Discussion in 'Special Ed 101' started by wincha, Feb 12, 2007.

  1. wincha

    wincha New Member

    What can we do when a teacher manipulates a situation to get my child removed from the classroom?
    My daughter was considered non disabled. We are getting an IEE next week. Today she was removed from the class for an in school suspension because she didn't get a book fast enough during book box time, then the teacher handed her a book, my daughter asked if she could get another book(it takes my daughter more time to pick out things due to her Generalized Anxiety Disorder (GAD)) so she told her to go to the office. My daughter asked why she was being sent to the office. I was called and told that this was considered disrespect and had a 3 hour in school suspension. My daughter was crying, I asked over the phone if she could talk to a counselor and the principal said one was not available, I asked him again then he said she might be able to see another counselor.

    Last week after missing 9 days of school for flu/pneumonia she was given a Geometry test the first day she came back. She tried to ask some questions regarding the test since she had not learned the material so the teacher sent her out of the class to do it. When she didn't complete it out of the class she was then sent to the principals office to complete it. She was upset that she would fail it because she didn't do it so I sent a note asking what assignments she needed to complete since missing school and if this material could be taught to her before she took the test. We had worksheets at home she took the test again and got a 100%. This is not due to the teacher or teaching this is due to the fact my daughter is very bright.

    We have an IEE next week. My husband requested and FBA and BIP. How can we keep this teacher from trying to find any little thing to send her out of the classroom? She was denied before as they said her learning wasn't affected but said she was at risk for depression, self esteem and something else. She is going to be basket case if this continues. She didn't want to go to school today.
  2. tiredmommy

    tiredmommy Site Moderator

    Just my .02, but I'd consider moving my child from this classroom. And I don't say that lightly because I know a move will be stressful for your daughter. It seems as though the teacher is doing things purposely to ratchet up your daughter's anxiety. Unbelievable!
  3. Martie

    Martie Moderator


    If this keeps up, your daughter is not going to be able to GO to school. Anxiety works that way. I think you need to get a clear definition of "disrespect" which does not include, in my opinion, asking a question. I would also ask for clear rules and consequences--so that she is not sent out for these picky things. (by the way--3 hours is ridiculous for what you describe.) All the things that come to mind require qualification which is why they do not want to qualify her. It will give you a lot of power. Is there another teacher at her grade level?

    I do not understand your school district--given their behavior, IF your daughter were already Special Education qualified, I would say that they are trying to drive her into a more restrictive placement-to get rid of her. However, since they are also fighting qualification, it seems they are just trying to drive her crazy.

    This is really disgusting of them.

  4. wincha

    wincha New Member

    Thank you for the advice. I will pass it on to my husband who is dealing with the school We have a 2 page CARE plan and they are not following it but not that its binding. Also they are choosing to view this as behavior and its not. There are 3 other teachers at her grade level we requested a change of teacher and was refused. She has been with this principal for 18 years we will not persuade him at all. She has her IEE next week.

    I don't understand this school at all. I know the teacher is mad at us for continuing to get my daughter tested but since the beginning of school she has said over and over that my daughter has a behavorial problem.

    She didn't want to go to school this morning also.
  5. Martie

    Martie Moderator

    It sounds as though this teacher equates a behavior problem with willful behavior that a child can change if she is motivated by negative consequences.

    This is not the case, and a BEHAVIOR PROBLEM will qualify a child for an IEP JUST AS FAST AS AN EMOTIONAL PROBLEM--and sometimes faster. BOTH are the same category under IDEA (ED; formerly SED)--so this is a semantic argument they are choosing to have at your child's expense. I KNOW my ex-difficult child had emotional problems but if they wanted to call him EBD, fine with me--as long as he qualified to get the legal protection, and I got the leverage I needed to force changes that teachers were unwilling to make. Missing so much class time is a negative educational impact in and of itself.

  6. pepperidge

    pepperidge New Member


    I think you make a good point about behavioral issues that stem from what might call biochemical or other neurological issues. The label in that sense doesn't matter. But here's my concern.

