Help me make it through another day

[Glad]

I am new here, and I have a 6 year old daughter who was diagnosed with ADHD, anxiety, and oppositional defiance disorder. I don't know a lot about these conditions, but I do know I am losing this battle. I have come to the end of my rope and don't know where to turn. Her school counselors say she is fine, her regular counsoler said she didn't need more help and cut her loose. I can't go a single day without a battle over everything. I could tell her we were having ice cream for dinner and she would argue with me. I have two boys as well, almost 2 and almost 3, I am a student and I work as well. I am married but my husband is gone a lot. I have scheduled my daughter for yet another appointment with the behavioral pediatrician, and an intake appointment with a new counsoler. So far my daughter is not on medications, but it seems to be fast coming to that point, although I don't think these episodes have anything to do with ADHD, more the ODD but again, I do not know enough about this problem. Any help will be appreciated.

 

[Hound dog]

Welcome to the Board Glad!

(((hugs)))

Certainly sounds like you have your hands full. It's not uncommon for school staff to attempt to poo poo our kids issues. Most of the parents here have delt with the same sort of thing.

If you go to the homepage there are links you can click on to read more about different disorders. Also you might want to try the book The Explosive Child by Ross Greene. Many parents here have found it extremely helpful.

Does your daughter have an IEP in place at school? If not you might want to request one. You can get info on how to do it over in the Special Education forum.

How did your daughter do developmentally? Did she meet her developmental milestones on time?

How does she do with peers? In the classroom? With teachers? How is she at home? With her siblings?

What types of evaluations has she had?

Sorry about the questions. But background info helps us offer better suggestions.

The board is kind of slow on weekends. But others will be along soon.

(((hugs)))

 

[BusynMember]

Are you satisfied with her diagnosis? Do you think it's correct? What does your "mommy gut" tell you?

 

[LittleDudesMom]

Good Morning Glad,

I agree with Lisa, it is unusual that the school is saying "everything is fine". Although, there are many children who "maintain" well in school and fall apart at home. I'm going to assume that she behaves well in school and does find with her work.

I also suggest "The Explosive Child", it is a truly enlightening look into what makes our challenging children tick and ways to come to terms in the house.

I know you are overwhelmed right now, especially with having the two little ones. I would suggest, prior to your daughter's first appointment with her new couselor, that you prepare a "parent report" of sorts. If you check on the Special Education archives, you will find a sample.

Basically it gives a "snapshot" of your child. Basic health history, first indication that your daughter had "issues", things that set her off, things that calm her down, what triggers there may be, how she gets along with her siblings, her parents, her teachers, what you've found that works with her, what you've found that doesn't, etc.

Start preparing that now. It takes a number of days to really do a good job on it. Just work on it when you have time. It's a wonderful thing to take along or even mail ahead to the doctor. There is not enough time in an appointment to go over everything, and you could leave some important stuff out.

Take a deep breath and begin to do some research here on the board. Visit the archives. Do some research on the web. It's how most of us got started.

But more importantly, take a deep breath and understand that your daughter may not be able to give you what you want from her right now. She is very young and probably does not have the abiity to express what is going on inside. She doesn't behave badly towards you because it makes her happy.

So glad you found your way to us.

Sharon

 

[susiestar]

Welcome. Lots of help, support and experience here. All freely shared.

I am not sure what a behavioral pediatrician is? Is it a developmental pediatrician??

Many of us recommend neuropsychologist testing, or testing by a multidisciplinary team (found at major hospitals - esp Children's). This is much more intensive testing than found with other doctors.

ODD may explain the behaviors you see. That is what ODD means, she has a set of behaviors. It does NOT explain why she has them, or what causes them. ODD is not a stand-alone diagnosis. IT is usually caused by another disorder. IF you can identify and treat the other disorder, then the ODD behavior often becomes more manageable. And sometimes it disappears.

Many, if not most, of us here started with the ADHD diagnosis. Then went around trying to figure out what was going on, because it just did not fit the bill. Or the treatment did not help.

What treatment is she getting for this? Diet, counselling,??? Usually the doctor wants to prescribe medication as soon as they tell you ADHD. It can help.

However, if school is saying it isn't a problem, is she learning there? In a very rowdy class, so that her behaviors are overlooked? I know I often heard my son was fine, but mostly because they did not want to provide services. I did hear, on report cards and when talking about behavior, that my son was wild, undisciplined, any number of adjectives.

What kind of treatment was the counsellor doing? Did it help? Was it for anxiety, or for ADHD? (what kind of ADHD is she diagnosed with - inattentive, hyperactive, combined? I may be forgetting one or more types, it has been a long time.)

The Explosive Child will help a lot. It was a really big help, and a good insight into what my child was experiencing/thinking.

Hugs,

Susie

 

[Glad]

She did have an IEP, started when she was in school sponsered playgroup two years ago. The kicked her off in January because she "did not need it" Since then she has been getting progressively worse.

