Hey, Cedar, or anyone interested in FOO (Family of Origin) issues. Cedar, WHY NOW???

[BusynMember]

I just wanted to add, as a separate little post, that Operation Oblivion (nothing at all to do with siblings including refusing to look at any of their social media or to talk to my father about them) is working GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREAT!!!! I feel really good. Depression over the rejection, the shame of them reading this, etc. is gone and I no longer care. I don't think about them.

Life is good. I highly recommend de-toxing yourselves from those who trigger your bad memories. It is so cleansing.

I did see my father at Buddha Baby's birthday and he looks so well for his age and it was so good to see him and we took pictures with him.

He drove quite a distance to see us.

He is 91 and amazing.

 

[Copabanana]

I think we were a poor match and that overseas social services could have done better. He was treated well, given every chance in life, and ate and dressed well. Our house was the house on the block that everyone hung around at.

SWOT, we have to stop meeting like this. I have to get a life!!!

Once and for all: Goneboy got the right family. It was a good enough match. He was treated with love, sensitivity, security and kindness. Would you not have thrived with this? He did. His limits limited him. Not your home and family. In your family he got what he needed to succeed.

He was able to fulfill his destiny, what he wanted. With you he had everything a child needs. No child needs to be raised with computer magnates, with Steve Jobs, in order to have a fulfilled life. He sought that out for himself and found what he needed, through the parents of his peers. This was enough. You permitted and supported him. Other parents might not have. It was a good match. You did not stand in his way so that he could not pursue his interests. You did not forbid his seeking out what interested and stimulated him. You encouraged it.

You know about what could have happened. He could have gone to a family that was controlling. Cruel. Mean. That got into his head, beating him down. Now, that would have been a bad placement. He lucked out.

It is interesting that he also is a Hep B carrier.

I am interested in this, because you know we found out my son has Hepatitis B by accident when he was 19. Nobody knew or tested him, ever.

I found out after I got him that his parents had Aids Related Complex. I picked up his medical records at the hospital, and saw on the first page that that his parents had ARC. I was sitting in the car, in a loading zone. My son was behind me in his car seat. I will never forget that moment and my fear that my son might die. And the sense of betrayal that I had never been told.

I brought him immediately to Childrens Hospital Infectious Disease department and he saw the department head to be tested for HIV and other infectious diseases.

Apparently he was not tested for Hepatitis, even though it was known his parents had ARC.

At the time he was born infants were routinely tested after birth for Hepatitis, because there was an antidote that could be given to combat it within the first 24 hours of life. There is no indication he was ever tested or treated.

I will never understand how my son slipped through the cracks. Not once but twice.

That I was allowed to permit the disease to fester within him for 17 years, a time he needed to be followed and treated. And did not know.

I have written before that we found out by accident when he donated blood to get extra credit for a college class. A letter for him from the blood bank sat on the table for a month. I do not know why finally I read it.

I know it is not my fault. We were let down, he and I, by others.

I do not know how I have found the peace and acceptance that I do have. I guess it is by choice.

Getting back to Goneboy. Is he only a carrier, without virus production in his body?

 

[BusynMember]

Yes, he was a low grade carrier without virus production, or he was last I heard.

the two boys must have been adopted from different countries. Back then, I don't think any of the kids who came from my son's country had drug infestation or wild parents. Mostly their parents were mentally ill, but Goneboys birthmother was NOT mentally ill.

We had him tested after we found out that somebody else's child tested positive. It turned out that most of the kids from the orphanages in that country tested positive for Hep. B carriers. They didn't test or tell us.

We adopted Goneboy before AIDS hit. He is now 37.

 

[Copabanana]

Is this the woundedness, or is it that our sisters are the same personality types as our abusers?

I cheated tonight. I looked at the for sale listing of my sister's house, and saw the listing had been removed from the market. My sister is decisive. A good strategist. I am not. She probably got a good price, and is moving on. I am still in bed.

Then I googled her picture. For most of her adult life she was obese. She is now within normal weight. Not thin. But OK. Her hair is dyed, styled. She dresses professionally, well. She looks happy. Content.

I have not had a haircut in almost 4 years. My hair is grey. I am not obese but I am overweight. I wear the same worn clothes every day. I rarely permit myself to leave the house.

What am I aiming for? What is this self punishment about? As Cedar asks, where is the win, in self-defeat?

