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He Doesn't Have a Clue...
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 298206" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>WSM, I think you missed a golden opportunity. When he said he was going to call CPS to tell them to not talk to you - you should have let him. Downplay it, tell him in desperation, "Oh no, PLEASE don't do that!"</p><p></p><p>Because you're right - any attempt to obviously limit access to CPS by people needing their support and involvement, is clear interference.</p><p></p><p>You know - if H is as bad as this, obviously undermining ANY discipline, ANY instructions and rules (even his own) then it's no wonder difficult child is such a confused mess. It's also no wonder difficult child despises you and obviously disrespects you and anything you try to impose. He can see the chink in H's attitude and is able to easily wedge things in that chink and try to force the crack wider open. Add to this H's immediate attack on you in his attempt to duck out of his own responsibility in the bad behaviour and breaches in the rules that are obviously his own doing.</p><p></p><p>I aalso am concerned that you are allowing H to deflect you form the real issues. You get angry (understandable) and H knows how to push your buttons. When you get angry, you play right into H's hands. Instead, you need to stay calm and stay ON TOPIC. The topic here is - you observed H saying good night and putting difficult child to bed. Then after you have gone, H gets difficult child up and lets him downstairs with the others. So if H is doing nothing wrong, why the charade with difficult child's bedtime? Was that for your benefit? If so, it's an open admission that H knowingly broke the rules you had both agreed on (rules I gather also laid down by CPS?) and did it deceitfully in a way to trick you into beleiving H was doing the right thing.</p><p></p><p>Then he has the hide to blame you? Hey boyo, who was the one pretending here? You wonder why people call you a bad parent? It's because you send mixed messages to everyone around you and especially the kids, who NEED consistency that he is unwilling to provide.</p><p></p><p>Whenever you openly get angry with h, you give him the internal justification to blame you and get away with it (in his own head). You make yourself the bad guy in the dispute and it then perpetuates in this "good cop, bad cop" scenario. Each time your authority gets undermined further. Not only with the kids, but with H himself. He actually believes his own rubbish that he is spouting about you.</p><p></p><p>As for you telling him you're going to file for divorce - I'm sure he's trying to goad you into this and probably knows how you feel about access to stepdaughter. He will use this as currency with you. We already know he will use anything and anybody to get his own way and to win any argument. Who he hurts along the way - it just doesn't come into it. Which then brings us to - who is the sociopath here? The father, or the son? The son has something else wrong here (inconsistency in parenting on top of whatever else, could well be all the poor kid needs to be as unbalanced as he presents.</p><p></p><p>Personally, all you're going to achieve by maknig the announcement you threaten - you are trying to wound him (and maybe in doing so, make him pay attention?)</p><p>You know it won't make him pay attention for long. His capacity for self-denial, for reinventing the truth accordsing to hwat he himself can handle and how much he can get away with, will sooner rather than later overcome any nose-rubbing in the mess that you manage to achieve in the short term. And you will be then have tipped your hand. You can't unring that bell.</p><p>I hope in saying that here, you were just venting and you're not really going to say that. It might feel very satisfying, but I think it would be a huge strageic mistake and would frankly lower you to his appalling standards.</p><p></p><p>But speaking of his ex-wife's divorce lawyers - what do you know of his previous marital problems? I know you've mentioned things about her in the past, but short of me going back and tracking every post of yours, I'm not sure. From my recollection, difficult child's mother is unstable and has chosen to have no contact with the kids (or has had custody of the kids taken away from her).</p><p>But who has told you this? H? Or have you seen evidence for this yourself, independently? Think - what is this man likely to say about you, after you walk out of his life? He HAS to discredit you, in order to forestall the things he KNOWS you must be saying about him (because saying bad things is what HE would do therefore he would be convinced you would be bad-mouthing him everywhere, "telling lies" and he has to counter this with his own version of events, getting in first).</p><p></p><p>He sounds like someone who has to be in control, has to have his hand on the plough (even though he hasn't a clue how to steer). In his mind nobody else is permitted to have this control. Hence he is fighting to prevent difficult child even being put into Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Stepdaughter is not in danger of being taken away (not if she keeps her mouth shut) so he isn't so concerned for her welfare, he's putting his efforts into keeping difficult child at home and safe from the risk of being removed. All his efforts expended there. And again, he's only lurching from crisis to crisis, no long-term planning is possible for him now. Hence his attack on you for telling difficult child's lawyer about previous charges. You did the right thing for difficult child in telling the lawyer, but if you had said nothing, it actually could have sped up difficult child being taken away - it would have come out in court and the lawyer would have had a rude shock and not been as able to defend difficult child.</p><p></p><p>H attacks you for trying to parent his kids. He is told he is a bad parent, so he has to shift that blame onto you and say YOU are the bad parent. But it's YOUR kids he's exposing to difficult child, against all agreements and orders. Whose decision is that? He gets upset with you even suggesting anything concerning difficult child, but he is making decisions on behalf of your kids (getting difficult child up to play with them in the living room after you've gone out), and getting angry with you when you call him on it.