Have you ever *really* thrown your kid out?

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Bean, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. Bean

    Bean Member

    ... if they have nowhere to go?

    I'm really struggling with my daughter being here. It just changes the surface of the entire household for me. Not being able to leave her here alone or with the siblings. I feel great guilt over all of this, but it is just ruining me emotionally, physically. I've been so edgy and probably a bear to live with, too. No alone time with husband anymore, no alone time with myself really.

    She's got no job, nobody who will take her in. I feel like I should be stronger than I am and should be able to "buck up" a little bit, but I can't. Our house was just starting to feel more like normal, stable and now we're back to the same thing. She's not quite as abusive and disrespectful, but even the little bit that she's displaying is too much, honestly. I've been through this before and I don't know that I'll be able to endure it again.
     
  2. ThreeShadows

    ThreeShadows Quid me anxia?

    husband took difficult child 2 from his psychiatric hospital discharge and brought him to a shelter for teens in a different community. difficult child was very clear that the time spent at the hospital had been useless and he wasn't going to change his drugging life style. husband was devastated, came to me shaking and freaking out, but he DID it! I was proud that he finally stood up for those of us who were being impacted by the chaos.

    Three days later difficult child 2 walked back to our community!
     
  3. emotionallybankrupt

    emotionallybankrupt New Member

    I didn't actually "throw her out," but I've refused to allow her to come back in. I have a close friend who did recently force her adult child to leave--finally--after enduring a lot of "junk," giving chance after chance, and paying a very high price physically, emotionally, financially--you know.

    At the time I took the stance I took with mine, my friend wasn't "there" yet, to be able to fully relate to me. Then she reached her personal breaking point. I think that's what we all have to do. She and I both--but differently--got to the point that we knew we HAD to make a change for survival's sake. For her, there was a single "defining moment" when she knew she had no option, and she made him leave immediately. For me, there were too many points of "chipping away" for me to isolate a single moment when the decision was clear and final. I think you'll know when you're "there," and you'll have a certain peace with the decision though not the situation.

    It's a heartbreaking place to be, but my friend and I both have a clear conscience, knowing that we absolutely checked EVERY reasonable option/intervention off the list before reaching that point of saying "no more." You say you've "been through this before," so I'm guessing you have a fairly good idea of how the scenario will play out if you make the same moves as before. Even if you are able to "hang on" for the ride and absorb the additional damage to yourself, do you think it would really help her? In my case--as in my friend's case--we came to the conclusion that we were each draining ourselves of everything we had to give, and it wasn't helping our children one bit.

    I heard a talk show recently, where the dad of a severely troubled son asked the host, "Let's play this out. What if I throw him out? Then what? Where will he go and what will happen to him?" The response was, "Well, what will happen if you don't?" I think that sometmes the only hope is change, and I'm not sure what options you have in the current setting that haven't been used up already.

    You DON'T owe it to your child to sacrifice EVERYTHING--putting yourself in the hospital or worse. My body was telling me very clearly that I was on a fast track to a heart attack or a stroke, and my PCP had already told me the same thing. I could have followed that path through, but it wouldn't have saved her.
     
  4. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I have thrown my difficult child out many times. The problem is she won't go. I would have to file eviction papers and have the police escort her out. I have many times refused to let her back in after one of her disappearances but she bangs on the door for hours and again I would have to call the police and have her arrested. There will comea day when I do that because I will snap. But we have had the police in our lives for so many years I hate to go down that road again.

    I don't see my difficult child ever being self sufficient where she canmove out on her own. She will most probably live on the street or in a drug house somewhere. It is heartbreaking. I don't want to live my last years like this.

    Nancy
     
  5. janebrain

    janebrain New Member

    Yes, I did when she was a little over 18. But, she was with boyfriend so at least she wasn't all alone. They went to the Red Cross and got shelter from them. I'm not sure exactly what led me to the point where I was ready to say no more but I think it had a lot to do with my younger dtr who was suffering from all of the drama.

    I had one of those "lightbulb" moments where I realized I had to put younger dtr first, for the first time in her life. I had always put difficult child 1 first because of her issues. My older son and younger dtr were pretty much left to fend for themselves. I decided no more--difficult child had sucked up all our financial resources, our emotional energy, everything--and for what? Nothing! Nothing we did to help her actually seemed to help, only enabled her.

    So, I not only kicked her out but I have never allowed her to come back. Luckily she hasn't really tried to come back--she did try when she was 8 months pregnant but she lived across the country from me and I told her she could not come for a "visit" because I knew what she was up to--she wouldn't leave. She made the mistake of telling me she was getting a one-way ticket!