    While admitting the above, how then do you go about keeping a child out of "behavioral programs" that seems to be designed for your more unruly, disorderly, conduct disorder kids (many of whom I suspect have undiagnosed mental illness) that rely heavily on behavioral mod type techniques? It would seem to me that such programs probably wouldn't help kids with anxiety, depression, LDs etc who manifest part of their illness as ODD type school refusual type issues.

    Thanks, as always.

  7. Martie

    Martie Moderator


    You have identified the MAIN problem with the Federal Law in the area of ED (SED or EBD in some states.) What I said is true (everything is lumped together so either behavior or emotional problems should qualify a student) but that does not make it workable. Mixing big time acters-out with kids with mood disorders does not work.

    I have to add, however, that I lost at Due Process on this issue: I would not put ex-difficult child into classes with the same kids who had been his tormentors through grade school. The H.O. was extrememly biased, however, saying it was "inconvenient" that a student with so many intense emotional needs also needed German, advanced math and science, regular English, yada, yada, yada, that were not offered in "self-contained" programs where, apparently, not only were most of the kids acters-out, they also were concommitant for LDs. She found ex-difficult child difficult to fit into her OSFA approach and she just ignored the issues you raise as real problems in obtaining FAPE.

    This was a HUGE contributing factor to ex-difficult child landing in EGBS--which was carefully selected NOT to contain highly acting out students, had a ZERO tolence for violence, was therapeutic rather than exclusively b-mod, and had many students with mood disorders etc. So through private pay, you can control who the other students are. Our high school district deprived ex-difficult child of FAPE, and there was nothing I could do about it after the H.O. found the behavior of the "other students" to be irrelevant to FAPE. We could not pay for EGBS and go to court. I made the correct decision for our family, I think.

    Fortunately, after EGBS, no Special Education was needed and although I kept ex-difficult child registered with the school district as "non-attending" as the ultimate backstop legally should he crash. I never signed an IEP after the 8th grade IEP and he has never been back in the h.s. building that I know of after EGBS--never mind attending.


  8. wincha

    wincha New Member

    We only have ED in our state. Please give me more info about behavior getting an IEP.
  9. Martie

    Martie Moderator


    It's all the same. The Federal law specifies five things that can qualify a student for ED or whatever a state calls the category. (This is unnecessarily confusing because the states HAVE to have the category but can re-name them, i.e., "mildly mentally retarded" in one state is "mildly cognitively delayed" in another and "mildly mentally disabled" in a third. Same thing with ED, EBD, SED, SE/BD) AARRGGHH ....what a mess.

    Here is the citation in full from C.F.R. §300.7(c)(4). It is unchanged from IDEA 97. Cite to actual law is below.

    4) Emotional disturbance is defined as follows:

    (i) The term means a condition exhibiting one or more of the following characteristics over a long period of time and to a marked degree that adversely affects a child's educational performance:

    (A) An inability to learn that cannot be explained by intellectual, sensory, or health factors.

    (B) An inability to build or maintain satisfactory interpersonal relationships with peers and teachers.

    (C) Inappropriate types of behavior or feelings under normal circumstances.

    (D) A general pervasive mood of unhappiness or depression.

    (E) A tendency to develop physical symptoms or fears associated with personal or school problems.

    (ii) The term includes schizophrenia. The term does not apply to children who are socially maladjusted, unless it is determined that they have an emotional disturbance.

    (Authority: 20 U.S.C. §1401(3)(A) and (B); 1401(26))

    I have bolded everything that seems to apply to difficult child and she is AT RISK for (D). What more would they like??? (for her to leave in my opinion)

  10. wakeupcall

    wakeupcall Well-Known Member

    Oh boy, we are about to go into this big time in my son's school. Right now they have a "supervisor" walking everywhere with him because they say he has "persistent physical violence". B**S***.....they just want him out of there! I resent the implication, but there's not a thing I can do about it. He goes to an "Exemplary" elementary school and they can do NO wrong in the eyes of the school district. Within two weeks he'll be moved to another elementary school with the social development classes that he's needed for years and no one would even tell us that such a class existed! Can you tell I'mm REALLY down on the schools these days?????????
  11. wincha

    wincha New Member

    Thank you for being so responsive! Yesterday my husband hand delivered a letter requesting a FBA and BIP. Also we are compiling all letters to and from school including the CARE team plan, my husbands letter of understanding of the CARE team plan in which they did not disagree.
    I am going to involve our advocate, even though husband is an attorney and has worked in this area we are having difficulty discussing it. I need an objective 3rd party. Our advocate works well with my husband and in the past when he was working more in this area we referred clients to each other.

