He just argues and argues

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by TerryJ2, Dec 2, 2010.

  1. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    OMG, I am so sick of it. Doesn't matter how many books I've read and how much counseling we've been through. It seems like nothing changes. He's just got that huge sense of entitlement.
    He's been lagging and dragging all wk, finding all sorts of things to eat that make him sick, then staying up half the night, even though we've increased his Clonidine to 1 tab at 5:30, and 2 tabs at 9 p.m. He wakes up in the middle of the night and eats and plays on some equipment (just when we think it's all locked up, he'll find something else) or reads. Then he can't get out of bed in the a.m.
    He insists he has leftover time to watch a video (he's only got 1 hr a day) and I told him no electronics when you're sick. Argue, argue, argue, he won't give me the DVD player, which he swiped from our bedroom after I couldn't find it.
    I've had sciatica for a mo and have been in bed more often than not (I rearranged my monitor and keyboard so I can stand/crouch and type) and it is so hard to deal with-him when I'm in pain and out of sorts.
    He lied about an English paper--a one page essay and What I'm thankful For--lied to my face and told me he was thankful for being adopted, then watched me type an email to the teacher, telling her exactly where he put it, in a basket behind her desk to the left, and she emailed back, no, it's not there and it's not done.
    And this is the NICE teacher--sweet, young, nice nice nice.
    I made him write a graf, then scanned it and emailed it, since he's home "sick." She emailed back that she would accept it, even though it was one graf and was supposed to be a page.
    The math teacher gave him a D, Soc Stud an F but changed it to a B for a late paper, and the English teacher an F.
    Excuses, excuses excuses.
    I am calling for a mtng to review the 504. He is taking us all for a ride.

    I have totally lowered my expectations, but then it seems he lowers his as well. Somehow he senses it because I'm not on his case as much. So I don't think that's the right approach.
    Thanks for "listening."
  2. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member


    I know how wearing that constant arguing can be (especially when you aren't feeling well). The no sleep thing is so concerning. difficult child's psychiatrist really believes it is super important that he sleep through the night but that is because of his bipolar.
  3. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Yes, bipolar and Aspie kids and adult have to sleep through the night. Sleep is important for everyone, but doubly so for people with-chemical imbalances or neurological issues. Thanks for listening.
  4. Jena

    Jena New Member

    terry sorry it 's so hard the sleep thing we go thru it here every single night she's up till 4 a.m. during day shes' rough. its' same exact thing that you are going thru. i think also their hormones are kicking in as well which makes them even more difficult.

    (((Hugs)) i feel for you bigtime! it sucks. no other word for it.
  5. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you. He's going to school today. Yaay!
    It's so weird, that he can argue even when I only give him a flat statement. He'd argue into thin air. In fact, I think he does ...
  6. DaisyFace

    DaisyFace Love me...Love me not


    ((((Hugs)))) for you....

    and I'd like to offer you a smack upside the head to use on difficult child - but we'd probably get in trouble.

    I wonder why he does not feel more motivated to eat correctly? He knows the wrong foods make him feel bad - you'd think that would be enough incentive to stick to his diet.

    I'm sorry...
  7. SRL

    SRL Active Member

    Terry, if you just posted today to vent and find understanding ears, then I want to say :sorrysmiley: and you should stop reading here.

    If you are serious about wanting to break out of this, then read on.

    in my opinion, you seriously need to take Fran's advice to heart "If you keep on doing what you're doing, you'll keep getting what you got."

    I know it's been suggested to you many times to go beyond counseling and books and look into some sort of residential treatment. I don't get a chance to read all of your posts so I might have missed it if you followed through, but have you done any serious looking and inquiring about insurance, etc? My concern for HIM is that the more engrained the behaviors, the harder they are to change and books, counseling, and medications don't seem to be making much difference. He's 13 now and as a mother of high schoolers I can tell you with certainty that 18 is right around the corner.

    My concern for YOU is that it takes an incredible emotional and physical toll on a mother to go on year after year without seeing forward results. Soemtimes there's a tendency to "get stuck" when you have a kid who isn't responsive to treatment and think you've done all that you can, when in reality you've done all you can within the parameters you've chosen and/or have available to you (ie nearby counselors, in-home vs. residential, preferred school district, etc.). If you've done everything you possibly can for him under your roof and he still isn't budging, then you probably need to look outside those parameters if you have any hope of making a difference in the five years you legally have left to influence the outcome.
  8. Bunny

    Bunny Guest

    I'm sorry difficult child is being like this. My son does this, too, and it's exhausting. There are days when I want to say "Just shut the f up because you are not going to get your way."

    Why does he eat things that he knows will make him sick? Is he doing it for the attention and sympathy, or is he trying to be hurtful to you?