</p><p></p><p>Some suggestions - where your own kids' welfare is concerned, stand your ground. But where difficult child is concerned, let H make his decisions as long as they don't impact anyone else but H. That is important - NOBODY else but H to be impacted by H's decisions/supervision of difficult child. So the surveillance must remain and be adhered to, because YOU need to know you are safe, you need YOUR KIDS to know they are safe. CPS is involved because there are other kids who need to be protected from difficult child. It's nothing to do with H's parenting here. This is between you and CPS on behalf of your kids.</p><p></p><p>It will mean you having to choose your battles with H/ Don't have a go at him for inconcistency with difficult child or for the mixed messages with difficult child. But yes, for the mixed messages it sends to your kids, about keeping one's word and about clear deception of you by him, in their presence. ASnd what</p><p>s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander - tell your kids, in H's presence, that what he did was wrong and they must feel free to tell you any time H does this again. After all, H is sending these same messages about you to HIS kids.</p><p></p><p>But let H take full responsibility now for difficult child. Next time you're in court and information doesn't get divulged by H - say nothing. It WILL come back to bite him, hard. And he will have nobody to blame, because he has told you to keep your mouth shut. You can be sure that difficult child's previous record will be laid on the table by the prosecuting police. If difficult child's lawyer gets caught unawares because H 'forgets' to tell her, then H will be in the poo. difficult child is MORE likely to be taken away and it's getting to the stage where even a custodial sentence will be preferable to difficult child being left at home with H. Of course it won't be good for difficult child. But as things are, difficult child has zero chance of helpful, effective, consistent intervention. At least in the system he has at least a 5&#37; chance of intervention!</p><p></p><p>You need counselling for yourself, to help you cope. You risk becoming caught in the emotional whirlwind of manipulation and getting hooked into H's mind games and psychodrama. He attacks you, you defend yourself (and attack back) and nothing positive is achieved by anybody, for anybody. By allowing him to hook you in, you lose ground.</p><p></p><p>You need to get some help for yourself (and maybe for stepdaughter, if you can arrange it and slip below H's radar). </p><p></p><p>This is nasty, for everyone. H and difficult child are, I feel, beyond the ability for you to help or intervene now. So stay out. Let them wallow in their increasingly ugly mess. Salvage what can be salvaged while you are still in a position to do something sueful.</p><p></p><p>And give some consideration to the possibility that whatever you've been told about difficult child's mother is perhaps sadly twisted, at the very least. Maybe if you could talk to her (or find someone who knows the past history to talk to you about it) then you might have an even clearer perspective (which then helps you in knowing how to save yourself from a similar slandered fate).</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 298206, member: 1991"] WSM, I think you missed a golden opportunity. When he said he was going to call CPS to tell them to not talk to you - you should have let him. Downplay it, tell him in desperation, "Oh no, PLEASE don't do that!" Because you're right - any attempt to obviously limit access to CPS by people needing their support and involvement, is clear interference. You know - if H is as bad as this, obviously undermining ANY discipline, ANY instructions and rules (even his own) then it's no wonder difficult child is such a confused mess. It's also no wonder difficult child despises you and obviously disrespects you and anything you try to impose. He can see the chink in H's attitude and is able to easily wedge things in that chink and try to force the crack wider open. Add to this H's immediate attack on you in his attempt to duck out of his own responsibility in the bad behaviour and breaches in the rules that are obviously his own doing. I aalso am concerned that you are allowing H to deflect you form the real issues. You get angry (understandable) and H knows how to push your buttons. When you get angry, you play right into H's hands. Instead, you need to stay calm and stay ON TOPIC. The topic here is - you observed H saying good night and putting difficult child to bed. Then after you have gone, H gets difficult child up and lets him downstairs with the others. So if H is doing nothing wrong, why the charade with difficult child's bedtime? Was that for your benefit? If so, it's an open admission that H knowingly broke the rules you had both agreed on (rules I gather also laid down by CPS?) and did it deceitfully in a way to trick you into beleiving H was doing the right thing. Then he has the hide to blame you? Hey boyo, who was the one pretending here? You wonder why people call you a bad parent? It's because you send mixed messages to everyone around you and especially the kids, who NEED consistency that he is unwilling to provide. Whenever you openly get angry with h, you give him the internal justification to blame you and get away with it (in his own head). You make yourself the bad guy in the dispute and it then perpetuates in this "good cop, bad cop" scenario. Each time your authority gets undermined further. Not only with the kids, but with H himself. He actually believes his own rubbish that he is spouting about you. As for you telling him you're going to file for divorce - I'm sure he's trying to goad you into this and probably knows how you feel about access to stepdaughter. He will use this as currency with you. We already know he will use anything and anybody to get his own way and to win any argument. Who he hurts along the way - it just doesn't come into it. Which then brings us to - who is the sociopath here? The father, or the son? The son has something else wrong here (inconsistency in parenting on top of whatever else, could well be all the poor kid needs to be as unbalanced as he presents. Personally, all