He called. Mellow conversation, he's staying at school, I am guarded but hopeful

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Signorina, Sep 5, 2011.

  1. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    I guess his dad emailed him last night and asked him to call. And he did, from his girlfriend's phone. We talked for a while. I tried not to lecture him. He kept repeating "I am staying at *university* because it's what's best for my education." I have to chuckle at the implication that we don't want what's best for his education. At one point I even said said as much. (the funny thing is that the sentence doesn't remotely sound like him. I am pretty sure it is coming from his girlfriend's mouth or her parents. Whole other story) He was not argumentative, just mellow, quiet almost monotone. Couldn't read him over the phone. Maybe he was stoned or exhausted or hungover? Probably #1 and/or #3.

    I was able to make the points that I could not in the heated discussion on Monday evening. That we DID compromise. (7 times as a matter of fact.) But that we couldn't continue to allow him to go to *university* knowing that he planned to smoke (A LOT or sell) weed. That even though it's legal in some states, it's illegal in ours and it's a felony if over a certain amount. And that legal doesn't mean safe. And I gave him examples of legal substances that are often misused and abused - alcohol and rx drugs. That we asked him to stay home because we couldn't support his decision to return to school after all the lies he told while knowing he planned to party in his new apartment. He did say that he won't be partying -and that while he won't stay home and study all the time - he will go out on the weekends but he won't be partying all the time. Whatever that means. Basically I think he told me what I wanted to hear which I appreciate but am not putting any stock in it.

    He met with the dean (whom I emailed earlier in the week) and has a plan to get student loans and a job. He meets with the financial aid office tomorrow. I am mentally bracing for him asking for our financial information so he can fill out the FAFSA. We won't give it to him regardless of the fact that he needs it to apply for most loans. I am hoping he is too proud to ask us for it. I reminded him that the repayment will be steep and that it doesn't have to be this way. He claims he needs to do it himself and that he knows he will do well this year (because he is doing it for himself). I responded that we know he is smart and he may think that doing well in school will prove us wrong - but nothing could make us happier. And I reminded him that a big part of our hesitation was that he did so poorly last year. Of course he claims he won't door poorly this year as if we were the cause of his poor performance. I reiterated that we believe in him and his abilities which is why we sent him to *university* in the first place. I wasn't argumentative, just trying to be supportive while making the point that we aren't the villains here.

    I also told him that he could call us anytime. That if anything happened; he should call us first. That we love him and we always will. That it doesn't need to be this way. That our family ISN'T dysfunctional (which he told us on Monday), we just can't support his decision to use drugs while at school! And that if he did really well in his classes, we could reopen the tuition discussion next year. I asked him if he would like his phone (which he left on our doorstep) back he said yes and I will send it tomorrow. Resisted the urge to throw some fast food gift cards in there. While I assume he will get (or has all ready) his own mobile account, I have to pay out the contract on this phone Anyway, I like the vague idea that I *could* get a hold of him if necessary and vice versa.

    Lots of I love you's, which he said as well. Feeling hopeful which I needed. Time will tell. Hopeful but will do my best not to let my guard down. I know he said what he knows I want to hear. I know he is not realizing how hard the road will be and that while he is flush now, it will get tougher as the year goes buy. I am just glad the door (between us) is ajar.
     
  2. MuM_of_OCD_kiddo

    MuM_of_OCD_kiddo New Member

    I am curious - you said that you will not give him the financial information he needs to apply for student loans/fin. aids etc. Is this because it asks for specific account information such as actual account numbers and balances and you are worried he will do some mischief with this info, or is it because you do not support him applying for student loans in general?

    If it is the later and you are not held responsible for the repayment [aka you are not a co-signer or co-owner of the debt], then you are meddling with his ability to get student loans and continue with his education. Whether you agree with the way he is trying to get there or not, he is trying to achieve his own goals, and I think you need to on one side butt out and let him learn for himself how tough it is being grown up and being responsible for ones actions, but on the other hand not throw obstacles in his way of getting there.

    Now if you are concerned about him using your financial information to hurt you or cause financial trouble to you, that is one thing. Or if him using said info to apply for said loans makes you also liable for the repayment of them if he is defaulting on the loans. But refusing the information just to be contrary or to show your disapproval, seems to be a great way or permanently throw a huge monkey wrench into your future relationship with him. Can you elaborate a bit on this so I can better understand?
     
  3. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    I think that refusing to provide into to fill out the FAFSA is NOT to just be contrary or be arbitrary. He has already done very very badly at school while using a LOT of drugs. They offered to support him and pay the full price for a year at a school near them rather than going to the big university where he spent his time and loads and loads of their money partying. They have already told him that in no way will they help support his life at this univ right now - and in my opinion they need to stick to that, INCLUDING not helping with anything that gives him financial support.

    They have to let him hit bottom or fly totally on his own - and even if it means he can't get a student loan, I support them in this. While many student loans are only to be repaid by the student, their son has abused them, their finances and their other kids and it would seem in character that he would forge a signature on a loan that would end up with them either paying it or sending him to prison for the forgery. NOT a position they need to come close to being in. There are a LOT of other students in the party lifestyle who would help him figure out how to forge their signatures if they gave him the FAFSA info.