  9. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    I understand. We just went through a terrible week after my daughter, A, cheated on her diet, too. There is no reasoning with her when that happens and she will take a consequence she doesn't like, just to show us we can't control her. Luckily, she stays in her room for the most part when it happens, but it still casts a depressing atmosphere over the whole house. It lasted a full week from whatever she ate at a party. She left as a easy child/typical teen and came back as a difficult child.

    Any way you can totally remove access to those foods? While you shouldn't have to, sometimes that is what is needed. Maybe you can take advantage of the upcoming school break to keep him under strict supervision without access to any foods he shouldn't have. Also, do some research at www.celiac.com to make sure he isn't eating something regularly that you think is ok that really isn't. I had to ban Frito Lay products even, for example, because they are made on the same line as wheat products. Eating those on a vacation totally ruined a trip we took.

    I try to make my daughter's life as miserable as I can if she cheats so she won't be as tempted the next time. I only know she cheats when her behaviour is over the top, so I really punish the behaviour, not the cheating. For the most part, she is compliant, but we do have the occasional trouble.

    Early in my girlfriend days, I mistakenly bought some cookies that had traces of wheat in them. There was nothing special about them, but for some reason, I just ate those cookies uncontrollably. All 3 of us that were girlfriend at the time, had issues from eating those cookies. Honestly, I think for those of us with gluten issues, there might be a craving issue when we get it. If you can just get him away from it for a while, he might be less likely to crave it. And, provide him with his own treats that he can have instead. (Most of the store-bought ones are not good.)

    If you can just find a way to get him to stay with it, I think you could be surprised by the changes that can happen. I know he is at a difficult age to get him to agree, but maybe some serious consequences would gain more compliance.
  10. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    wm does this all the time ... he can create an argument out of a perfectly innocuous comment like "have a good evening". It gets old fast.

    I agree with SRL about looking into residential ~ this has been an ongoing (years) issue & as he gets older it will not get any better. There are too many emotional ties to teach your difficult child the skills he needs. Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is very objective in it's treatment plan & responses to a difficult children arguments, outbursts, rages, meltdowns, aggressiveness, etc.

    You know that wm can no longer live here because of his continuing negative behaviors that created a very unsafe environment. Was it easy - heck no. However, it was the right decision.

    Sending you very gentle, understanding hugs.
  11. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you all.

    I didn't know that about FritoLay products.

    I have no idea why he doesn't care about his body, except that his impulses are way stronger than his self-policing abilities.
    Some days he's really good about saying "No" to things he's allergic to, and other days he dives right in.

    There is a place in the mtns in N Carolina where we could send him, but we'd have to win the lottery. Frankly, that is my dream. I know that he even did very well at summer camp. He gets extremely homesick, but he survives.

    I'll Google "residential treatment" and see if there's anything else out there ...
  12. klmno

    klmno Active Member

    Terry, I apologize for being so late to this. I agree with SRL, too, especially with the hindsight I have regarding my son. There were two Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s in Va that were recommended to me when I was trying to get difficult child into one. One of them was very highly recommended for kids who had not been in deep legal trouble yet or committed any sort of violence (they have a better school, open campus environment, and don't accept kids with violent histories). Both are psychiatric Residential Treatment Center (RTC)'s meaning they focus more on therapy than the typical ones that only focus on behavior modification thru rewards/consequences, although they do use that, too. Let me know if you'd like for me to PM you the name(s).
  13. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    I think it is hard for them to be around all that food that they can't have. Really, almost everything everyone eats has milk or wheat in it. It is just hard being the odd one out all the time, probably.

    I don't know about your son, but my daughter's natural consequence of eating that food is that she finds everyone else very annoying and then reverts back to her ODD ways. To her, though, everyone is just annoying and if we would just be more reasonable, she wouldn't get so angry. Faced with a tempting situation, she probably vows to control herself better this time, but it doesn't always work out that way. So I think I understand why it happens.

    The effects of it last a week for her and longer than that for me. So even an occasional cheat can undermine the whole thing.

    I only wish I knew how to stop them from giving in.
  14. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Me, too! I think it has to be a consequence totally out of proportion to the deed. That's what works for our difficult child. Go figure.
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    As the years go by, there is no way to keep anyone completely away from so many foods. Even adult diabetics who know the consequences of eating sugar cheat.

    I would think maybe about a boarding school for kids who have problems. An Residential Treatment Center (RTC) is a rough place to be and behavior modification doesn't work well with differently wired kids. I would personally only want my child there if he were a serious threat to the safety of others. A boarding school in my opinion may be a better option. Do you feel it's so bad that he needs to be sent away? If so, research everything carefully and be sure to visit. I had foster kids in RTCs that literally made ms sick. They are not all that good...so choose carefully.

