Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New profile posts
Latest activity
Internet Search
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
Help! 5 yr old irritable dafiant, hates clothes
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 76671" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>I'm not surprised at those numbers. Do talk it over with the experts - you sound like you intend to.</p><p></p><p>Also, if you get a pessimistic prognosis, don't be depressed by it. We were told difficult child 3 would never be able to attend a normal school, could never live independently, would always need a great deal done for him.</p><p></p><p>I remember a lot of the discussion about savants back then - the main belief system (still being challenged) was that savant skills in autistics were NOT indicative of any real ability or intelligence - these skills were considered to be like a parrot trained to talk. It can use the words but has no concept of meaning or anything abstract. difficult child 3 was almost part of research into that, back when he was 4 or 5. We made contact too late but we were given details and they were hopeful.</p><p></p><p>A TV program last night was dealing with a mother raising her (now adult) autistic, epileptic, brain-damaged son. At one point while detailing just how much work he was even as they tried to teach him as much life skills as he could learn, she said she was told, "Just enjoy him."</p><p>At first she was incensed, flabbergasted. And then she thought about it - there is a lot to love about him - he is loving, honest, curious, he is a happy soul. And if you start from there, it does make it easier.</p><p></p><p>I've read a lot and now my boys (and middle daughter) are older, we've learnt a lot. Often, we've learnt it by doing the wrong thing and working out afterwards how we SHOULD have done it. There is a 10 year age difference between the boys, so we've had time to learn and apply our new lessons to difficult child 3, even as we try to fix what we did wrong for difficult child 1.</p><p></p><p>But the most important thing - you meet the child where he/she is. Do what they do, sit with them and imitate them, play alongside rather than with, if necessary. If your child is very bright (and you will sense it at some level) then be very careful - they are VERY sensitive to being patronised and will quickly reject you and what you are doing, if they feel patronised. They have a strong sense of honour, decency and justice (on their own terms, first and foremost) which in time you can bring to a recognition of what society sets store by. But you will clash if you try to cross them in this. You can lead, you can support, but you cannot obstruct or block these kids without a huge battle which, in most cases, you would lose. If not in the short term, then in the long term. And such battles are not healthy for them, even if you feel you are doing the right thing in making them toe the line.</p><p></p><p>This is why schools so often clash and cause problems with these kids - some teachers insist on absolute authority, when in the mind of children like these, such teachers have not earned it, or there is no logical reason. Sarcasm is to be avoided - it is confusing and they feel like you are making fun at their expense - degrading, which jars their basic sense of what is right and decent. You can best teach these children by your own example, and by gentle, clear, concise direction (when they are able to handle it). Treat them with respect, in order to teach respect. Do not raise your voice - it often causes physical pain. Do not force physical contact - ditto. </p><p></p><p>mother in law reached difficult child 3 by repeatedly saying to him at every opportunity, "I love you." As a result, SHE was the first one he said, "I love you," to in reply. And I was not resentful - she had earned the right. But one day difficult child 3 came to me where I was sitting, put his head on my leg and said, "I love you, Mummy." I remember thinking, "Maybe he even has some glimmering of what it means - he is trying to do the normal thing, he's seen his sister, he's seen his father."</p><p>We ask difficult child 3 for a hug, before we force one on him. He will generally oblige. And now, he will voluntarily kiss me to indicate he is happy, or is trying to thank me. But he seems to feel that the more he wants to show his appreciation, the longer the kiss should be, full on the mouth. I'm trying to gently break that one - he's needing to learn what is appropriate. But maybe by saying, "A long hug is more appropriate," we will make the change painlessly.</p><p></p><p>We do cater to our children's different tastes although when we have a new food which I feel is not going to be too similar to something I know they dislike, I do insist they taste it. Textures in food seem to be more of a reason for this dislike, than taste, although easy child 2/difficult child 2 seems to be like her father - extremely sensitive to bitter tastes in food. In these modern times it's no major hassle to focus on preparing food we all like; or preparing different foods in varying quantity to provide choice.</p><p></p><p>These kids find the world very confusing and often very frightening, which is why they really like order and sameness when they can get it. Changing tasks is a huge problem. Changing routine needs preparation. There are tricks to doing this and getting what you want, with the cooperation of your child, but it takes patience and preparation.