It must have something to do with permitting her to ascend, of holding myself back because my strength or success robs or damages others. There must be some of this.

I believe I am closer to understanding. I feel more energy with my son here, despite all of the conflict. I feel more complete. More peace. Less despair.

It has to be guilt and the sense of responsibility for others. I am permitting my sister to win, by holding myself back. And I do not know why. Yet.

 

[InsaneCdn]

I am permitting my sister to win, by holding myself back

No, you aren't permitting her to win.
She is simply getting on with her own life.
Just like you need to get on with yours.

Wearing the same dumpy clothes, staying home, not doing stuff for yourself - that has no impact on her or anybody else except you. It's very common in people with depression.

Copa... start taking baby steps. Make yourself buy something new (or new to you) every week. Pick one day of the week when you MUST dress "up" (i.e. differently than usual) and get "out" somewhere... even if it's just to the local thrift store to look for your one "new" thing this week. Start looking after yourself.

Who knows. You might start soaring again. If you do, trust me: it will not pull your sister or anyone else down. You have your own wings. You just need to learn to use them again.

 

[BusynMember]

Ah, Copa. It's easy to cheat. Don't beat yourself up.

Your sister didn't win. She is a mean, miserable person and will never win. Money isn't a win. Being a normal weight is not a win. Being a good person is a win.

I haven't cheated yet. The more they fade away, the less real they seem and they are starting to pack their belongings in the rooms in my head. Let your sister start packing and moving out of the room in your head. Try not to cheat again. That is w hat is making m y recovery from "them" go along so well. They become so much less real to me when I don't look into their existence and what they do.

For all I know my sister is crazily posting about me on her anon. site and still calling me borderline. I don't care anymore. I don't want to know. And I'm beginning not to care if she thinks I'm borderline because she is not a part of my life. She can think whatever she likes, but she can't score what she'd consider a "win" because you can't win anything even in your own mind when the other person doesn't know what you won and doesn't care what you do.

Next time you feel like checking up on Sis remember how it felt this time and hesitate. Then write down the costs to you and benefits to you. I haven't had to do it, but if I got a strong urge to check, say, FB or that site, that's what I'd do. I'm sure after a self-assessment I'd be laughing at myself for even considering it. You would too

I wonder where Cedar is. Cedar!!!! We miss ya!

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Reading along, but without time to think and post.

:O)

How great it felt to be missed! Thanks, thanks, thanks!

Cedar

 

[Lioness]

I cheated tonight. I looked at the for sale listing of my sister's house, and saw the listing had been removed from the market. My sister is decisive. A good strategist. I am not. She probably got a good price, and is moving on. I am still in bed.

Then I googled her picture. For most of her adult life she was obese. She is now within normal weight. Not thin. But OK. Her hair is dyed, styled. She dresses professionally, well. She looks happy. Content.

I have not had a haircut in almost 4 years. My hair is grey. I am not obese but I am overweight. I wear the same worn clothes every day. I rarely permit myself to leave the house.

What am I aiming for? What is this self punishment about? As Cedar asks, where is the win, in self-defeat?

It must have something to do with permitting her to ascend, of holding myself back because my strength or success robs or damages others. There must be some of this.

I believe I am closer to understanding. I feel more energy with my son here, despite all of the conflict. I feel more complete. More peace. Less despair.

It has to be guilt and the sense of responsibility for others. I am permitting my sister to win, by holding myself back. And I do not know why. Yet.