Developmentaly she was/is above all the milestones and tests. She is in kindergarden but doing 1 grade math and reading.

Peers, she is definately bossy. She seems to get along with other kids fine, but sometimes gets ignored because she is so pushy. Her teachers and the school have nothing but glowing remarks on how great she is. Her teacher has noticed more bad behavior in the last few weeks, he has had to pull her out of P.E. and recess on a few occasions. She is ok with her brothers, bouncing between being nice to them and being pushy and grumpy. It is me that she is an absolute hellion.

Natalie has had an entire workup. I have filled out pages and pages of evaluation forms, her preschool teachers too. At the request of the behavioral dr. she had a complet psychological exam done. They confirmed ADHD with the emphasis on the hyperactivity part. They also stated she had major control issues and when she is in a situation that is beyond her control she gets extremely anxious. I was also told she has oppositional defiance disorder, but I have no idea what that even means. I can't remember if there was anything else.

As for treatment, I have tried diet, behavior modification, counsoling and laying strict groundrules. The behaviorist does not believe that medication is necessary at this time. I have no idea what her counsoler was doing with her because I was not allowed in the room. We would start the session together while I explained what had happened the previous week, then I would have to leave. They would come out of the room with drawn pictures, and the counsoler would tell me when to bring her back.

 

[Hound dog]

Glad

I would have serious problems with a counselor who wants to be alone with my 5 yr old child. Even with my teen I was standing right outside the door. Which was silly because she never told them what she hadn't already told me.

If you don't agree with the treatment plan for your daughter, or have any doubts, don't hesitate to get a second opinion, or even a third. The neuropsychological evaluation is a good suggestion, it's a long evaluation that last usually over a period of 2 days and tests for everything.

Your little girl is still young. Symptoms and behaviors may appear and disappear as she ages, so it's not uncommon for dxes to change accordingly. Making a parent report gives the doctor vital info on medical background, what evaluations were done, behavior both at home and at school...... And actually, once you get started on it you may be surprised at what you begin to notice or things you've forgotten over time. While preparing mine, I even got out old videos of the kids and watched them. It helped me remember old behaviors.

Take deep breaths. You found an amazing place for support.

(((hugs)))

 

[Wiped Out]

Just popping in to add my welcome-glad you found us but sorry you needed to. You definitely have a lot on your plate. Are you getting any time for yourself? It's so important to take care of you!

 

[Glad]

Time for me? I am a full time college student, full time mom, full time cook, housekeeper, taxi driver, wife, and oh yeah, I have a job. I know I need to take time, but I have nobody who is willing to take 3 kids, even just for a few hours. I have to keep my job or I lose my childcare subsidy, and if I lose that I have no way to go to school.

 

[flutterbee]

Anxiety can cause one to have a need to control.

I relate so well to what you described, as I saw a lot of the same behaviors out of my daughter at that age. And the school insisted she was fine, but they were missing the 'subtle' things - that really weren't so subtle.

My daughter's anxiety caused her to look very ADHD as you described - with the very hyperactive part. For example, dinnertime consisted of her taking a bite of food and making a couple of laps around the table. It took her well over an hour to eat because of it. It was really the anxiety causing the hyperactivity. I'm not trying to suggest that is the case with your daughter; just wanted to offer another perspective.

Definitely read The Explosive Child. Welcome to the board.

 

[Glad]

Wow! That is my daughter at dinner, well any meal really. I sometimes wonder if she is really adhd or not because sometimes she is fine, but most the time she is obstonant and drives me up the wall. It does not help that I have depression and anger issues of my own to deal with.

 

[susiestar]

Glad,

With all that you have on your plate how could you NOT have issues of your own?? Please don't beat yourself up, you have really made a lot of progress in getting the evaluations, etc that you have done. You are also under a lot of pressure.

If your daughter is so hyperactive, how does she handle being in a classroom? Is her teacher just oblivious? Is the room super-structured and that is keeping her in check? I am quite confused, but I have only had the hyper stuff from the boys.

HAs anyone evaluated her for Sensory Integration Disorder? This is when the brain does not interpret the various sensory input appropriately. She might crave or hate certain stimuli. There is a great book called The OUt of Sync Child that explains it well.

I found that dealing with the sensory issues with my youngest made him much much calmer. It dealt with his anxiety, and he has made huge strides since we started therapy for this.

Is it at all possible to observe your child in school?? Is she very different than she is at home? What do they do that is different than what you do? What is the same?? What is different in her response to what they do than in her response to what you do??

MAny of our kids are worse for mom than anyone else. I think that they know that mom will always love them, so they don't have to hold it together for mom. My difficult child used to be "fine" at school - meaning no major behavior problems, but lots of smaller, or more subtle behaviors that no one bothered to deal with or see. When he got home he would fall apart. ALL over the place behaviorally, totally unable to cope.

