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Help -Dealing with more than just behavior issues
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 156954" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>There can be many reasons for this, from purely emotional to sensory issues to physical problems or any combination of these. But perhaps because of our own experiences in our house, I'm with Midwest Mom on this, I'm thinking Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) in some form at least needs to be considered.</p><p></p><p>For now, I'd be putting her back in PullUps. It's an acknowledgement of, "OK dear, you're still not ready to use a toilet, so we'll just have to keep you in nappies until you are." (I know you probably feel this is giving in to her and letting her get away with bad behaviour, and that she could well take advantage of this and be even lazier - sometimes you have to let them have their way for a bit, to make sure they've had enough eventually).</p><p></p><p>I remember when difficult child 1 was a baby, we would lie him on the floor on a bouncinette, with a toy stand above him so he could reach his toys and play with them. easy child, who had never shown any interest in such things as a baby especially once she started to crawl, suddenly reverted to baby behaviour and wanting to lie on the bouncinette with the toy stand over her head. So I let her. She tried it out, then pretended to be a baby. I went along with it for a minute and made sure that she knew the difference between being a dependent baby unable to talk, and a capable two year old able to talk, to walk, to dress herself and to feed herself. All she had wanted was a little reassurance that growing up and moving on was OK, and that she didn't have to move on if she wasn't ready.</p><p></p><p>Both my boys were a nightmare when it came to toilet training. difficult child 3, even after he was (mostly) trained, wouldn't use a toilet away from home. He often soiled himself at school. I used to teach my (now lunchtime) class after school and often would get one or two kids who "had an air about them", clearly with soiled clothing. I would be stuck with them for an hour, not permitted to touch them or suggest they clean up.</p><p></p><p>I also remember the finger painting. Oh, what fun (not).</p><p></p><p>Here's what we did (based on my older sister's kids). First, as soon as the kid can walk, I used them to help with nappy changing. The toddler can always put their own nappy in the nappy bucket, or the nappy bin (depending on whether you use cloth or disposable). Any overflow - well, someone has to clean it up. While ever the mother is seen as the one whose job it is to scrub poo out of the carpet or off the walls, then the child will not see any amount of personal responsibility.</p><p></p><p>You don't have to do it with an air of punishment - instead, the kid has clearly been entertaining themselves, now it's time to tidy it all up. What? You mean it's NOT as easy to clean up as it usually is to put your blocks away? Hmm, then maybe you need to rethink this one, little darling, before you paint with excreta again. OK, I will help, we will do it together. It would be good to make sure we can clean it so there is no smell, you don't want people coming in here and knowing just from the smell what you've been doing, do you?</p><p></p><p>Depending on the age of the child and how much practice they've had, you do need to work alongside them a bit. And to make sure they're not making a mess just to get you to work alongside them, you need to also make time to do fun stuff together, such as bake cookies. Time taken out to clean up a mess takes time away from having fun together. "Sorry, Mummy's too tired to bake cookies with you right now, I need to rest after scrubbing that floor."</p><p></p><p>I've handed my kids the scrubbing brush and some warm soapy water, to make sure they clean up after finger painting. I also make them clean themselves up (with help where needed) if they soil their clothes. ALL their clothes have to be changed, they need a thorough wash (in the shower, preferably) and then they need to clean their soiled clothing and put it into the washing machine. </p><p></p><p>This is not punishment. It's part of personal responsibility.</p><p></p><p>If I spill a cup of milk, I must mop it up immediately. If my child spills a cup of milk, he must mop it up immediately, although if he's very young I will help. But neither of us can move on to play or do anything else until that milk has been mopped up.</p><p></p><p>For toilet training difficult child 3 - we went to an expert. We had tried everything and finally needed help. A big part of the problem was that he didn't recognise the feeling of either needing to go, or having just gone. Then you get a psychological overlay on top of it - "Im in trouble again, I don't know how to control this properly, so I may as well get some mileage out of it." Anger, resentment and just downright naughtiness creeps in.</p><p></p><p>But the start - we went back to nappies. </p><p></p><p>Some kids just take longer because their bodies aren't ready. You can't set the alarm clock by the calendar. One of my nephews was allegedly bowel trained at only a few months old. difficult child 3 was six years old at least. </p><p></p><p>And it's not related to intelligence, either - difficult child 3 is one very bright kid. My nephew - yes, he's bright, but I don't think he's quite in difficult child 3's league. He was just ready, that's all.