    Her younger sister has been in therapy for years because of life with difficult child. She told me a couple of days ago that she wishes difficult child wasn't her sister and that she felt she was a terrible person for saying that. But, it is what it is. She has good reasons for her feelings.

    Good luck to you. I personally don't feel you should have to put up with all this **** and if she was my kid I would not let her live with me.

    Jane
     
  6. Mom2oddson

    Mom2oddson Active Member

    The saying that I use and that I'm trying to get husband to understand is that "Nothing changes unless something changes" And since we can't change someone else. It is US that has to change. If you keep following the same pattern over and over, you will get the same result. Maybe it is time to change.

    When I changed this year and refused to go to my mother in law's for Christmas things changed...mainly for me because I realized that I don't have to suffer from her yuck. And my changing seems to have given husband just the tiniest permission to not take all of her yuck. He has a long way to go, but seeing that the world didn't end because of what I did, he has a little hope.

    husband isn't there with his kids yet. 6 weeks ago, he laid down the law to difficult child-A - have your GED by 7/16 or your phone is being turned off. difficult child-A hasn't done a thing about getting it except texting husband that he will do it....whatever. difficult child-A is playing husband like always and husband is falling for it. husband is already back-peddling with me about leaving his phone on. I knew this was going to happen and so did difficult child-A. Until husband changes his patterns, difficult child-A can continue to play his games with no consequences.... we all know it.

    I wish you the best of luck and hope you have the strength to make the changes neccesary so that the pattern changes. Good luck and we are here for you if you need us to hold you up and reinforce you.
     
  7. Doddlin

    Doddlin Guest

    Yes. difficult child#1 had to go the summer after he turned 18 for being belligerent, sneaking out to get drunk at night and not keeping the deal to attend school with satisfactory progress.
     
  8. Bean

    Bean Member

    Thanks all. In circles like this you always hear the advice, but then I wonder if anyone has ever really done it.

    My friends give me advice, but having never lived through it and never had the fears, heartbreak, anxieties, etc. -- they can't really know how it is, you know?
     
  9. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I did it before my son was 18. I realized that he was going to kill one of us, and teach his siblings that it is OK to abuse women. I did not want him to have to wrestle with guilt over seriously hurting me or hospitalizing me or his sister. It would have destroyed his entire life as he is less willing to forgive himself than he is to forgive us. I had the Sheriff's Deputies take him away in handcuffs for beating me. They tried for over an hour to talk me out of it and I refused to budge. husband came home during it and I told him he could either stay with us and let difficult child go, or go with difficult child. NO ONE was going to teach my daughter that it is ok to abuse women, and NO ONE, not even my child, was going to beat me.

    It was the hardest thing I have ever done. If it ever happens again, I would do it again. We could not afford an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) and I was trying to push the courts into funding one. I spent literally over 100 hours on the phone trying to find someone to help us get a therapeautic placement for him. I finally talked one awesome facility into it when my parents asked to have him stay with them. It was terribly important to my dad to try this before we sent him to "outsiders". Knowing his beliefs about this, and after being worn down by my parents, I agreed. Somehow it has worked. I know not why.

    I DO know that until we refused to let him stay here, NOTHING had really made an impact on his core beliefs about women. He truly did not think I was strong enough, or had the legal right, to insist he not abuse me physically, emotionally or in any other way he wanted to. He honestly believed he had a legal and moral right to act the way he did. Now he has no idea why he ever thought that. He does admit that my mother said things that contributed greatly to it, often whispered to him as he slept. About how she loved him more than anyone else and if the world was "right" he would live with her. That if he was "bad" enough behaved he could come live with her. I didn't know this until very recently, but am not surprised much by it, in light of her other behavior and the mental breakdown that happened a few years back.

    Go to www.aetv.com and watch the full episodes of "Intervention" that are there. Watch them until you realize, deep down, that until you stop supporting her habit she will not EVER get better. You truly are contributing to her DEATH by supporting her. Being homeless is NOT the end of the world. MANY people survive that. It isn't fun, or "nice" but it IS survivable. She will find a drug house to stay in, or someone to take her in. OR she will realize she cannot go on that way and accept treatment - and truly get clean. If you send her to rehab before she hits bottom she will not accept that she needs the help. She won't accept the help until she truly BELIEVES that she has nowhere to go, no way to get better except to get clean.