Copa I completely sympathise and understand how you feel. Please, please do something for yourself. Small steps. When I get my hair done I feel human again. If you can afford to set aside some money go to a new hairdresser and get them to colour and cut your hair. You will feel so good about yourself. I know working on the inside is most important. Or go to a petting zoo animals always make one feel better. Go for a coffee and cake with a friend. Do something to nurture you. Be a part of your community maybe by volunteering once a week that will make you feel good, helping others. I have a sister who lives 10 minutes up the road to me. I'm always the one to contact her she never, ever calls me. I have seen her twice this year! She has always been jealous of me especially when I was married to my ex as we were wealthy. So for 19 years I saw her maybe 3 times a year. She was always patronising and criticising my parenting skills and my kids. She doesn't have any kids herself. When I went through my divorce she swooped down and "supported" me. Now I'm re married to a good man she doesn't bother with me anymore. She is hypercritical and very judgmental and competitive. My mum was also borderline and played divide and rule with us. She always favoured my sister yet pitted us against each other. My sister was so angry when I got married before her she being the eldest. When my 79 year old Dad comes over from Greece she always makes excuses or goes conveniently on holiday so she doesn't have to see him. She never compromises on anything. mu sister only likes me when she can patronise me but of I'm ok she cuts herself off and is always "busy". My FOO continues down this awful path. My mum stopped talking to her brother and parents around 25 years ago! She stopped talking to me 26 years ago. Has never met my youngest daughter who is now 22! Stopped talking tou eldest sister around 20 years ago. My grandad on my mums side stopped talking to his sisters forever! It is a sickness and I worry for my kids. Their own Dad also cuts people off very easily. They have it on both sides of the family. Can our DNA be beaten? I despair. Whenever I see my sister I feel so awful after about myself as she looks down on me too much. I have decided this year that I love her but don't miss the way she makes me feel. So am not phoning her at all. Just to see how long she goes without contacting me. Both times this year I made the first move I gave her lovely flowers for her birthday and a vintage brooch. She ignored my birthday. I don't want gifts just a card with a nice message. She loves her cat more than any human just like my mum. I too love my cat but I treasure my human relationships too! What's wrong with the world?! Look after yourself and make yourself stronger you deserve it.

 

[Copabanana]

Or go to a petting zoo animals always make one feel better.

Hi Li. My house is a petting zoo.

These things are true about my family, too:

My mum ...played divide and rule with us.

She always favoured my sister yet pitted us against each other.

Except, it was even more twisted. I was the one in the family that was credited with being prettier, smarter, and stronger. My sister was protected, believed and understood by my mother. I was at a disadvantage because I am sensitive and do not play dirty, as does my sister.

Their own Dad also cuts people off very easily.

I do this. When somebody is mean to me or degrades me, as did my Dad, I pick up my tent and leave.

Whenever I see my sister I feel so awful after about myself as she looks down on me too much.

Exactly.

I have decided this year that I love her but don't miss the way she makes me feel.

Too true.

go to a new hairdresser and get them to colour and cut your hair.

I met a young woman who is a hairdresser and very sweet. We hit it off. She does hair at her house or yours.

I will ask her to cut off a foot of my hair to give me a bob that I can put in a pony tail. With that one step, I will gain ground. I am still too fat to get color. And I am not sure whether or not I want to stay gray. I will wait on this.

I think she is a manicurist too. I can visit her every couple of weeks and get one thing or another done. That will get me back in the habit of my grooming.

Li, I went back and read some of your early posts and plan to respond to them as I have time.

I think you have changed considerably. Already.

There is one point I want to make now.

It is not uncommon that a daughter ally with her father in a divorce and turn against the mother.

I have an acquaintance who told me a bit of her story: Her husband left her for her best friend; the best friend's daughter was also her daughter's best friend.

The daughter allied with the father and turned against the mother. In one fell swoop this woman lost her husband, her best friend and her daughter.

It never got better during the daughter's childhood, and eventually the daughter went to live with the father in his new household. The daughter blamed her mother. There are so many cases like this.

I for one also aligned with my Dad to some extent after my parents' divorce, and have to be careful that my sympathies do not immediately go to the man, first, especially when the woman is aggressive or demanding. As my mother could be.

There is something about a weak father and a little girl who feels she needs to protect him. There is the assumption, fair or not, that the mother can take care of herself. And should.

My Mother was very, very powerful. She could be mean. She took care of herself. She did not need me to protect her.

As I write this, I wonder, if the little girl believes that her own needs are secondary and should be suppressed.

I also wonder if a little girl worries that it was her power that damaged the already weak father.

Your daughter was put in a horrible and impossible position by her Dad, who seems to have cared little for others, and willingly sacrificed his own daughter, to further himself.

In some way, your daughter seems to be protecting herself. To the extreme. She must feel responsibility for how things turned out between her parents. That it was her fault on some level. It clearly was not.

Your daughter will respond well I think to clear, direct and simple interaction and communication. As devoid of emotion as you can make it. No drama. No crying. No self-pity. You do not want to trigger her guilt, so that she lashes out. Just the facts.

