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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 374302" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>You can always vent here. But do keep your details confidential, so if your parents happen to Google details, they won't know it's you.</p><p></p><p>Regarding the lying - it is said that autistics don't lie. But in fact, ALL kids go through a stage of telling lies. But autistics either have a lot of difficulty telling a known lie (some do) or they tend to be bad at lies but still try to tell them. </p><p></p><p>For example, difficult child 3 is seen shoving a kid until he falls over.</p><p>Teacher: Did you push Danny, difficult child 3?</p><p>difficult child 3: No, I didn't. He just fell.</p><p></p><p>When challenged by the teacher who says, "I saw you push Danny," difficult child 3 might try to stick at his story. But he generally was not good at inventing a complex story that was not true. So he would often retreat into confusion.</p><p></p><p>Now, difficult child 2 IS able to do creative writing. He does tend to write about things he's either read, or seen, separately. He happens to be good at dialogue which I find interesting. This is unusual for a kid on the spectrum, but he has been capable of learning and adapting.</p><p></p><p>Similarly, your son may also have been able to learn that telling a lie about being touched, is an effective way to deflect attention away from him and also to get someone into trouble. But something I learned - it is even easier to lead the witness, to set up the alternate reality merely by asking leading questions.</p><p></p><p>Let's consider the abuse allegation. First - you notice he's grabbing at himself. Well, this is something boys do. Especially boys with an anxiety issue. We used to say to our boys, "It's OK, you can let go of it, it is not about to get up and run away."</p><p>Now, if your reaction became, a private concern of "I wonder if someone has touched him inappropriately?" I'm not sure how you could ask the questions without leading the witness.</p><p>Remember I said in my previous post, that these kids want to please you? Well, when you are questioning a kid, they tend to try to give you the answer they think you want to hear, especially if they are scared of getting into trouble or don't fully understand what you want to know.</p><p></p><p>So let's go back to you and your concerns.</p><p>"difficult child, has anyone ever touched you in your private area?"</p><p>[difficult child thinks carefully. He knows he has undoubtedly had other adults in his life change his nappies or otherwise help him get changed. Maybe someone helped bather him. So he thinks carefully and mentions people he's fairly sure are on that list.]</p><p>"My aunt and my grandpa have," he tells the questioner.</p><p>Now the questioner makes eye contact, maybe crouches down beside him and by his/her tone of voice tries to make it obvious that this is important. </p><p></p><p>OK, I won't labour the point. The thing is - if a kid has genuinely been molested, often their responses are monosyllabic and made without a lot of eye contact. But if a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) child is being questioned, he often can feel uncomfortable (especially if the questioner is not a professional and the questions make him feel embarrassed). So more questions get asked and the 'truth' is slowly worked out. "When did this happen? Where? What happened? How did you feel? Did he do this? Or that?" and so on.</p><p></p><p>I tried to explain the same things to difficult child 3's teacher. I had discovered that difficult child 3 had been tripped up by the big kids and he fell and grazed his knees. I asked difficult child 3, "What happened?"</p><p>difficult child 3 said, "The big boys called me over but as I came over, J stuck his leg out and I didn't see it in time, I fell over it and landed on the rock."</p><p>It was as much as I could get out of difficult child 3. I asked him, "Who were the other boys?" but with his partial face blindness, he wasn't certain.</p><p>difficult child 3's friend spoke to me separately and gave me more information.</p><p>I sent a note to the class teacher - "difficult child 3 says that J and some other boys deliberately tripped him up and he grazed his knees."</p><p>The teacher spoke to me afterwards. "I spoke to the boys, they all said difficult child 3 just tripped over his own feet, none of them were anywhere near him. So I spoke to difficult child 3, told him that perhaps he was mistaken. difficult child 3 agreed he might have been mistaken. So we're considering it as just an accident."</p><p></p><p>I spoke quietly to difficult child 3's friend. "I don't want to talk about it," he said. I noticed he had a few fresh bruises.</p><p></p><p>I spoke to difficult child 3. "I could have sworn that J tripped me up and all those boys were right there, but my teacher said that because of my autism, I must have misunderstood."</p><p></p><p>My point - it depends a great deal on how you question a child, as to what answers you get. And if you go looking for sexual abuse, you will find it even where it doesn't exist.</p><p>Another important factor - once a child realises he has power and can use this to get at adults he is angry with, he WILL use it. They can get these ideas from adults who question them inexpertly (never indicate in your question, what answer you expect) or they can get the ideas from other kids who HAVE been through the process and are a bit too streetwise.</p><p></p><p>So Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids can lie, but usually it's not a complex lie and it doesn't generally stand up under expert questioning.</p><p></p><p>Over time, and with ongoing experience that lying is going to get them caught and in trouble, these kids learn tat truth is easier and preferable.</p><p></p><p>Stay vigilant and remember, never ask leading questions. The best question to ask is, "What happened?" "And then what?" Never ask, in your question, "Did it happen this way?" and then give your own idea of possibilities. The child wanting to please you is too likely to say, "Yes'm."