    On to your comments of the law. First of all she was found non disabled and I will quote:
    "Even though student is inconsisten with completing writing assignments, her behaviors do not support a diagnosis of Learning Disability (LD), ED or OHI at this time. While special education services are not available for student, she will need consistent adaptations and modifications in the regular classroom to benefit form regular education curriculum"

    In the meeting we were told since she was still learning she did not qualify. This was in December.

    Her BACS-2 showed
    per teacher: clinical range in anxiety and depression, at risk range for somatization, atypicially, withdrawal, social skills, leadership, sutdy skills and functional communication

    per mom: at risk for withdrawal

    per student: cinical range for self esteem and self reliance, at risk for attitude to school, anxiety and depression.

    1st trimester grades math a, science b(didn't use her time wisely aced all tests) social studies a, reading c (gave her 2 f's for not completing her reading response journal and never told the parents she wasn't competing and she was shutting down for these assignments) writing b

    teacher concerns in class: organization, paragraph construction, and ability to get started, writing skilles are emerging, reading skills need improvement, making meaningful connections and constructing appropriate rsponses to literary text, other concerns pencil tapping, makes noises, doesn't participate in classroom activities, complains of physical discomfort, contines a behavior when no longer appropriate and talks back to teacher Weschler full scale IQ 107
    Verbal comprehension 96
    perceptual reasoning 121
    working memory index 97
    processing speed index 106

    word reading 117 reading comprehension 111
    numerical operations 128 math reasoning 116
    spelling 117 writtten expression 125

    she is supposed to be working with the counselor twice a week to respond appropriatly when she feels overwhelmed and have an alternative assignment

    have been writing letters back and forth with teacher.
    care team meeting is supposed to have supports now and working with counselor, alternative assignments, learing how to say isn't ready to do an assignment without downgrading or getting in trouble.
    had an incident student went into bathroom per rules, other student followed, (teacher later said she was holding court in the bathroom) student has unrestricted privledges for bathroom as has bowel issues, teacher came in, other teacher came in, student in corner crying, teacher states "i can't believe i have to deal with this" counselor comes in. bring this up in meeting with team, totally ignored, teacher said she only blew her nose and didn't know she was crying.

    she missed 9 days of school with pneumonia
    upon returning was given a geometry test she did not learn the material and sat there, then sent out of the class to do it and sat there, then sent to the office and sat there. i sent a letter requesting she be taught the material before taking the test so she took it later and got a 100% on it.

    another day she was talking to the counselor and somehow the principal was involved. The teacher though student wasn't going to have a good day and had them talk to her. so they asked her if she would follow instructions and she said i don't know. when they said they would call me she said yes.

    then she missed getting her picture taken for an assignment. she refused to take the pick. so the principal viewed this as insubordination and she failed the assignment. i was told for every occasion she did not follow the rules she would have consequences and get sent to the offical report slip came home from this phone call.

    end of week sent to principals office, no discipline report sent home, student said was for waving to a friend in class, has been in trouble before for talking in class. this is being worked on by counselor and parents, making great improvement in this area

    then yesterday she did not pick out a book fast enough for reading groups,(one of her issues is having the confidence to make choices we have shared this with school many times) her friend stood next to her for a minute and may have talked to her(student denies talking) the teacher gave her a book, student said "could i read another book" teacher said to go to the office, student asked mrs. teacher" why do i have to go the office?" then the teacher called the principal to get her. principal called mom and told me this info as stated but said she was not following class rules so had a 3 hour in school suspension. mom talked to student could hear student after phone call sobbing, asked principal if could talk to counselor, stated she was busy and student is just upset since he called mom, asked again to have her speak to a counselor now, principal said he would try to, talked to another counselor for 20 minutes.