    PLEASE watch the show, see that other people are doing it. Contact the show if you think it might help you. Or find a therapist to help you work through your feelings and help you toss her out. Because by providing her with a place to stay you are preventing her from hitting bottom. YOU are SUPPORTING her habit as surely as if you put the drugs into her hand. I am sorry. It hurts to know it is true. It is hard to say it.

    You have to do it for more than difficult child's sake. You are TEACHING your other kids that it is OK to do what she does. You are ALLOWING her to abuse them every single day. You are teaching them that they deserve her abuse. That they DESERVE it, that it is OK for someone to ABUSE them. If you cannot make her leave for her own sake, maybe you can do it for theirs. PLEASE find a therapist with experience in addiction to help you help your other children. THEY DESERVE BETTER.
     
  10. Nomad

    Nomad Guest

    This thread breaks my heart.
    We have basically done this...but it is not the same and I 'feel' for those in this position.
    Since our daughter is on disability and we are the designated payees, she has some money. We control it...otherwise it would be long gone. I have a friend who told me of someone with- my daughter's illness who gets her check and spends it on candy and toys and continues to be homeless.

    We take her money and pay rent for low cost housing with- it. However, because of very poor decisions on her part including getting evicted many times, there was a time recently where she had no place to live for a short time and was basically homeless. We still didn't invite her to come back into our home.
    I can say that having her on disability has helped the situation a little. We are doing our very best to keep a roof over her head.
    (Still NOT ideal by ANY means!)
     
  11. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I threw Oldest out at 19. I had wanted her out for weeks, but she refused to leave because she had "nowhere to go." I couldn't "make" her leave without formal eviction proceedings, according to the folks I talked to at the Sheriff's department. Finally one night she blew, threw a chair at me, and I called 911. She was still so out of control when the police got there that she tried to run, and they tackled her and handcuffed her, right there in my laundry room, while she cursed at them. She left escorted by the deputies, with her then-boyfriend (who they'd let her call) and went to live with him and his parents for awhile. Prior to that night, living there had not been an option, but once she was actually "kicked out" of my place, they took her in. I worried for awhile what she had told them about me, what they must think, even knowing *I* was in the right to do what I did, it still bugged the heck out of me. I had to work hard to tell myself that what others thought of my decision didn't matter, especially those that didn't even know the real situation. Interestingly enough, I met her boyfriend's mother a few months later, and she let me know in a roundabout way that she "got it." Turns out the boyfriend's older sister was a lot like Oldest.

    Here we are, seven years later. It's been a rollercoaster. She's had "nowhere to go" several times, even lived in her car for a couple days once when I refused to let her come back. There was one time I *did* let her come back for about a week, about 3 years ago.. a week was all it took, and I told her she had to go. She didn't fight this time. She found somewhere to go, although I don't remember where. She meets new guys/new friends, somehow convinces them to lend her money or let her "stay there" temporarily, or rent a room from them, it lasts a few months, and she's on to the next place.

    I do know there are some kids that need extra help, and the "throwing out" without helping them find a place may not always be an option. I used to think Oldest was one of those, but I don't any more. I think she is firmly entrenched in her borderline thinking, and since she refuses to acknowledge it or ever get help for it, it's not likely to change, maybe ever. I think if I'd enabled her by calling places to see if they'd take her in, etc., it would have only made things worse, and would make her less likely to be self-sufficient. It's a crazy life she lives, not knowing where she's going next, but she manages to figure it out, somehow, so I still consider it "self-sufficient." As I've said in other threads, her behavior hasn't necessarily changed over all, the patterns continue to repeat themselves, but her treatment of me has changed/gotten better. I think with difficult children like mine, once we stand our ground with and take back OUR lives, this can happen, eventually.

    I think you won't know just how capable your difficult child is of taking care of herself, until you let her try.

    Hugs. And more hugs.
     
  12. emotionallybankrupt

    emotionallybankrupt New Member

    Nancy, I've debated about whether I should respond to your post, because it may come in the category of "unsolicited advice" on my part, which I know can be aggravating. On the chance it could be helpful though, I'll just say please forgive me if you didn't want a response.

    I had nearly the same scenario as what you describe, not with difficult child but with my ex. He'd left and then decided he wanted to come back, and he banged and banged on the door just like you describe, refusing to leave. I did call the police and he was escorted away. But guess what? The scenario never repeated. He had thought I would give in that day, but when I did the unexpected, he knew we were on different terms. Yes, it's an ugly scene for sure, but it ended that particular power struggle.