you're going to achieve by maknig the announcement you threaten - you are trying to wound him (and maybe in doing so, make him pay attention?) You know it won't make him pay attention for long. His capacity for self-denial, for reinventing the truth accordsing to hwat he himself can handle and how much he can get away with, will sooner rather than later overcome any nose-rubbing in the mess that you manage to achieve in the short term. And you will be then have tipped your hand. You can't unring that bell. I hope in saying that here, you were just venting and you're not really going to say that. It might feel very satisfying, but I think it would be a huge strageic mistake and would frankly lower you to his appalling standards. But speaking of his ex-wife's divorce lawyers - what do you know of his previous marital problems? I know you've mentioned things about her in the past, but short of me going back and tracking every post of yours, I'm not sure. From my recollection, difficult child's mother is unstable and has chosen to have no contact with the kids (or has had custody of the kids taken away from her). But who has told you this? H? Or have you seen evidence for this yourself, independently? Think - what is this man likely to say about you, after you walk out of his life? He HAS to discredit you, in order to forestall the things he KNOWS you must be saying about him (because saying bad things is what HE would do therefore he would be convinced you would be bad-mouthing him everywhere, "telling lies" and he has to counter this with his own version of events, getting in first). He sounds like someone who has to be in control, has to have his hand on the plough (even though he hasn't a clue how to steer). In his mind nobody else is permitted to have this control. Hence he is fighting to prevent difficult child even being put into Residential Treatment Center (RTC). Stepdaughter is not in danger of being taken away (not if she keeps her mouth shut) so he isn't so concerned for her welfare, he's putting his efforts into keeping difficult child at home and safe from the risk of being removed. All his efforts expended there. And again, he's only lurching from crisis to crisis, no long-term planning is possible for him now. Hence his attack on you for telling difficult child's lawyer about previous charges. You did the right thing for difficult child in telling the lawyer, but if you had said nothing, it actually could have sped up difficult child being taken away - it would have come out in court and the lawyer would have had a rude shock and not been as able to defend difficult child. H attacks you for trying to parent his kids. He is told he is a bad parent, so he has to shift that blame onto you and say YOU are the bad parent. But it's YOUR kids he's exposing to difficult child, against all agreements and orders. Whose decision is that? He gets upset with you even suggesting anything concerning difficult child, but he is making decisions on behalf of your kids (getting difficult child up to play with them in the living room after you've gone out), and getting angry with you when you call him on it. Some suggestions - where your own kids' welfare is concerned, stand your ground. But where difficult child is concerned, let H make his decisions as long as they don't impact anyone else but H. That is important - NOBODY else but H to be impacted by H's decisions/supervision of difficult child. So the surveillance must remain and be adhered to, because YOU need to know you are safe, you need YOUR KIDS to know they are safe. CPS is involved because there are other kids who need to be protected from difficult child. It's nothing to do with H's parenting here. This is between you and CPS on behalf of your kids. It will mean you having to choose your battles with H/ Don't have a go at him for inconcistency with difficult child or for the mixed messages with difficult child. But yes, for the mixed messages it sends to your kids, about keeping one's word and about clear deception of you by him, in their presence. ASnd what s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander - tell your kids, in H's presence, that what he did was wrong and they must feel free to tell you any time H does this again. After all, H is sending these same messages about you to HIS kids. But let H take full responsibility now for difficult child. Next time you're in court and information doesn't get divulged by H - say nothing. It WILL come back to bite him, hard. And he will have nobody to blame, because he has told you to keep your mouth shut. You can be sure that difficult child's previous record will be laid on the table by the prosecuting police. If difficult child's lawyer gets caught unawares because H 'forgets' to tell her, then H will be in the poo. difficult child is MORE likely to be taken away and it's getting to the stage where even a custodial sentence will be preferable to difficult child being left at home with H. Of course it won't be good for difficult child. But as things are, difficult child has zero chance of helpful, effective, consistent intervention. At least in the system he has at least a 5% chance of intervention! You need counselling for yourself, to help you cope. You risk becoming caught in the emotional whirlwind of manipulation and getting hooked into H's mind games and psychodrama. He attacks you, you defend yourself (and attack back) and nothing positive is achieved by anybody, for anybody. By allowing him to hook you in, you lose ground. You need to get some help for yourself (and maybe for stepdaughter, if you can arrange it and slip below H's radar). This is nasty, for everyone. H and difficult child are, I feel, beyond the ability for you to help or intervene now. So stay out. Let them wallow in their increasingly ugly mess. Salvage what can be salvaged while you are still in a position to do something sueful. And give some consideration to the possibility that whatever you've been told about difficult child's mother is perhaps sadly twisted, at the very least. Maybe if you could talk to her (or find someone who knows the past history to talk to you about it) then you might have an even clearer perspective (which then helps you in knowing how to save yourself from a similar slandered fate). Marg [/QUOTE]
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