    We only have ED in our state, no BD

    Here is the citation in full from C.F.R. §300.7(c)(4). It is unchanged from IDEA 97. Cite to actual law is below.

    4) Emotional disturbance is defined as follows:

    (i) The term means a condition exhibiting one or more of the following characteristics over a long period of time and to a marked degree that adversely affects a child's educational performance:

    (A) An inability to learn that cannot be explained by intellectual, sensory, or health factors.

    **they say she is learning. her old school was ahead of her. obviously with the teachers comments she feels she is average even though her IQ shows otherwise and she aces almost every single test****

    (B) An inability to build or maintain satisfactory interpersonal relationships with peers and teachers.

    **she has friends but it has been more difficult to make them, we left the last school for this reason amoung others and she was being teased that caused her to shut down in school****

    (C) Inappropriate types of behavior or feelings under normal circumstances.

    **sounds like we have this documented now with how they are treating her***

    (D) A general pervasive mood of unhappiness or depression.

    **at times now, at home since she lets it out at home****

    (E) A tendency to develop physical symptoms or fears associated with personal or school problems.

    *stomach aches, not wanting to go to school, too tired to go to school*** yes it is getting worse was not that bad when she was evaluated but the teacher totally went out of her way to be nice to student until she was found non disabled and then told parents she is non disabled and has to do what she says in the class, began downgrading work, sending to office, talking to student in a way that scared and upset her. makes her feel like she freezes

    (Authority: 20 U.S.C. §1401(3)(A) and (B); 1401(26))

    I have bolded everything that seems to apply to difficult child and she is AT RISK for (D). What more would they like??? (for her to leave in my opinion)
    personally i think they want to kick her out of school or we pull her out of school

    any more info feel free to share. letter writing this evening
  12. lordhelpme

    lordhelpme New Member

    what a bunch of bs! sorry that you have to go thru this.

    i had the understanding that there are emotionally impaired criteria that has nothing to do with-learning level?

    i recommend you get a second opinion by a professional outside of the school district. you can challenge the school district findings.

    good luck and keep us posted!
  13. Martie

    Martie Moderator


    Go for it--YOU might be able to get somewhere with Due Process bec. husband will not make the procedural errors that can be deadly and his fees for legal work will be right :smile:

    I hope you have time/date on these communications. That's why I send everything certified.--plus it is proof of receipt.

    Sounds as though the advocate could be helpful to get your side on the same page as you go forward.

    Best to you,

  14. TEACH

    TEACH New Member


    When I read your post, I totally thought of the child in my classroom. I am a BD teacher at an elementary school and I just grad. from college this summer. (So everyday is a new experience for me...) I only have one child in my class...That he is not allowed to go anywhere without my aid or myself. He has proven that he cannot walk down the halls without trying to pick a fight with another student, especially the younger ones. (And he is in the 5th grade, so you can see the problem.) I totally agree with your comment about the school being "perfect"... Being a new and young teacher, I am pressured to make sure that my child scores above mastery in all subjects on our states standarized test. It is a wonderful day if I do not have one of my plastic desk chairs tossed across the room at me! :smile:
    I totally understand...
  15. wincha

    wincha New Member

    My daughter is having her IEE tomorrow. When she was first tested her teacher was going out of her way to be nice to her so she did test better(emotionally) and was doing better in school(not talking academics). Well in 2 months now with the harsh behavior from her teacher she is having problems getting work done at home, tapping, having to make noise when she does her work. She has some of this at school and is getting worse. Of course the teacher thinks she is doing it on purpose. She is also waking up crying some days about school. The teacher is telling her best friend(many times) not to hang out with my daughter as she will drag her down. We have to address these comments. After what we have on the first evaluation I think now she has been pushed to show more emotional issues now and we will push for the ED label. Husband is getting fed up with all of this, he is putting it all in writing and keeping track.
    We asked for a FBA and BIP and the team is meeting for something they call FIT and it has to do with behavior. Need to run this by the advocate. My daughter can ace any test and is not a behavior problem and her behavior is being held higher than the others in the class.
  16. Martie

    Martie Moderator


    I hope the IEE goes well.