    When difficult child left I put her on notice that I would do exactly the same thing if she came back on the property. She saw me do it with her dad, and so she knows I mean it. I know it sounds really cold, but my intent is to save us from that scene, and I believe that's exactly what I have done.

    It's not that I'm so strong and tough.... At that time, with my ex, I'd retained an excellent lawyer who expected me to follow her directions, and I was more concerned about keeping her as my ally than anything else. I was afraid to make her angry with me because I needed her help so badly. I know in my heart, though, that if I'd ever given in ONE time... he'd just have banged on the door longer the next time. I never would have found my way out of the chaos.

    In a strange sort of way, during the time of those nasty interactions wtih him--and stiff lectures from my attorney on what I HAD to do--I learned some lessons that have helped me greatly in dealing with difficult child. In particular, I learned that what I have to DO has little to do with how I FEEL. The making decisions with my head instead of my heart. Tough.

    I hope you are able to find your way out of the chaos so you won't have to "live your last years like this," as you say. Good luck to you.
     
  13. Star*

    Star* call 911........call 911

    Yes. Details are very ugly, but you can believe me when I say - yes.
     
  14. MrsMcNear50

    MrsMcNear50 New Member

    The last time I let Sweet Betsy stay with me, she informed me that if I wanted her out, I would have to call the police. Fortuneately for her, she found someone to come get her. Now when she calls and asks to stay, I remind her of what happened the last time, and that I will never put myself in that position again.

    She has been homeless, but always comes up with someone who will put her up. She is keenly aware that as long as she continues to live her life in all the unhealty ways, she can never come home. It hurts really bad sometimes, then I remind myself of the living hell she put me thru, and I am ok.

    Good Luck and Blessings,

    Julie
     
  15. Bean

    Bean Member

    Love, love, love this show. I've learned so much from it. Can't say it is the easiest to implement and live it, but gosh it is a good show. You can watch them on HULU too. One day I think I sat on the couch watching episode after episode. Each person I found similarities to my daughter, some more than others. And some were striking. But it made me feel so much less isolated watching those. Recently there was a marathon on TV and I found myself glued to the set.

    I think our next step needs to be drug-testing our daughter. We planned on doing it earlier this week, but got caught up with other things. But to prove to ourselves and her that she IS using (I suspect she's been smoking weed and wouldn't be surprised if there's more) is the first step.

    I can't see us (me) living like this much longer. I've started to take my life back a bit more, and though I feel selfish, I've been a much better mother because of it. Now's not the time to backslide. I have to keep telling myself that.
     
  16. natalieoh

    natalieoh Guest

    On this site we all began as parents wanting children. To be at a point when we are now having to turn them away is so heartbreaking. Yet we HAVE to for our welfare, as well as theirs. This is not easy, and from what I am learning with my difficult child, you manage it one day at a time. To get through this I am finding that I still have to go on with my life, allow myself to have fun, cry, read, be with others. No it isn't easy at all, but maybe it will get easier without them down the road. From what I see with friends in my life and other parents, many are having to take this very difficult step. It isn't what any of us want, but it is what we have to do.
     
  17. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    Hi Everyone,

    Well I have just started reading this forum and this is my first post. The answer is yes we threw our son our 1 month ago. We did not want to go this route at all but we had to. He is 18. He was flagrantly violating the few rules we had including using our car one night without permission. We sat down with him the next day and hoped to tell him he had to follow our rules, we would give him 2 weeks to do it, and if he could not he would have to leave. Well the conversation got difficult fast and he ended up threatening us. At that point it was just clear to me that the message he would get if we let him stay was that he could violate any and all rules we had, and if he didn't like what we said he could threaten us physically to get his way. That was not the life lessons I want him to learn. They were much worse than any message he would get by us kicking him out. So we told him then he had to leave and we gave him 3 hours. He told us he would not go. So yes we did go to the police and had them come and remove him. I don't know what state you are in but are your sure you have to start eviction proceedings? All we had to do was give him a no trespass order which is very simple. I wouldn't think you would have to do eviction proceedings unless she was paying rent.
    So he is staying with a friend. On a therapists advice we did not wait until he contacted us. We tried to keep the door open to him without inviting him back home. So I would text him (we are keeping his phone on) etc. He did not respond for several days and then got into trouble and did call us. I think it was important that we have kept the door open. So our relationship is not very good at the moment, he only contacts us when he wants something, but at least he does contact us. I have since then gotten to know a bit the father of where he is staying and so I feel he is basically safe and getting some support. But when we kicked him out we were not sure he had anywhere to go.
    It was very very hard at first, but it has been better for all of us. I think he is learning some hard lessons and is hopefully starting to sort some thngs out.
    I think sometimes you just have to take the stand that you wont put up with the mistreatment any more. It is better for them as well as you. So the thing to look at is it really helping your daugther to live with you with the way she is behaving. What lessons is she learning by doing that?
     
