Guns. Woken up to 2 news stories here in the UK.

[BusynMember]

The Oklahoma City bombing and 9-11 attest to that.

One time incidents and bombs are illegal.

 

[Tanya M]

One time incidents and bombs are illegal.

Yes, bombs are illegal but the "laws" did not stop the bombing or the use of planes to kill people.

My point is that if someone is intent on killing they will do so regardless if they have a gun or not.

As for one time incidents, not so much. The 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, the Atlanta bombing at the Olympics, the Boston Marathon bombing, the attempted bombing in 2001 by the "shoe bomber", and let's not forget the numerous bombs that Ted Kaczynski mailed.

 

[AppleCori]

Ok--so, I think this conversation is covering a wide range of topics.

Let's leave aside for now, knives, bombs, brass knuckles, broken beer bottles, etc.

Even the topic of guns involves many different situations calling for different actions.

Hunting--we have covered this one fairly thoroughly--there are lots of laws regulating hunting. Should there be more? Maybe. That is one topic. But I don't think that hunting accidents, while they happen, are the major source of gun violence in this country.

Guns for protection--Mr. & Mrs. Suburbia, or Small Town, or even Rural who buy a handgun solely for protection. They may or may not practice that often. Most of the time the gun sits gathering dust, because the likelihood of them ever needing it is pretty small. There are some accidents that happen. I am not familiar enough with handgun use or regulation to speculate on whether the laws are sufficient. Not a huge part of the gun violence problem, though.

Vigilantes who are frothing at the mouth to find someone to kill? I don't think there are that many.

People with mental health problems and anger issues along with drugs and drug violence, and illegal guns are the biggest problems we face.

The people in Chicago and other big cities are not, generally, being terrorized by people with legally-owned firearms.

 

[InsaneCdn]

Our country's problems need to be met and dealt with at the root level. More laws and rules are only a band aid.

True on our side of the border as well.
We may need the band aids - but they are not the real answer.

An interesting point from this side of the border is that it is surprising how much domestic violence is perpetuated by use of guns, and in particular hand-guns. Tighter controls on guns does seem to reduce domestic fatalities, as guns are not available as an "answer" in the heat of the moment. This is a situation that plays out in the city and in the country... it isn't really a GUN problem, it's a domestic violence problem which happens to be made worse by guns.

Is there more gun violence if there are more guns available? My take on this is: likely. Is there less violence if guns are less available? My take on this is: No. Violence is violence, and controlling guns doesn't impact the violence.

This is why dealing with root causes is the only lasting solution. Unfortunately... to do so takes significant funding, and most people are not willing to pay for the changes.

 

[BusynMember]

The people in Chicago and other big cities are not, generally, being terrorized by people with legally-owned firearms.

The guns originally were in the hands of somebody who legally bought them and sold them. They didn't come out of nowhere and in the cities they are everywhere and people are shooting. And killing. They are not doing drive by knivings. So apparently the legal gun owner, not all who are responsible but most are, are somehow ending up with guns that are being used illegally.

We can't stop violence. People are violent. We can minimize mass violence. We can minimize kids getting killed by guns going off. This happens and most of the guns are legal but stupid owners who leave out guns can purchase guns in this country. There is no way to stop idiots from buying guns. I think Adam Lanza's mom was a moron to teach her kid to shoot. Bet her gun was legal. Well, she's dead now as are other innocent children who did nothing to Adam Lanza. He is not that rare, at least in the U.S.

If guns were a good idea other countries would model ours. They aren't. It's not (my opinion) and if you have access to a loaded gun there is more of a chance that there will be mass murders, not just the odd event like 911 and Oklahoma. These are daily occurrences to those who live in warzones.

Somebody is selling a lot of guns to a lot of irresponsible people and the beat goes on.

 

[InsaneCdn]

The guns originally were in the hands of somebody who legally bought them and sold them. They didn't come out of nowhere

Most guns used by gangs (at least here in Canada) did not begin as legal, registered firearms. They are smuggled into the country from other parts of the world.

Which is why gun control does not reduce the criminal use of firearms by much. Gun control reduces gun use in anger, and in insanity. Which is not insignificant.

 

[BusynMember]

Not here. They are easy to buy. Anyone can sell a gun to anyone. I could buy one today at a resale house nearby. I am not supposed to be able to because I have mental illness but I could. I could buy one at a gun show or online. They are easy to buy...no need to be smuggled in. Our state allows conceal carry. There is no reason to smuggle here. They are legal. I could buy one for my seven year old grandson and teach him to shoot and take him hunting. Where I live almost everyone owns guns. That's why it's really impossible to ban them, not that most Americans want that, not even email me. I just want background checks and illegal gun owners thrown in jail. I also strongly believe that every gun owner should have to demonstrate he knows how to use it and take a test on gun safety, like you do when you want to drive a car. And no gun use or ownership until age 18.

 

[InsaneCdn]

And no gun use or ownership until age 18

I'm guessing you've always lived in the city?

That won't fly in the countryside. Sorry. No different than driving. You grow up on a farm, you DRIVE from the time your feet reach the pedals. And you are learning about and using guns from the time you start school. It's the reality of country life.

No "ownership" until 18, ok... if you're going to use one as a "young person" then it has to be someone else's gun, with someone else's oversight of what you are doing, which is happening anyway. But no USAGE? Not a hope.

"Dad" doesn't have time to go reduce the gopher population. That's the kids' job. Same with the pigeons. Teenaged older brother might be carrying a rifle in the truck in case he catches sight of the coyote pack that's been harassing the calves. It's a step-by-step learning process. How to handle, how to store, how to care for, safety, etc. You learn it every day of your life.

 

[BusynMember]

I lived near a city most of my life, yes. I am aware that country living is different. And, of course, there is no hope that kids won't be given guns and told how to shsoot as early as five. I know kids who hunt at that age.

Funnily, where there is so much teaching about guns, there is much less crime of killiIt's easily the safest way to live.

 

[nerfherder]

Funnily, where there is so much teaching about guns, there is much less crime of killiIt's easily the safest way to live.

Works that way with sex ed too. the Baby Vikings here learn where babies come from soon as they learn why, say, Mr. Pigglewiggle jumped on Daisy Pig and is still there. And 3 months, 3 weeks and 3 days later see the little piglets.

The two oldest BVs have been to the range, after starting with BB guns in the orchard, followed by pellet rifles in the orchard. They're both pretty good shots, and know better than to mess with the stuff when grownups aren't around to give permission. They have both helped whe Blacksmith and I butcher goats - they have seen what a bullet can do. Baby Viking #3 has seen too, but we don't expect her to really understand cause and effect like that either.

 

[BusynMember]

What I meant to say that my tablet scrambled is that no doubt that where teaching early and just as a way of life about gun safety seems to help dramatically. I live near rural and you rarely hear of a shooting. The country culture is hard-working and responsible.
Where there are problems is where there is poverty...anger, no family ties, no jobs, no gun or any real education.
This then becomes a societal problem.
I like insane Canadian s point. It's true.