</p><p></p><p>If you have a bright child who is also scoring a positive on the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) scale, keeping them stimulated in their special interest area is generally a positive thing to do. Give them plenty of material to get stuck into. Where possible, you can also use the high skill area to help you open doors in adjacent learning subjects.</p><p></p><p>Always believe them when they say they are afraid or anxious. Never try to deny the validity of their feelings - there will be enough other people around to do that for you. </p><p></p><p>An example - "Mummy, I'm afraid of that kitten!"</p><p>"What - a kitten? A cute little ball of fluff? Don't be silly, it's so tiny, it can't hurt you - come on, let's go pat the kitty." (You don't do that - but I did).</p><p></p><p>That was difficult child 1. He was hysterical at the possibility that the kitten might cross the road and touch him - when the kitten looked at him, he almost climbed onto my shoulders, he was sobbing in terror. That is real fear. </p><p>Mind you, instantly grabbing him and whisking him away from the kitten is also not a good idea, it's training him that he has a good reason to be afraid, it's validating the fear. Instead, reassure him that the kitten cannot hurt him, you like kittens and will happily play with it to make sure it doesn't bother him, and he feels slightly safer. </p><p>A later time and we were more prepared - a girl approached our car with a very young puppy. difficult child 1 was again afraid and upset. By that time I recognised that his fear was real and I shouldn't tell him to pull himself together - that is cruel. </p><p>I told him I wouldn't let the puppy near him because the puppy was only a baby and wouldn't understand his fear, but that easy child wanted a chance to pat the puppy and so did I. So, knowing I would keep my promise to him, difficult child 1 quieted down and watched while easy child & I patted the puppy and it then returned to the girl who owned it. difficult child 1 had had (for him) a close encounter with what made him afraid - and he had not been harmed. Each encounter that he could tolerate was a success and worked him towards the day when he actually got a volunteer job working in a zoo!</p><p></p><p>Your children are a handful for you, but there are gifts there which you have barely begun to see. Get a copy of "Explosive Child" and there are techniques there to help you become your children's supporter and facilitator, not their obstacle. It works just as well for PCs, in my experience it works VERY well for PDDs. I know a number of parents on this site love it, but a number find it has been no help - I think for those who find it's not working, there are some diagnoses which maybe don't respond as well and need a different technique again. A theory - all ideas welcome.</p><p></p><p>Jessica, I give you the same advice that was given to the woman on the TV program last night - Just enjoy her."</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 76671, member: 1991"] I'm not surprised at those numbers. Do talk it over with the experts - you sound like you intend to. Also, if you get a pessimistic prognosis, don't be depressed by it. We were told difficult child 3 would never be able to attend a normal school, could never live independently, would always need a great deal done for him. I remember a lot of the discussion about savants back then - the main belief system (still being challenged) was that savant skills in autistics were NOT indicative of any real ability or intelligence - these skills were considered to be like a parrot trained to talk. It can use the words but has no concept of meaning or anything abstract. difficult child 3 was almost part of research into that, back when he was 4 or 5. We made contact too late but we were given details and they were hopeful. A TV program last night was dealing with a mother raising her (now adult) autistic, epileptic, brain-damaged son. At one point while detailing just how much work he was even as they tried to teach him as much life skills as he could learn, she said she was told, "Just enjoy him." At first she was incensed, flabbergasted. And then she thought about it - there is a lot to love about him - he is loving, honest, curious, he is a happy soul. And if you start from there, it does make it easier. I've read a lot and now my boys (and middle daughter) are older, we've learnt a lot. Often, we've learnt it by doing the wrong thing and working out afterwards how we SHOULD have done it. There is a 10 year age difference between the boys, so we've had time to learn and apply our new lessons to difficult child 3, even as we try to fix what we did wrong for difficult child 1. But the most important thing - you meet the child where he/she is. Do what they do, sit with them and imitate them, play alongside rather than with, if necessary. If your child is very bright (and you will sense it at some level) then be very careful - they are VERY sensitive to being patronised and will quickly reject you and what you are doing, if they feel patronised. They have a strong sense of honour, decency and justice (on their own terms, first and foremost) which in time you can bring to a recognition of what society sets store by. But you will clash if you try to cross them in this. You can lead, you can support, but you cannot obstruct or block these kids without a huge battle which, in most cases, you would lose. If not in the short term, then in the long term. And such battles are not healthy for them, even if you feel you are doing