I need to do this with my son, too. I go on and on and make speeches. I am sure you can tell by my posts. I give away the store, and provide too much information that can be used against me, to manipulate me. These kids lose respect.

She may fear that your pain is her fault, too.

When she sees you upset or fears you may think she did something wrong, she gets unwound. She feels accused. She shuts down.

I felt this way and may still. Except I am replaying this with my own son.

Thank you for the support, Li.

This phase of my life must come to an end. I am ready to leave it. Thank you very much Li for responding to my post. I am glad you are here on the FOO Files.

 

[Lioness]

Copa you are right. My daughter hates it when I get emotional, cry and I too have a tendency to give great long speeches explaining stuff. I'm trying to not say too much anymore as you are correct in saying that it can and will be used against me! It's taken me 53 years to realise this!

 

[Lioness]

I'm so pleased that you are going to do something positive for yourself. Get your hair professionally done you will feel better. look after yourself you really deserve it x

 

[BusynMember]

My FOO continues down this awful path. My mum stopped talking to her brother and parents around 25 years ago! She stopped talking to me 26 years ago. Has never met my youngest daughter who is now 22! Stopped talking tou eldest sister around 20 years ago. My grandad on my mums side stopped talking to his sisters forever! It is a sickness and I worry for my kids. Their own Dad also cuts people off very easily. They have it on both sides of the family.

Welcome, Lioness!!! Are all these families in some little cult? They ALL act the same...lol. This "you are dead to me" garbage seems to be a staple in dysfunctional families. It is really too bad it's on both sides for your kids. My mother's insane FOO did it, but my father's never did that. Sadly, my un-mother, as I often think of her, ran our household, although she didn't work or drive or clean up or teach us kids how to behave in the world, and she didn't like my father's family so we never saw them. In fact, as a kid, I believed that they were horrible and that HER family were the good guys. Why not? She was the one who was always there (unfortunately) and he was gone as much as possible and I don't blame him. So she was all we had as far as who to hear from. My father and myself were her scapegoats.

I don't speak or want to speak to my ex-brother and ex-sister anymore and I don't even check their FB pages. Fortunately for my own kids, our family was so fractured by t he time they were around that my mother and the rest (all four of them...her, sis, bro and a crazy Uncle) did not see them much or influence them in any way. I feel blessed about that. Although they did know my sister would hang up on me and go no contact for long periods of time, and even call the cops if I called her to find out what she was mad about, they didn't know her. She only interacted with me. So in their minds (and mine) they think she is crazy. I'm sure her kids, who didn't know me, think I'm the crazy one. At any rate, my own family was spared my mother's collection of mean people.

It took me until my mother died and disowned/disinherited me for me to face the truth about my FOO. It was done very meanly as I kept trying to make it right with her while we were both in this world and I called her once a month or so. She NEVER called me. Ever. I still felt I had to try. I feel silly t hat I tried. I believe my mother is a borderline too. SOMETHING wasn't right with her. Maybe she's just mean. It happens. However, to be fair about her, she was nice to my brother, her golden child, and later on in my sister's life she was nice to my sister, or so I have been told. I never saw them together. She was pretty not there for my sister when she was a child.

Anyhow, I thinks things get better if you can truly detach. I've had a lot of practice...lol. Sister must have cut me off ten times in her l ife so each time practice for the time when I would be ready to be done. I *am* done. In the past, Sister would eventually do me the honors of coming back. She never apologized. She just came back. And I let her because I loved her. Well, this time she will not be allowed back and I no longer feel love for her. She is not the person I thought she was and her morals sock too. As for my brother, I don't care if I ever see him again. I don't hate either. I just want them to stay gone and allow me my little fantasy world with my husband and really neat kids and grands.

And I no longer think I'm dirt...as long as I have no contact with my FOO. If I start having any contact with them, including cheating by peeking at t heir FB pages or the forums sister posts on, I start feeling like I felt as a little child all over again---worthless, stupid, lazy and bad. If I don't allow them into my life, even via FB, I like myself. But I can't slip up or I'm right back to where I was when my mother used to mock me, call me names, and tell me I was bad.

These days nobody is allowed to abuse me or the person is not allowed into my life. Period.

Cedar, you still have your daughter and grands there??

 

[BusynMember]

Copa you are right. My daughter hates it when I get emotional, cry and I too have a tendency to give great long speeches explaining stuff. I'm trying to not say too much anymore as you are correct in saying that it can and will be used against me! It's taken me 53 years to realise this!

