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The Watercooler
Good essay on men, emotions, and suicide
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<blockquote data-quote="SuZir" data-source="post: 566373" data-attributes="member: 14557"><p>I feel like elaborating my earlier comment to this. </p><p></p><p>This is really a topic I'm finding difficult in parenting right now. We live in the part of the world that in many studies is considered the least masculine, least macho. Even our sports tend to be less macho than yours but still this is a problem. And I'm raising two boys in sports world, in team sport. And other of my boys is rather vulnerable and sensitive.</p><p></p><p>Around here this is not so much a issue with adult sports but very much so in certain junior levels. Especially the age groups my both sons are, those U16, U18 and U20 teams. How bad it is depends from club's culture (one of difficult child's former teams was horrible in this regard, they really had this tough guy ethos) and also much about the leading boys in the team and their attitudes and life situations. Even having a girlfriend (instead of trying to find one night stands) can be considered sissy, and being nice to your girlfriend can certainly be sissy. So is showing any emotion except a haughty teenage contempt. And if the leading boys happen to be smart it can be much, much better too. Differences in two different teams in same club can be huge. My easy child is just now seeing this. He is teetering between two junior groups in same club. He is mostly with U18 group and at times with U20 and the atmosphere in this is different between the teams. Luckily the older boys team is one that is less macho so easy child is more likely trying to adapt that attitude. And in same club their second team in same age group is so totally macho it is sickening (luckily easy child is not with them at all, but is only friends with few boys there.) Differences in mentality are big and it is not something adults could do a lot about. And when kids want to fit in they adapt to those values and it certainly leaves a mark.</p><p></p><p>Things luckily change a lot when they come to men's level. Of course, when most are actually men they do have much less need to come off as men. They are that anyway. And when in sports experience and age make a big difference in one's position in pecking order, it means that older, more experienced players are the ones who set a atmosphere and values of the team. So macho things tend to go drastically down. For example my difficult child gets teased trying to come off as macho by his team-mates. difficult child learned that during his junior years and haven't really understood yet that it is not cutting it with adult men. But he is learning, I hope.</p><p></p><p>Around here gay athletes and their experiences have been a lot in media lately. Especially junior years are very hard for male gay team sport athletes. If they make it to adult level, it gets a lot better. There are for example few players in difficult child's league who being gay is a 'public secret' and no one cares. But still no one is openly gay, mostly maybe because in our culture it is considered to be rather personal, even celebrities don't usually speak about matter before it comes evident when they marry someone of same sex and partly because being gay could be a huge issue for an athlete in some other countries they may end up playing. I feel lucky that it seems that we dodged that bullet with our sons (I did wonder with difficult child in certain point, but now it seems that he is likely straight) because it would had caused so much additional angst. And there is enough of that already.</p><p></p><p>But a lot of that macho bull feces in kids teams is rather bigoted and homophobic and that really stinks. And it really can go so far that even any positive emotions towards a girlfriend are considered sissy and gay. Makes it really hard to raise these boys to be smarter and accepting their emotions and dealing with them. Luckily it is only those few years, but it is few years too many.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="SuZir, post: 566373, member: 14557"] I feel like elaborating my earlier comment to this. This is really a topic I'm finding difficult in parenting right now. We live in the part of the world that in many studies is considered the least masculine, least macho. Even our sports tend to be less macho than yours but still this is a problem. And I'm raising two boys in sports world, in team sport. And other of my boys is rather vulnerable and sensitive. Around here this is not so much a issue with adult sports but very much so in certain junior levels. Especially the age groups my both sons are, those U16, U18 and U20 teams. How bad it is depends from club's culture (one of difficult child's former teams was horrible in this regard, they really had this tough guy ethos) and also much about the leading boys in the team and their attitudes and life situations. Even having a girlfriend (instead of trying to find one night stands) can be considered sissy, and being nice to your girlfriend can certainly be sissy. So is showing any emotion except a haughty teenage contempt. And if the leading boys happen to be smart it can be much, much better too. Differences in two different teams in same club can be huge. My easy child is just now seeing this. He is teetering between two junior groups in same club. He is mostly with U18 group and at times with U20 and the atmosphere in this is different between the teams. Luckily the older boys team is one that is less macho so easy child is more likely trying to adapt that attitude. And in same club their second team in same age group is so totally macho it is sickening (luckily easy child is not with them at all, but is only friends with few boys there.) Differences in mentality are big and it is not something adults could do a lot about. And when kids want to fit in they adapt to those values and it certainly leaves a mark. Things luckily change a lot when they come to men's level. Of course, when most are actually men they do have much less need to come off as men. They are that anyway. And when in sports experience and age make a big difference in one's position in pecking order, it means that older, more experienced players are the ones who set a atmosphere and values of the team. So macho things tend to go drastically down. For example my difficult child gets teased trying to come off as macho by his team-mates. difficult child learned that during his junior years and haven't really understood yet that it is not cutting it with adult men. But he is learning, I hope. Around here gay athletes and their experiences have been a lot in media lately. Especially junior years are very hard for male gay team sport athletes. If they make it to adult level, it gets a lot better. There are for example few players in difficult child's league who being gay is a 'public secret' and no one cares. But still no one is openly gay, mostly maybe because in our culture it is considered to be rather personal, even celebrities don't usually speak about matter before it comes evident when they marry someone of same sex and partly because being gay could be a huge issue for an athlete in some other countries they may end up playing. I feel lucky that it seems that we dodged that bullet with our sons (I did wonder with difficult child in certain point, but now it seems that he is likely straight) because it would had caused so much additional angst. And there is enough of that already. But a lot of that macho bull feces in kids teams is rather bigoted and homophobic and that really stinks. And it really can go so far that even any positive emotions towards a girlfriend are considered sissy and gay. Makes it really hard to raise these boys to be smarter and accepting their emotions and dealing with them. Luckily it is only those few years, but it is few years too many. [/QUOTE]
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Good essay on men, emotions, and suicide
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