the right thing in making them toe the line. This is why schools so often clash and cause problems with these kids - some teachers insist on absolute authority, when in the mind of children like these, such teachers have not earned it, or there is no logical reason. Sarcasm is to be avoided - it is confusing and they feel like you are making fun at their expense - degrading, which jars their basic sense of what is right and decent. You can best teach these children by your own example, and by gentle, clear, concise direction (when they are able to handle it). Treat them with respect, in order to teach respect. Do not raise your voice - it often causes physical pain. Do not force physical contact - ditto. mother in law reached difficult child 3 by repeatedly saying to him at every opportunity, "I love you." As a result, SHE was the first one he said, "I love you," to in reply. And I was not resentful - she had earned the right. But one day difficult child 3 came to me where I was sitting, put his head on my leg and said, "I love you, Mummy." I remember thinking, "Maybe he even has some glimmering of what it means - he is trying to do the normal thing, he's seen his sister, he's seen his father." We ask difficult child 3 for a hug, before we force one on him. He will generally oblige. And now, he will voluntarily kiss me to indicate he is happy, or is trying to thank me. But he seems to feel that the more he wants to show his appreciation, the longer the kiss should be, full on the mouth. I'm trying to gently break that one - he's needing to learn what is appropriate. But maybe by saying, "A long hug is more appropriate," we will make the change painlessly. We do cater to our children's different tastes although when we have a new food which I feel is not going to be too similar to something I know they dislike, I do insist they taste it. Textures in food seem to be more of a reason for this dislike, than taste, although easy child 2/difficult child 2 seems to be like her father - extremely sensitive to bitter tastes in food. In these modern times it's no major hassle to focus on preparing food we all like; or preparing different foods in varying quantity to provide choice. These kids find the world very confusing and often very frightening, which is why they really like order and sameness when they can get it. Changing tasks is a huge problem. Changing routine needs preparation. There are tricks to doing this and getting what you want, with the cooperation of your child, but it takes patience and preparation. If you have a bright child who is also scoring a positive on the Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) scale, keeping them stimulated in their special interest area is generally a positive thing to do. Give them plenty of material to get stuck into. Where possible, you can also use the high skill area to help you open doors in adjacent learning subjects. Always believe them when they say they are afraid or anxious. Never try to deny the validity of their feelings - there will be enough other people around to do that for you. An example - "Mummy, I'm afraid of that kitten!" "What - a kitten? A cute little ball of fluff? Don't be silly, it's so tiny, it can't hurt you - come on, let's go pat the kitty." (You don't do that - but I did). That was difficult child 1. He was hysterical at the possibility that the kitten might cross the road and touch him - when the kitten looked at him, he almost climbed onto my shoulders, he was sobbing in terror. That is real fear. Mind you, instantly grabbing him and whisking him away from the kitten is also not a good idea, it's training him that he has a good reason to be afraid, it's validating the fear. Instead, reassure him that the kitten cannot hurt him, you like kittens and will happily play with it to make sure it doesn't bother him, and he feels slightly safer. A later time and we were more prepared - a girl approached our car with a very young puppy. difficult child 1 was again afraid and upset. By that time I recognised that his fear was real and I shouldn't tell him to pull himself together - that is cruel. I told him I wouldn't let the puppy near him because the puppy was only a baby and wouldn't understand his fear, but that easy child wanted a chance to pat the puppy and so did I. So, knowing I would keep my promise to him, difficult child 1 quieted down and watched while easy child & I patted the puppy and it then returned to the girl who owned it. difficult child 1 had had (for him) a close encounter with what made him afraid - and he had not been harmed. Each encounter that he could tolerate was a success and worked him towards the day when he actually got a volunteer job working in a zoo! Your children are a handful for you, but there are gifts there which you have barely begun to see. Get a copy of "Explosive Child" and there are techniques there to help you become your children's supporter and facilitator, not their obstacle. It works just as well for PCs, in my experience it works VERY well for PDDs. I know a number of parents on this site love it, but a number find it has been no help - I think for those who find it's not working, there are some diagnoses which maybe don't respond as well and need a different technique again. A theory - all ideas welcome. Jessica, I give you the same advice that was given to the woman on the TV program last night - Just enjoy her." Marg [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Parent Support Forums
General Parenting
Help! 5 yr old irritable dafiant, hates clothes
Top