If your daughter was my daughter, I would hardly engage her at all. I would take care of myself and guard myself from her.

Do you need to see your sister? If not...I wouldn't.

DNA is an accident of birth. It doesn't mean you necessarily love or even like one another or that you can exist in the same room together.

 

[Lioness]

If your daughter was my daughter, I would hardly engage her at all. I would take care of myself and guard myself from her.

Do you need to see your sister? If not...I wouldn't.

DNA is an accident of birth. It doesn't mean you necessarily love or even like one another or that you can exist in the same room together.

Wow! Until I came across this forum I believed my family was uniquely dysfunctional. I didn't know there were other's out there suffering too. My mum was sectioned around 5 years ago as she was having psychotic episodes. When I heard I was sad but glad that at last she was getting help. She tried to commit suicide several times when we were kids. She woul beat us most days and also call me in particular nasty names. Then she would stop talking to you for 3-4 weeks and my sister wouldn't be allowed to talk to you either. I ran away from home at 17 after a severe beating. My grandmother whom I adored was far away in Greece we had no family in the UK. We were very isolated. She was very clever and was respectable in public. When I got married at 18 she wore black! At one point she wanted me to choose between my husband & kids to go back to live with her! She cut me off after I confronted her about how her behaviour. I was told as a child that I was pretty but stupid and wouldn't amount to anything! I was also called a prostitute regularly. Names never bother me now the only thing I get upset about is being called a bad mother which I am not. My sister was the chosen one although she was told she was ugly but clever. I would walk in the room and they would stop talking. But I do remember that sometimes my mum would go to attack me and my sister would stand in the way! This is why I'm so conflicted about my sister. She never talks about our family history. Maybe this is how she copes. I never heard of FOO until very recently and I m going to read as much as I can

 

[Copabanana]

Lioness, you have been abused. There is no other word to describe it.

When your daughter treats you badly it must make you feel as if there is no escape from what your life has been.

Each of us here on the Foo Files has this in common. When our kids fell apart, it touched the part of us that feels like there is something irrevocably broken or wrong or bad about us. Or else why would it be happening again?

That we caused it. It was our fault that our children failed or fell. That it must be something in us, that is responsible.

After all, if we had been good enough mothers, our children would have thrived or they would treat us well.

Then there is anger. We become defensive with them. We defend against their accusations, their criticisms, their betrayals.

Because there is the unspoken fear, I must deserve their rage, their mistreatment of me, their disrespect. Because I am a bad girl. A bad person. A bad mother. Because that is how you came to understand your treatment as a child: It must be my fault or my Mum would not be acting like this or treating me this way.

This is how children make sense of abuse. They come to think that they caused it. That their needs, or their power or their mistakes, were the cause of their parent acting like they did. Because to think that Mother is so out of control, or uncaring, or cruel is too horrible to accept. Then the world would be just too scary. A child could not tolerate that fear.

To feel their world has some order and sense in it. And that they have some power and importance in it, they come to understand their situations as: My fault.

None of this is true. None of it was true.

But the fear is this: This would not be repeating itself, again, with my child, if it were not my fault. Something bad about me. That is the false belief.

These reactions make everything worse. Because when we begin to defend ourselves from our children, we abdicate the role of parent.

And they still need us as parents. Not as victims.

We turn into abused children, with our own children.

And this is why we are here in the Foo Files. To take back our role as effective Mothers. And to understand and to put to rest those childhood traumas that stand as obstacles to our effectiveness as parents.

Lioness, you are not alone. Nor you SWOT or you, Cedar.

Cedar, please come back.

 

[BusynMember]

OMG, Lioness. I never got hit so I sort of wrestle with, "Was I really abused?" My therapists say YES and traumatized by the entire experience.

I hated my mother, but I loved her too. She just hated me and that grew as I got older. She told me that when she held me for the first time she felt "absolutely nothing." That's just the beginning of a horrible mother/daughter relationship.

Dysfunctional families, from what I've read, divide and conquer (good kid/bad kid), love conditionally only (do what I say or treat me exactly as I demand or I disown you), and often experience many members not speaking to one another. Even a tragedy does not bring dysfunctional families together, like serious illness or unexpected death or trauma.