    Sending good wishes and hugs.
  16. Josie

    Josie Active Member

    I have been on the same diet for almost 5 years and it is possible to avoid all of those foods. It is getting easier all the time, even.

    I am careful to only eat at restaurants that I trust. Restaurants that cook from scratch know what is in their food and are usually able to come up with something. If I am in a place where I don't trust the food, I have a drink instead. It might look like I have an eating disorder, but I do not care. I do not like the way I used to feel when I ate gluten and it is worth it to me to avoid it. I have accidentally had some gluten from eating in a restaurant twice in the last 4 years, but I never, never willingly cheat. I don't expect people to accommodate me or my daughters, but I am surprised by how many people do. It is not even a social death sentence.

    I agree that if I had true celiac disease and thought my only consequence was intestinal damage that I didn't notice, I might be tempted to cheat.

    I've been working on making my daughter's consequences so miserable for her that she isn't tempted, either.
  17. barneysmom

    barneysmom Member

    Terry I don't have any advice but I am in exactly the same boat with gfg13 (except for the food thing, even though he probably should be gluten-free). I am so worn out -- was in tears today and feeling very run-down. husband is out of town for two weeks.

    I could go on and on but you already posted what's going on with us -- lying, D's and F's, etc.

    We meet with home-based therapist tomorrow and I'm going to ask her if 13 can go to respite (I already left her a message tonight). It's hard to live with someone who's so anti-social, anti-family even.We (everyone on our team) are all wondering how much 13 had to do with 17's psychosis. 17 would always say "You didn't protect me from 13" and we all thought he was being paranoid.

    Anyway, sorry for contributing my own gloom -- just commiserating I guess. Hang in there, girlie-girl. I'll think of you and try to keep my head up. You too.

  18. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you all.

    Do you feel it's so bad that he needs to be sent away? If so, research everything carefully and be sure to visit.

    I don't know that "it's so bad," except that we have done everything we can do and seem to still operate the same routine. I think we've outlived our usefulness as parents, we're not as consistent as we could be, and we have a hard time thinking outside the box. I think professionals can help, and I have seen difficult child flourish in a 6-wk summer camp in the mtns, (when he got home, he was an angel, and begged, "Please don't send me anywhere for that long again." And we have seen him do very well in a psychiatric hospital setting. Routine, routine, routine. And, not a lot of stress. Homework to difficult child is stress, unless it's broken up into pieces and he's in the company of a cpl other people, at least one being a peer. I have tried to create that scenario at home, or at the library with-tutors, but it only lasts a short time and he starts acting up with-the tutor. One tutor (the one from Zimbabwe) lasted over a yr. But even he gave up and difficult child refused to give up.

    Anyway, I think that the proper setting would ensure difficult child would grow and learn. I have already ruled out 2 places in VA and narrowed it down to 2 or 3, and plan to spend a long time mulling it over.
  19. timer lady

    timer lady Queen of Hearts

    Terry, I'm in the same position as you with wm & to a lesser extent with kt ~ the feeling that as their mother I've outlived my usefulness. I hate the routine & continuing lack of progress that haunts my son especially.

    kt is at that typical teen I disagree with everything Mom says because I will never be like her in my life stage (magnified 100 fold due to her issues).

    I'm sorry ~ this entire process wears a person down to the bone. I hope you find some relief for difficult child.
  20. TerryJ2

    TerryJ2 Well-Known Member

    Thank you.
    difficult child was really #^&^##@@ today. Scowl from head to toe.
    Last night he was so rude, husband was considering taking away the birthday dinner we're having for him Fri.

    difficult child talked to me after husband went to a dinner mtng, and told me he was upset because his bmom may not come to his birthday dinner and because he doesn't see why he's grounded off of all electronics.
    We've gone over and over the grounding, and I've come to the realization that he is mad and that arguing is his way of showing how mad he is.
    In reg to bmom, he said he was blaming me because he's mad a bmom, and while that may be true, I told him that he is alienating me, and that if he keeps it up, he will have no one.
    Then I called bmom to see if her mom had given her the msg that I called the other day, and to find out if she and her son (difficult child's 1/2 bro) were going to be at dinner. She wasn't sure and hadn't bothered to check anything yet.
    She's a flake and difficult child is figuring it out. So I take the blame. Same a usual. It's raining? Mom's fault. You broke into Mom's ofc and stole Quaker peanut butter bars and used her computer? Mom's fault because she took away the other computer and tries to keep a strict gluten free diet.

    And I've still got sciatica, am allergic to the muscle relaxant (I itch like crazy and have a headache), and there was a huge beetle in the bathroom sink and it just ran and hid in the overflow drain.

    Life's a b*tch, then you die.