Hugs,

Susie

 

[susiestar]

I wanted to say that under NO circumstances would my child be alone with the therapist for most of a session. The therapy was to help us work together. Now, at age 12, my daughter might be alone for a good part of a session, but NOT usually. I need to know what is going on, what they are working on, and how to help.

My difficult child told the therapist (and any other adult) incredible and outlandish stories of abuse. NONE of it was true, most of it was not even humanly possible (You can't force children to eat bombs and let them explode in their tummies. Or at least I couldn't figure it out, LOL!!! - stories like this).

It really is not appropriate for you not to be there. You can't say what is going on, and our kids are very vulnerable.

Susie

 

[Glad]

I didn't know about the counseling alone vs together thing, they just told me she was the one going for counseling, privacy act, yada yada yada. I know the the main issues are between her and I, and those need to be addressed. I have never even heard about sensory integration disorder. I do know from what I have seen and been told, it is almost like she is two totaly different kids, at school she is (mostly) behaved, polite, and follows directions well. At home, well, she is not. She was mad at me last night for telling her to clean her room, and she threatened to break my laptop that I use for school.

I need to get back to bed. I am feeling guilty today (well at least a little bit) I woke up with a huge migrain, so took daughter to school, boys to daycare, and came home and went back to bed You guys are great! I am so happy I found this place. It is so nice to say what is happening and have people "get it" rather than tell me I am over reacting or some such cr*p. I have gotten more usefull information in just a few days here than I have in over 2 years with the dr's

 

[Glad]

Ok, just a little update here. We finally made it in to see the BiPolar (BP) dr. and she says it is time to consider medication because "it seems your family is in crises" You Think? Anyway, she decided to hold off and because we had a counseling intake appointment for two days later. Made it to that too and had a good initial session. The intake counselor set us up with a counselor who is supposedly really good at working with multiple issues and people, so she is supposed to be working with both my daughter and I together. This lady also said she is of the oppinion that daughter would do well in a group setting. I have high hopes for this go-round.

On the home front, husband and I actually made it out of the house, out of the state even, without the kids for TWO WHOLE DAYS!!!! It was so nice, but weird not having kids always crying for something.

 

[looking4hope]

You need to reinstate your daughter's IEP. An IEP cannot be rescinded without parental approval, and a typical IEP is in place for at least three (3) years. I think your school district is messing with you big time, especially if she's being seen by a behavioral specialist and counselor. Has the school done a full psychiatric evaluation as well as looking for deficiencies in her learning? If not, ask them to do it. And make sure you have an IEP and not a 504; the latter has less legal protections than an IEP.

At a minimum, I would have your daughter evaluated by a pediatric psychiatrist, if not a neuropsychologist, to get a better evaluation and diagnosis. As Susie stated, most of us had an initial diagnosis of ADHD, but found that it didn't fit. Many kids with anxiety disorders keep it fairly together at school (fear?), but then let loose at home. You might consider videotaping your daughter when she's exhibiting these behaviors at home and show them to the school, psychiatrist and counselor. This might open their eyes to what's really going on, and get your daughter the help she needs.

We're all on your side, and that of your daughter. We all know that if these Gifts from God (difficult children) don't get early intervention at home and at school, then there is no way they can live to their full potential. So welcome, and rant when needed, ask questions when doubtful, and for advice when you're at the end of your rope.

 

[Glad]

We have upcoming appointments with a new counselor so i am going to see about getting the IEP reinstated. I know she has had a complete psychiatric evaluation done, and we do have an appointment with the kind that can prescribe medications, i can never keep it straight which one that is. unfortunately that is not until April. I am very hopefull this time around, I am just so tired of all this fighting, and I am tired of having a family that can't cooperate or work together.

 

[Kjs]

Anxiety can cause one to have a need to control.

We struggled with this for 13 years. Hah....he was colic, had to control things THEN. No, I believe when i was pregnant. He made me sick.

School...big, big issue. In his mind he needs to control things. When he can not, he has anxiety attacks and things get way out of hand.
We work on recognizing the signs of anxiety. Other options. Taking things ONE issue/item/problem at a time.

We were always told no ADHD. Yet, taking the medication helps him. (Per difficult child) Teachers say they see some improvement. He does not take it on days there is no school. And he has forgotten it in the mornings before school. (he is home alone 3 days a week)

Yep, anxiety. And the ODD. Happy little kid one minute and a split of a half second for no apparent reason there is this child I never saw before. Here he can do anything his heart desires, but when he turns into this other child, he could tell me the sky is RED..as long as it is something he can argue about!!! That I just do not get because inside he HAS to know he is wrong, but he would never admit it. And there I am sucked into another argument with a child. Not even realizing it until too late.

Take a walk. Breathe. Take a bath. Time for YOU. Regroup.


You have so much going on. Take a moment for you.