Hello, new here

[Justmegirl]

Hello. I just found this forum, have just barely poked around, but feel like I can relate to some of the things I am reading already, and am hoping to find support/advice, etc.

I am the mom to 2 boys, currently 6 and 3.5 years. I was searching the web for help after my 3.5 year old's behavior finally got them kicked out of our current in-home daycare last Friday. I have joked for awhile that he was going to get them kicked out, but it's saddening and shocking and hard to swallow that it actually happened.

A little about C. He has always been a more 'difficult' child. We have always thought part of the reason we find C difficult is that our first son is so easy, mellow, content, obedient, etc. and we just got spoiled He has just always been a handful since he was born. More crabby, less easy to keep content. As he got older, he is very strong willed, independent (when he wants to be, absolutely stubborn in his will to NOT do things for himself when he DOESN'T want to), and even naughty. The first of the real issues at daycare began about 1.5 years ago, around the age of two, when he started biting. His biting would sometimes be obviously for a specific purpose - another child had a toy he wanted - but at other times, he would just walk over to another who was minding their own business and bite them for seemingly no reason. We had some small issues with him trying to bite a bit at home, but most of the troubles were at Difficult Child.

He has gotten better with the biting, although last Thursday, the FINAL STRAW day, he did bite another child and leave a mark, but it had been quite awhile since he had bit someone (probably 5 months?). After the biting, as he got older, he has become more aggressive to other kids; things like pushing, poking, wrestling, etc. Again, sometimes the behaviors seem to be done in the context of getting something he wants, but as often seem to be done for no reason at all.

(He speaks fine, he is at least on track for his age, and better than some other kids his age in the language dept, so I don't think that's it's that he doesn't have the words to express what he is feeling, but he may not totally understand WHAT he is feeling...does that make sense?)

(sorry I am going a bit all over the place, just trying to put down as much as I can remember and think of about him)

When he was younger, before he did have the language to express himself (so around a year and up) we noticed that he would get aggressive when he gets excited. FOr example: we would be playing around, tickling, having fun, and he would be fine one minute, but as he got more excited, it was like he couldn't control himself, and next thing you know he would be pinching you or grabbing at your face. It didn't seem like he was trying to hurt you, it was like he got so excited and got all this energy built up, and then POW, he had to release it, and pinching or grabbing was how he released it. We would have to hug him (restrain his arms with a hug) and talk to him and tell him to calm down.

As he has gotten older, that still seems to somewhat be the case. He and his brother like to wrestle, or play the 'fighting game' as they call it (and although I don't condone fighting, they aren't really fighting; they like to chase each other, and then they catch each other and do a little wrestling...maybe we shouldn't let them, but from my experience, it's how boys like to play sometimes). The problem is, he always ends up taking it into pinching or grabbing or hitting, etc. (Which, is that TOTALLY abnormal for a little guy?? I guess I don't think so. It's not how our OTHER son is, but just because he isn't our other son, doesn't mean he is abnormal...)

The issues at daycare as of late are: he likes to pretend his hands are 'guns' and pretend he is a transformer, or pretend he is spiderman and shoot webs out of his hands. Difficult Child provider doesn't like that. We have stopped letting him watch transformers and Spiderman, or any show which shows any kind of fighting or aggression, as he obviously likes to be physical and aggressive, and might be getting the idea from the shows that the 'good guys' WIN by beating up the bad guys. He is still doing the pushing, and last Thursday he kicked a smaller kid and the smaller kid fell down. Last week he pushed a smaller kid, and the kid almost hit his head on the door frame. He could have been hurt badly, I agree. When she is disciplining him, he has been putting his hands over his ears and saying he isn't listening. He has been getting out of timeouts (which he does at home, too. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes we have to spend about 5 minutes doing the supernanny thing of putting him continuously back in time out until he realizes we aren't giving in, and then he does, and sits there and cries and takes his timeout).

So, I gotta wrap it up for now. I guess if I am honest with myself, and get past the - whatever the feelings I am feeling in regard to being told that my Difficult Child provider thinks our 3.5 year old is INTENTIONALLY trying to hurt the other children and that his behavior is abnormal and he should see a doctor (sadness, confusion, DENIAL, fear), that SOME of his behaviors over the years seem a bit different, but I am not sure exactly what is going on.