    As it is, the info about their income is PRIVATE and is NONE OF difficult child"S BUSINESS. He went to the univ this year by himself, got an apartment with-o telling them about it (but was planning to use their money to afford it!) and he knew when he left that they were not going to contribute in any way to his decision to be tehre this year. So not providing financial info may make it hard on him, but it IS the REAL WORLD that he thinks he knows everything about. So they have to let him experience it with-o any cushion from them.
     
  4. susiestar

    susiestar Roll With It

    by the way - just because he says he is just using pot is NO reason to have any faith that he is not using anything else. MOST kids will admit to pot because it doesn't seem as bad, but reality is that many other drugs are likely being used or experimented with. NOt to mention all the drugs, including embalming fluid, that are added to pot before it is smoked.
     
  5. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    All of the above. We are not throwing a monkey wrench in his decision to be a grown up but we will not support his decision to go away to school in ANY WAY when his primary reason for doing so is to use or DEAL substances away from the watchful eye of the campus police. And he doesn't NEED student loans; we have the means to pay his tuition. He had our support both financially and educationally but he threw it away when he choose not to meet the guidelines HE set (3.0, no substances, stay out of trouble) as a condition of a free ride. He could return home, get counseling, get back on track and go to school locally (plenty of very good schools in driving distance including a local campus of his current state uni) with the option of "away" school on the table next year. We had numerous red flags - poor grades, 2 drinking citations, coming home altered, poor attitude, culminating in his rental of an off campus apartment without our knowledge. Let me be clear that we WERE giving him a second chance away at school (even paying his rent) DESPITE all of that until he placed a large order of drug paraphernalia on Monday 8/29. (to be sent to the new apartment). We have every reason to believe he had planned to leave us on the hook for his dorm contract (which he did not cancel) until we intervened.

    He will not qualify for financial aid or subsidized loans even if he completes the FAFSA with our information. But yes, we are uncomfortable with him having all of our financial details including our assets.

    He walked away and has to deal with the consequences. It's not my fault or my concern that the FAFSA requires parental information
     
  6. MuM_of_OCD_kiddo

    MuM_of_OCD_kiddo New Member

    Signorina - I did read your initial post where you explained all that, and I also had the impression that he was getting ready to set up shop to become a dealer, when you mentioned the scale and other supplies he was ordering...

    For laughs though - a few years back when I was still ebaying, I ordered a fineweight scale and several sizes and varieties of wee plastic baggies myself. :916blusher:I wonder what ppl thought about that then - I wasn't even thinking how suspicious that might appear - you so do become warped in your thinking once you spend time with difficult children, sigh. Oh and just in case you're all wondering what the heck I was doing??? Selling heirloom flower and vegetable seeds from my gardens on ebay....:rofl:


    Back to the subject - I was simply asking because I am not familiar with the student loan scenario and info required when it is a young adult; when I applied for my own I was already in my early 20ies and my parents info was not needed. I am also [still] unclear if that makes you as the parent liable for the actual student loan, even if you are not cosigning???

    I have no fault with your reasoning and thinking otherwise, and would feel the same especially if my son would/could/might set up shop to become a drug dealer to finance his endeavors, no matter what they might be. I'd happily turn his a** in myself, as this is something I do not condone at all.
     
  7. Signorina

    Signorina Guest

    FYI - The information he would need to complete the FAFSA (needed by ANY student under the age of 25) is:

    Parent(s)
    • Social Security Number(s)
    • 2010 W-2 (for every job worked during 2010)
    • 2010 Federal Tax Return (1040, 1040A or 1040EZ)
    • Records of additional money earned
    • Untaxed income records (Social Security, TANF, Welfare, Worker's Comp.)
    • Current bank statements for all accounts
    • Current investment records and account statements including IRAs, 529s, SEPs, 401Ks, SIMPLE plans etc

    Both my husband and I are self employed. H owns an S Corp and he and I are the only shareholders. I work for a family business which is technically 3 "S" corporations. As such, we would have to provide detailed financial information about all 4 businesses including the Balance Sheets and tax return information. Honestly, I am not even privy to some of the detailed financials needed from my own family's business! Regardless of our cooperation, he would not qualify for Financial Aid or subsidized loans. (we're not wealthy by any means, barely hanging on in this recession, but we have a lot of assets ON PAPER including difficult child's 529 plan which could be paying for his education. Ironic. We started his 529 to protect his college money from our self employment ups and downs)

    He cannot qualify as an independent student under any interpretation of the guidelines. Wanting to pay your own way so you can use drugs IS NOT a qualifying event (LOL)
    Even if HE were a PCx100, I would have concerns about releasing such detailed information

    Edited - and NO we would not be liable for his loans even if we provided the information. They use it to compute "expected family contribution" which is what would make him ineligible. I am guessing that if he does obtain an unsubsidized loan, he will need a co signer which will not be us or his grandma or uncles.
     
    Lasted edited by : Sep 5, 2011
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