</p><p></p><p>I'd be giving serious thought to at least checking out Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) as a possibility. It won't hurt to at least rule it out.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 156954, member: 1991"] There can be many reasons for this, from purely emotional to sensory issues to physical problems or any combination of these. But perhaps because of our own experiences in our house, I'm with Midwest Mom on this, I'm thinking Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) in some form at least needs to be considered. For now, I'd be putting her back in PullUps. It's an acknowledgement of, "OK dear, you're still not ready to use a toilet, so we'll just have to keep you in nappies until you are." (I know you probably feel this is giving in to her and letting her get away with bad behaviour, and that she could well take advantage of this and be even lazier - sometimes you have to let them have their way for a bit, to make sure they've had enough eventually). I remember when difficult child 1 was a baby, we would lie him on the floor on a bouncinette, with a toy stand above him so he could reach his toys and play with them. easy child, who had never shown any interest in such things as a baby especially once she started to crawl, suddenly reverted to baby behaviour and wanting to lie on the bouncinette with the toy stand over her head. So I let her. She tried it out, then pretended to be a baby. I went along with it for a minute and made sure that she knew the difference between being a dependent baby unable to talk, and a capable two year old able to talk, to walk, to dress herself and to feed herself. All she had wanted was a little reassurance that growing up and moving on was OK, and that she didn't have to move on if she wasn't ready. Both my boys were a nightmare when it came to toilet training. difficult child 3, even after he was (mostly) trained, wouldn't use a toilet away from home. He often soiled himself at school. I used to teach my (now lunchtime) class after school and often would get one or two kids who "had an air about them", clearly with soiled clothing. I would be stuck with them for an hour, not permitted to touch them or suggest they clean up. I also remember the finger painting. Oh, what fun (not). Here's what we did (based on my older sister's kids). First, as soon as the kid can walk, I used them to help with nappy changing. The toddler can always put their own nappy in the nappy bucket, or the nappy bin (depending on whether you use cloth or disposable). Any overflow - well, someone has to clean it up. While ever the mother is seen as the one whose job it is to scrub poo out of the carpet or off the walls, then the child will not see any amount of personal responsibility. You don't have to do it with an air of punishment - instead, the kid has clearly been entertaining themselves, now it's time to tidy it all up. What? You mean it's NOT as easy to clean up as it usually is to put your blocks away? Hmm, then maybe you need to rethink this one, little darling, before you paint with excreta again. OK, I will help, we will do it together. It would be good to make sure we can clean it so there is no smell, you don't want people coming in here and knowing just from the smell what you've been doing, do you? Depending on the age of the child and how much practice they've had, you do need to work alongside them a bit. And to make sure they're not making a mess just to get you to work alongside them, you need to also make time to do fun stuff together, such as bake cookies. Time taken out to clean up a mess takes time away from having fun together. "Sorry, Mummy's too tired to bake cookies with you right now, I need to rest after scrubbing that floor." I've handed my kids the scrubbing brush and some warm soapy water, to make sure they clean up after finger painting. I also make them clean themselves up (with help where needed) if they soil their clothes. ALL their clothes have to be changed, they need a thorough wash (in the shower, preferably) and then they need to clean their soiled clothing and put it into the washing machine. This is not punishment. It's part of personal responsibility. If I spill a cup of milk, I must mop it up immediately. If my child spills a cup of milk, he must mop it up immediately, although if he's very young I will help. But neither of us can move on to play or do anything else until that milk has been mopped up. For toilet training difficult child 3 - we went to an expert. We had tried everything and finally needed help. A big part of the problem was that he didn't recognise the feeling of either needing to go, or having just gone. Then you get a psychological overlay on top of it - "Im in trouble again, I don't know how to control this properly, so I may as well get some mileage out of it." Anger, resentment and just downright naughtiness creeps in. But the start - we went back to nappies. Some kids just take longer because their bodies aren't ready. You can't set the alarm clock by the calendar. One of my nephews was allegedly bowel trained at only a few months old. difficult child 3 was six years old at least. And it's not related to intelligence, either - difficult child 3 is one very bright kid. My nephew - yes, he's bright, but I don't think he's quite in difficult child 3's league. He was just ready, that's all. I'd be giving serious thought to at least checking out Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) as a possibility. It won't hurt to at least rule it out. Marg [/QUOTE]
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