</p><p></p><p>As for your family - don't let them upset you. Of course they want to protect themselves. Think about how they handled your brother - they declared him "cured" because it looked better FOR THEM. So be forgiving - but don't confide anything you don't want them to use primarily to protect themselves.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 374302, member: 1991"] You can always vent here. But do keep your details confidential, so if your parents happen to Google details, they won't know it's you. Regarding the lying - it is said that autistics don't lie. But in fact, ALL kids go through a stage of telling lies. But autistics either have a lot of difficulty telling a known lie (some do) or they tend to be bad at lies but still try to tell them. For example, difficult child 3 is seen shoving a kid until he falls over. Teacher: Did you push Danny, difficult child 3? difficult child 3: No, I didn't. He just fell. When challenged by the teacher who says, "I saw you push Danny," difficult child 3 might try to stick at his story. But he generally was not good at inventing a complex story that was not true. So he would often retreat into confusion. Now, difficult child 2 IS able to do creative writing. He does tend to write about things he's either read, or seen, separately. He happens to be good at dialogue which I find interesting. This is unusual for a kid on the spectrum, but he has been capable of learning and adapting. Similarly, your son may also have been able to learn that telling a lie about being touched, is an effective way to deflect attention away from him and also to get someone into trouble. But something I learned - it is even easier to lead the witness, to set up the alternate reality merely by asking leading questions. Let's consider the abuse allegation. First - you notice he's grabbing at himself. Well, this is something boys do. Especially boys with an anxiety issue. We used to say to our boys, "It's OK, you can let go of it, it is not about to get up and run away." Now, if your reaction became, a private concern of "I wonder if someone has touched him inappropriately?" I'm not sure how you could ask the questions without leading the witness. Remember I said in my previous post, that these kids want to please you? Well, when you are questioning a kid, they tend to try to give you the answer they think you want to hear, especially if they are scared of getting into trouble or don't fully understand what you want to know. So let's go back to you and your concerns. "difficult child, has anyone ever touched you in your private area?" [difficult child thinks carefully. He knows he has undoubtedly had other adults in his life change his nappies or otherwise help him get changed. Maybe someone helped bather him. So he thinks carefully and mentions people he's fairly sure are on that list.] "My aunt and my grandpa have," he tells the questioner. Now the questioner makes eye contact, maybe crouches down beside him and by his/her tone of voice tries to make it obvious that this is important. OK, I won't labour the point. The thing is - if a kid has genuinely been molested, often their responses are monosyllabic and made without a lot of eye contact. But if a Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) child is being questioned, he often can feel uncomfortable (especially if the questioner is not a professional and the questions make him feel embarrassed). So more questions get asked and the 'truth' is slowly worked out. "When did this happen? Where? What happened? How did you feel? Did he do this? Or that?" and so on. I tried to explain the same things to difficult child 3's teacher. I had discovered that difficult child 3 had been tripped up by the big kids and he fell and grazed his knees. I asked difficult child 3, "What happened?" difficult child 3 said, "The big boys called me over but as I came over, J stuck his leg out and I didn't see it in time, I fell over it and landed on the rock." It was as much as I could get out of difficult child 3. I asked him, "Who were the other boys?" but with his partial face blindness, he wasn't certain. difficult child 3's friend spoke to me separately and gave me more information. I sent a note to the class teacher - "difficult child 3 says that J and some other boys deliberately tripped him up and he grazed his knees." The teacher spoke to me afterwards. "I spoke to the boys, they all said difficult child 3 just tripped over his own feet, none of them were anywhere near him. So I spoke to difficult child 3, told him that perhaps he was mistaken. difficult child 3 agreed he might have been mistaken. So we're considering it as just an accident." I spoke quietly to difficult child 3's friend. "I don't want to talk about it," he said. I noticed he had a few fresh bruises. I spoke to difficult child 3. "I could have sworn that J tripped me up and all those boys were right there, but my teacher said that because of my autism, I must have misunderstood." My point - it depends a great deal on how you question a child, as to what answers you get. And if you go looking for sexual abuse, you will find it even where it doesn't exist. Another important factor - once a child realises he has power and can use this to get at adults he is angry with, he WILL use it. They can get these ideas from adults who question them inexpertly (never indicate in your question, what answer you expect) or they can get the ideas from other kids who HAVE been through the process and are a bit too streetwise. So Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) kids can lie, but usually it's not a complex lie and it doesn't generally stand up under expert questioning. Over time, and with ongoing experience that lying is going to get them caught and in trouble, these kids learn tat truth is easier and preferable. Stay vigilant and remember, never ask leading questions. The best question to ask is, "What happened?" "And then what?" Never ask, in your question, "Did it happen this way?" and then give your own idea of possibilities. The child wanting to please you is too likely to say, "Yes'm." As for your family - don't let them upset you. Of course they want to protect themselves. Think about how they handled your brother - they declared him "cured" because it looked better FOR THEM. So be forgiving - but don't confide anything you don't want them to use primarily to protect themselves. Marg [/QUOTE]
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