work with her and help her learn better how to be around others.

    During the summer we watched a lot of negative behaviors die out and began thinking that maybe she just wasn't ready for school. By state law she didn't yet have to be enrolled, so we decided to keep her home for a year and see how things worked out. There have been improvements: she's happier; she's not getting hurt daily; she's not screaming at everyone so much; she's not hitting others as much. She still loves to pull pranks - but is learning that others have boundaries too and she will have to pay the consequences if she chooses to pull a prank that crosses that line with someone. She does still largely control what and when she does anything - willfully. She still heartily resists being told what she's to do and/or when to do it. We find compromises with some things.

    This is the first school year that she's had to be enrolled in school. Because of the special diet needs, the attention issues, the agressiveness issues, and her very stubborn tendencies to go against anything that she doesn't initiate we decided keeping her home on the routine developed over the last year or so is better for her.

    But that's probably what's put me to the point of losing my mind now! LOL Tho I know it's only temporary. ;-)
    However, I do hope to stick around here on a more permanent basis! :)
  14. Andee

    Andee New Member

    I would like to thank all of you - Jennifer, TerryJ2, Beth, Susiestar, MidwestMom - for the warm welcomes (or welcome backs) ;-) and the many great comments and ideas!

    This IS a soft place to land in the chaotic world of our lives with such wonderful and challenging kids!

    I'm sure by now most of you won't read this until Wednesday morning. It's past my bedtime, that's for sure. ;-) But I felt I needed to respond to each of you in some way. Most of what I've been thru with my own kids didn't get so much into conduct and behavior until their teen years. At that point all six were in counseling, actually precipitated by my separation/divorce from their abusive dad. So they got help almost as the conduct issues came up and perhaps some were even circumvented altother.

    NONE of my kids, even those with ADHD diagnosis's later, were as inattentive as DN at the same age. They had physical issues that meant delays and limits as to what they could actually do. So even if they did act out in some way - they couldn't run from me. DN can and often does run from me - she knows I can't move so fast - and she's lightning fast at times. She is always moving some part of her body. I've accepted that she is not able to focus unless something is in motion - so we work on moving parts that won't interfere with what she's supposed to be doing, or moving parts that help out what she's supposed to be doing. She's accepted a written schedule of things to do each day - some time frames have multiple options, some state only one thing. 30 minute blocks are sometimes divided into 2 15-minute blocks. When we stray from the schedule, she loses control more. She seems to thrive on consistent routine, keeping things in the same places, making everything have order. But there's a long way to go before my entire house and all it's members are all keeping to the schedule and keeping everything in the same place. Sis can't even begin to think of sticking to a schedule or a routine at all - and forget about keeping things orderly and in the same places!

    My #2 daughter was recently diagnosis'd with ODD on top of everything else - and I can sort of see it in her - she does oppose others quite often and gets very defiant about doing things the way someone else wants them done - but I've always seen that as her way of dealing with a body that didn't work like it was supposed to. If she didn't fight it and didn't force herself to do things outside "normal" then she'd never have made it this far. She went from being a kid at age 3 that docs suggested I should put in an institution because she will never walk or talk or have any sort of normal life --- to being in school plays (requiring walking and talking - tyvm), passing high school with honors, going on to college and is now a little over a year away from a BA in Culinary arts specialing in pastry & baking. In her case it seems almost like ODD was a natural side-effect and necessary for survival.

    With DN - I just don't know. Yeah, she's oppositional, she's defiant, she's also got a very short attention span, had a very unstable first 3 years, has a mom with definite problems in being an adult, but she's very bright, often learns new things with just one exposure to them, gets bored very easily, and if the whole day could pass with her being fully able to decide what to do and when she'd be just fine. :) She has an energy level that is unbelievable - and she can get lots accomplished - when she wants to - and she'll love doing it all - so long as she can be in control all the time. Obviously, at 7 years old, she lacks wisdom in making good decisions so she can't be in control all the time.

    Anyway, thanks again to all of you for just being here, for listening, for sharing your ideas and experience too!
  15. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    If you are as attentive to your kids as you have been to us on this thread, you are SUPERMOM!
    Your observations that DN thrives on routine are right on the money. All of our kids are like that. They do not transition well and they need routine.
    It's not always easy in real life, though. :(