  18. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Yes, we have done this. And now there is only one bed in our home. M was 17 when he assaulted his father. He was arrested, put on probation, then went to an Residential Treatment Center (RTC) which we paid for. He sold most of the staff on a sob story of abuse and they reported me to the State as an abuser. Guess who had nowhere to go when he got out of the Residential Treatment Center (RTC)? There was a youth program he lived in. He's sponged off of people for years and has his first apartment this summer. Sort of. It's a sub lease. Second month in and he is learning about what happens when you're short on money because the student loan is late and you don't bother to clear it with your landlord. He knows now that you have to be up front with people, and plan ahead when you know that there is a possibility that things may turn south.

    But there is no bed for him here. We helped him out with a tank of gas and $20 to buy a rat to feed the snake he is house sitting. We helped him make calls and make arrangements for some late payments. And we referred him to someone who pays piecemeal for work. We're paying for him to see a doctor so that he can have medications refilled. But it would take a miracle for him to live here again.
     
  19. Bean

    Bean Member

    Welcome to the forum, toughlovin, and thanks for your reply. :)

    I think it is helpful and hurtful. (see below)

    Our daughter's arrest was due to a domestic dispute. She hit her father, not the first time, and the police were called. Because of her age, she was taken to jail. She was living with us at the time. After getting probation, she continued to violate and ended up back in jail a few times, but then also went to treatment, group home, etc. She had a lot of services and basically snowplowed her way through all of them. But, in that time, she turned 18 and during one tx bout, we told her she couldn't come home. That the rest of the family had suffered enough and we couldn't allow our house to have that kind of chaos.

    She went to live with my parents. Not a good idea, honestly, because they are enablers, and because of the stress is places on our relationship. Looking back, I wish my parents would have not let her live there. She was on paper, and her PO would have had to deal with her homelessness. I begged my parents to kick her out and let him come up with a solution, but enablers don't tend to do that.

    A year later, she's back with us. So, when I say "good" I think she has long yearned to live with her brothers and parents, with our family, under better terms. I think it is good for her spirit. But for her growing, I'm not sure. But what is good for HER is not always good for everyone else. And we have more to worry about than just our daughter. If she can't pull it together here, she'll have to leave. And so far it is looking like that. She has 1 more week to make significant strides in changing her behavior. We will see how it goes. My fear is that she will keep bending and bending the rules to the point of running the house.

    Sometimes I feel like I'm always the "heavy" though. Last night she came home at 2am (seemingly sober) and my husband let her in. The rule is 11pm or you find somewhere to stay for the night. I think he shouldn't have answered the door.
     
  20. toughlovin

    toughlovin Guest

    It is so hard.... just as background my son did a wilderness program and then a TBS for 16 months. He did great his first year home and then started to go down hill.... and started using drugs again which just complicates his other issues.

    One thing that was really helpful when we kicked him out was my therapist. My husband and I both went to see her. My initial thinking was we had to think and agree under what conditions we would let him come home. She stopped me right there and said no you should not even think about him coming home. It is not good for him or for you. It is time to find his own way. Think instead about the ways you are willing to help him and ways in which you are not. So we have kept in touch, did not bail him out of jail, did give him a ride to court another time, did bring him his bike and I have agreed to take him shopping for some clothes. However under no circumstances will I give him cash. I would buy him food to eat and possibly groceries. But I had to change my initial thinking which was that he would end up coming home.... but the therapist pointed out we would just end up in the same cycle.... which it sounds like ahs sorted of happened to you.

    And yes it is not just about what is good for her, it is also about what is good for the rest of you. However I don't think it is good for her to live in a place where she gets away with breaking the rules.

    One thing I think about my son, who is ODD, is he has to learn to obey the rules! You can't get along in life if you don't. Hopefully he is starting to learn that as in the last month he has been arrested twice, and will be summonsed on yet another set of charges. In life if you don't obey the rules you get arrested. He has always had to learn things the hard way.

    I do wish I had found this site years ago.... it is wonderful to hear others stories and to know there are people out there who really understand what we are going through. My son has always been difficult and sometimes it was pretty lonely being his mom.
     
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