Normal family that are "good enough" (none are perfect) forgive, give UNconditional love, and do forget differences and band together during hard times. They band together to lift the one who is down. Not so in dysfunctional families. Pure chaos, lack of teaching the children how to behave, controlling parent (at least one)...this always blows my mind when I think about it although it isn't even about me. My sister wanted to do a particular profession and wanted to take the college courses leading to that, but Mother threatened either not to pay or not to sign for sister's loan (I was not a part of it so not sure which) if Sister took THAT course. She would not allow her to take it. Instead, Sister took Fashion Merchandising, which is a bit of a joke. Her other idea was much better. But that's the control freak in my mother. In other ways, she just let us run wild, not caring what the house looked like, smelled like, what we wore, our grades, our behaviors...she never taught us about boundaries or limits or anything. Iin general, she did nothing, but she'd fixate on a few things and get very mean about them.

She could also be nice at times.

The trouble was, I never knew when she was going to "go off" on me. It could be the m iddle of the night or after I'd been out and just walked in the door. It came without warning. I was scared of her. But I also tried to call her in on how goofy our family was, so I got into trouble for that too. I saw it....and I didn't see it.

I needed to start therapy at 23. For quite a while I'd tell my therapists, "Oh, my mother was a GREAT mother. It was all me...I was a terrible kid." Nonsense. She was the adult and was the horrible one. I was just a kid...and it started in my infancy. Yuk. I hate typing about it as I've been really feeling happy lately!!! Just remembering gives me the creeps.

Do you know what an emotional flashback is? It's when you are reminded of a scary emotion you had as a child. It's not a picture flashback, like war vets have, but it is scary and certain people may trigger emotional flashbacks, like your sister. My sibs trigger mine.

I think I am the only one of my mother's kids who is not 100% emotionally damaged. My sister seems repelled by men who truly love her and favors abusive men and married men (this disgusts me). But married men are unavailable. Maybe that's the thing with her. My brother has never had a live-in relationship in his entire life. I am happily married 20 years now with four kids whom I am very blessed to have. THIS family, with husband, is my REAL family.

Yes, Cedar! Come back!!!!!

 

[Scent of Cedar *]

Cedar, you still have your daughter and grands there??

We do. It has been such a hard visit. Stolen pain medications, pain, and withdrawal have been the issues of the day all day, every day. We have been limping along trying to do the right things but it has been really hard. Our daughter has been in the beginning phases of withdrawal since she got here, ran out of medicine entirely on the 4th, and has been in intense and increasingly severe withdrawal since.

Then last night, daughter abruptly went into the City.

She found naloxone.

This is a medication given to counter opiate overdose.

Taking the naloxone stopped the withdrawal symptoms.

Our daughter's posture is different. Her eyes are clear. She is out hiking with her children this morning.

We don't know what to think. Last night, D H and I were certain the 10 o'clock news would come on headlining our daughter. We were telling each other that we were not getting her (really nice) car out of impound or going to visit her in jail and etc.

That is the kind of night we had. Other than that I made fried chicken at one grand's request and the other two wouldn't touch it because they are little and only like mac and cheese.

:O)

It felt like the whole nightmare from three summers ago was happening all over again.

Our daughter came home something like four hours later (and that would mean two of those hours were spent driving to and from the City) and she was fine.

And this morning, she is still fine.

This morning, I was making breakfast and commented on how different the energy in the house was and even the seven year old piped up with, "Yeah, Grandma. It feels happy here, this morning."

Suboxone, naloxone, and one other medication that starts with a "B" are opiate agonists. (I think that is the word that means a substance that is preferred by opiate receptors to opiates.) These medications stop the opiate high and are given when there is an opiate overdose and the person is in danger of dying.

Along with the other ten zillion things we have been learning about everything to do with opiates, naloxone used by someone in withdrawal from an opiate addiction stops the symptoms of withdrawal by filling opiate receptors without providing the opiate high (or the opiate pain relief).

It hasn't been 24 hours, yet. Naloxone has a peak effect of 30 to 81 minutes.

I will keep you posted.

You cannot imagine how rough this visit has been.

Cedar

 

[Lioness]

We do. It has been such a hard visit. Stolen pain medications, pain, and withdrawal have been the issues of the day all day, every day. We have been limping along trying to do the right things but it has been really hard. Our daughter has been in the beginning phases of withdrawal since she got here, ran out of medicine entirely on the 4th, and has been in intense and increasingly severe withdrawal since.