Oh, he has been on track with developmental milestones as far as I know through his life. He knows his colors, numbers, letters mostly, is writing his name, speech is good, he is sweet and snuggly when he wants to be, he plays with others, he does imaginitive play by himself, he makes eye contact...

I don't know exactly what I am looking for, probably ideas on if we should just make the daycare change and see if it changes his behavior and wait on any evaluation, or if we should be getting him evaluated now. We do plan on getting the boys into the school systems preschool/child age care program by the fall school year (they are full up right now) because I know the school district will have some resources to help us determine if there ARE issues that should be addressed, and to help us if there are...

Thanks for listening!!

 

[buddy]

Hi. I can very much relate to this. My son is still this way as a teenager!. From two on he couldn't be allowed to play any game that would get ramped up. No chase games even. He has never been allowed until recently to even watch Disney movies where there could be fighting.

Once incident when he was doing much better playing with others...and among a group of kids who really wanted to play with him and help, they did a tackle tag game. I warned them that it had to just be touch. But they got into it and eventually my son was beating the **** out of an older girl. Everyone got mad at him though I had warned him, he was so upset and saying sorry and ran into the little patch of woods near our pool. It was sad and maddening at the same time. THe kids finally went in themselves and said they understood and it was ok. I was lucky the girl's brother had autism and the younger two siblings also had serious mental health issues so she was really compassionate.

He can now play catch and such but has always had "adpative phy ed" in the schools ....nearly always one on one because not being able to play with other kids without getting carried away.

Much of this is sensory related. Have you ever had a sensory integration evaluation with occupational therapy? They can help him regulate his body if it is related to his needing to feel things more deeply and touch things iwth his mouth and hands etc.

He may have some autism spectrum issues even if he does not meet full criteria (it is a line in the sand, not all kids have the same and as time goes on you may see it impact him more). Many kids on the spectrum can do imaginative play but it is more like your son is doing.... (I taught in many autism classes and my son is on the spectrum....but of course I do not see your son so this is not any attempt to say this is his issue, okay?) Kids who are "higher functioning" on the spectrum often have good eye contact and can be very cuddly but as you said...ON THEIR TERMS. Their imaginative play is more imitative of what they see. Acting out scenarios and being fixated on higher interest things like super heros or trains or planets or whatever. When in structured settings they tend to do a little better because they are being guided through each step of an activity. So maybe a structured kind of daycare could be a support for him. You can have him evaluated through your early childhood school program and maybe get a placement all for free.

But still, the best bet would be to also do an independent evaluation both in terms of occupational therapy and maybe even with a speech language pathologist.....not because his speech/language is behind articulation or grammar wise but because you said he might not have the social language such as how to express himself and they can help evaluate his level of conversational skills. This takes a very experienced person so ask at any clinic you contact for someone who works with kids who have pragmatic language issues at preschool ages.

The results of these evaluations can help with a bigger evaluation called a neuropsychology evaluation. A neuropsychologist can help look at his whole history and development and behaviors and see if there is a possible over riding issue....or even smaller issues that add up to a problem. Their job looks at both developmental/neurobiological conditions and mental health conditions.

The trap these little guys get pushed into is being labeled as behavior problems when there may be a true reason that they just dont process the world as other people do. If we can get into their heads and figure out what skills they need to be successful it is a very different approach from sticker charts for good behavior that people assume they know but are choosing not to use. HUGE difference if you have to TEACH the behavior and reward small steps on the road. If he is differently wired that way, then sticker charts etc. can be a miserable confirmation to them of being "bad".

Glad you found us. I saw you posted on an old thread. If you dont see that a person has posted for a long time AND is not around here your post could get lost in the shuffle . so, it was great that you decided to post your own intro. WELCOME! Very glad to have you...... many many many of us have walked your road!

 

[BusynMember]

I do think you should have your son evaluated. That isn't normal behavior (raised five kids to teens so far). I would take him to a neuropsychologist. I have no idea what is wrong with him, but I doubt a different childcare will help. No childcare person wants her charges to get hurt. It does seem that your child is too aggressive. My guess is he is wired differently and will take a different sort of parenting to help him, but you're going to need help with it. This isn't something you can handle alone. Hugs and good luck.