Then last night, daughter abruptly went into the City.

She found naloxone.

This is a medication given to counter opiate overdose.

Taking the naloxone stopped the withdrawal symptoms.

Our daughter's posture is different. Her eyes are clear. She is out hiking with her children this morning.

We don't know what to think. Last night, D H and I were certain the 10 o'clock news would come on headlining our daughter. We were telling each other that we were not getting her (really nice) car out of impound or going to visit her in jail and etc.

That is the kind of night we had. Other than that I made fried chicken at one grand's request and the other two wouldn't touch it because they are little and only like mac and cheese.

:O)

It felt like the whole nightmare from three summers ago was happening all over again.

Our daughter came home something like four hours later (and that would mean two of those hours were spent driving to and from the City) and she was fine.

And this morning, she is still fine.

This morning, I was making breakfast and commented on how different the energy in the house was and even the seven year old piped up with, "Yeah, Grandma. It feels happy here, this morning."

Suboxone, naloxone, and one other medication that starts with a "B" are opiate agonists. (I think that is the word that means a substance that is preferred by opiate receptors to opiates.) These medications stop the opiate high and are given when there is an opiate overdose and the person is in danger of dying.

Along with the other ten zillion things we have been learning about everything to do with opiates, naloxone used by someone in withdrawal from an opiate addiction stops the symptoms of withdrawal by filling opiate receptors without providing the opiate high (or the opiate pain relief).

It hasn't been 24 hours, yet. Naloxone has a peak effect of 30 to 81 minutes.

I will keep you posted.

You cannot imagine how rough this visit has been.

Cedar

Oh Cedar. No wonder we have been missing you. You have had so much to contend with. I'm thinking of you and wish you strength and lots of hugs. Enjoy the grandchildren.

 

[BusynMember]

I read about Naloxone in a true story about a heroin addict who quit. She used it. It's supposed to really do the trick so good on your daughter and crossing everything I can cross for her to stay on that medication. Sounds like you are getting a workout, but so nice always to see the grands. Daughter sounds like she is tryng...it's GOOD!!!! You are holding up like a soldier and I am happy for you because it must be nice to have them with you, even if it is also partly hard...I mean, been there, you know? Your daughter is so smart with so much creativity and potential. Cheering big time for her.

On the other hand, I believe it has been rough for you. I also know you will give it your all and come out stronger.

We miss you here (I'm sure I speak for everyone who reads this thread). You add so much to the thread. Your posts are so darn good.

Post when you can and know that I'm sure all of us are with you. And try to relax (easier said than done, I know).

Cyber-hugs from me!!!

 

[Copabanana]

Hi Cedar

This is what I found about these medications on Google:

Suboxone seems to be a brand name for a medication that consists of Buprenorphine and Naloxone.

"Buprenorphine alone is usually used for the first 2 days after you have stopped all other narcotics. It is usually given in your doctor's office. Your doctor will then switch you to this combination buprenorphine/naloxone medication for maintenance treatment. The combination with naloxone works the same way as buprenorphine alone to prevent withdrawal symptoms...."

These medications fill opioid receptors accustomed to opiates to quell the symptoms of withdrawal. Or it seems that they can be used as an alternative to opiates, as they have a similar, less potent effect.

If your daughter were on a prescribed treatment would she not have come with sufficient medication?

These medications stop the opiate high and are given when there is an opiate overdose and the person is in danger of dying.

The suboxone seems to be given instead of an opiate, to fill the opiate receptors that are accustomed to and want an opiate. While Naloxone can be used to reverse opiate overdose it is included in Suboxone to discourage misuse, to take away the buzz and therefore discourage misuse.

Stolen pain medications, pain, and withdrawal have been the issues of the day all day, every day.

We have been limping along trying to do the right things but it has been really hard.

How can anybody except a treatment center do the right thing? Of course it has been really hard. It is impossible.

Cedar, can you and D H handle opiate withdrawal? Should you?

No parent would be equipped to deal with this. Have you and D H thought about ending the visit? The children know the reality of their lives. They may not like it or be served by it but they know it. To tell the truth and to name the reality of things, and to act accordingly can sometimes be the way to go.

We are here with you, Cedar. As you have always been here for us.

COPA