Homework battles- need help! (vent included)

[Adrift]

Here are two things that worked for us in the first grade and continue to work in the 7th.

1. Intially we actually paid him to do homework. It was his job! I think he got $3 on Friday if he did his work all week. It's controversial and felt weird but it WORKED. He is now almost 13 and consistently does a great job with his homework. No pay.

2. We let him decide when to do it according to the following rule. No screens (TV, computer, gameboy) after supper until the homework is done. We also sat with him and continue to sit with him. We help him less and less. He does and amazing job.

This worked for us, it certainly might not work for all kids. Sometimes it's still awful but pretty great 80% of the time. Good luck, it's a tough one. I think homework in the first grade is rediculous anyway!!

 

[BusynMember]

Kathy...I don't know how to explain this. Why would my son take higher level mathematics? We are happy that he is doing well with math for life. Each child is different and for Lucas, who doesn't understand that taking a shower is necessary for school and work, THAT is our priority, not higher level math. For his life, he won't need it. Again, that's why I talk to his Special Education teacher for his IEP. He DOES have homework, but he is allowed to do it in school. His IEP is on HIS level, even though he is mainstreamed. All the teachers pretty much have him doing the same work as his peers, but he can get special help if he needs it. My goal for my son is as much independence as he can have--the requires he understand the basics of life--paying rent on time, bathing, hopefully one day learning to drive etc. THAT is why I say you can't make a blanket statement--calculus would not mean much in his life. He has improved TONS, but his life path is going to be different than college level students who will likely have no trouble navigating the world.
My daughter is only in sixth grade. She is doing great in math. She does her homework after school in the resource room so that she can ask for help if she needs it. She HAS homework, but would rather stay after school than bring in home. Her teachers are reporting she is going great in her mainstream classes. She got all A's and B's and one C (reading, which is her biggest problem).
Now my older two boys were gifted. They came home, aced their homework and are very successful adults. One son even forego college and is still extremely successful in the computer field and, at age thirty, is already a millionaire. We call him our "Bill Gates." The other is a Regional Sales Manager and is doing really well too, taking online classes to increase his schooling. My third grown child had severe dyslexia, but she went to Beauty School. She never took advanced mathematics, but she is successful in her own right. Each child is different. Even college isn't necessary for all kids, as my older son has shown. I'm not a new mom. I have three successful grown kids, so I'm pretty comfortable with my instincts about my children. Homework is very important to some kids. It isn't to all of them. And homework battles really wear on the family unit. To me, the most important thing for a child's success is a stable home, not one where a child screams and yells until bedtime. BUT each parent has to make his own call. I made mine and I'm very happy with how my kids have done in real life, and my oldest two kids are thirty years old, married and doin' great. I think some teachers load unecessary homework on the children, which go beyond cementing the skills they have been taught in school. I don't remember having homework until fourth grade, and I don't like first grade homework. JMO

 

[skeeter]

We've had numerous (and continue to have) problems with homework with NL.

Most of the problem is his ADD. Think of what typically needs to be involved for successful homework.
1. Student must hear the assignment given.
2. Student must remember to bring home the necessary equipment to do the homework.
3. Student must do the homework (we rarely have a problem with this one).
4. Student must remember to put homework back into backpack.
5. Homework must make it back to school.
6. Homework must be handed in.

The process can fall through at any point in the above.

Add in that he is also highly gifted, and if it's rote work that he already has grasped the concept of, his mind will wander while he's trying to do it and it will take hours to complete.

I have no answers. We've tried Franklin planners (he forgot to write the homework in it). We've tried a voice recorder (he lost it). We've tried having him email me his homework, printing out the list, and check it before he came home (worked the best but no longer an option).
He missed handing in 2 English assignments so far this year. I know he did them - I printed them off for him. Somehow step 4, 5 or 6 above fell through.

Penalties don't work. Getting a zero doesn't work (although I've ALWAYS left that option, and even insisted on it, up to the teacher). Bribery, support, etc. - none of it works for the long term.

I hope you can find the one thing that "clicks" for your kid. With my older son, for some reason, a Franklin Planner DID click - he never missed homework after we implimented it.

 

[Kathy813]

Actually, MWM, that was my point. Your son does not need to do homework because he is not in the type of classes that require homework to be successful. You are absolutely right ~ not all children will go to college and need higher level mathematics.

But to condemn homework as unncessary for all children based on your child's disorder and capabilities is misleading CD members who have children that can and will succeed in a college prep curriculum. Certainly at six you don't want the mom who started this thread to decide that her child is not capable of going to college someday and therefore give up on homework at this early age.

I am always amazed at how many parents think it is great that their child spends hours and hours at football, softball, soccer, piano, and violin practice because they understand that practice is necessary to build skills but don't think practice is necessary when it comes to schoolwork.

~Kathy

 

[navineja]

Seems like I started on a touchy subject! I can see valid points in the various posts. I must agree that there are those children that homework is of no or little value to, that learning the life skills that most of us take for granted is enough of a struggle without adding to it. In N's case, though, she has no Learning Disability (LD) or diagnosis that interferes with her ability to comprehend or accomplish the work, except for the ODD that moves her to refuse. I do realize that our ODDs do not want to be that way, that to them it just seems "reasonable" if you will, but somehow as the parent, it is essential to get across to them that it is not reasonable and they cannot continue on that course. I know that somehow I can find the "money" (as Rosemond terms it) that will motivate her to do the work cooperatively. There is something out there that will click with her and help her see that this is in her best interests. This takes a lot though, since both N and J are very stubborn. (Their therapists have all said that they have rarely seen 2 more strong-willed children!)
I hadn't considered the thought re: the teacher seeing her work uncorrected as a beneficial thing. After the break, I will discuss this with the teacher. She is aware of the problem, as I have N explain to her each time exactly why the work is not done. (The teacher is astounded at the problem, since N does so well on her work at school.) Perhaps together we can eliminate my role in this (since most of N's anger is directed at me- isn't that usually Mom's role though for these kids?).
Skeeter- I like your breakdown of the rules for successful homework. All aspects of that are followed well by N except #3, which of course is the one that you had no problem with .
I will try the things suggested, but TIA for any others you may come up with, as I always like to have my bag of tricks very full.

 

[tammyjh]

Another thing that was a problem with my difficult child and her homework was that if it wasn't finished at night (even when we spent from the time she got home until the time she went to bed) was to stay in for recess. For her, it was not a very good consequence because she didn't want to go out for recess because she has extremely poor social skills and hated trying to fit in with the other kids. The teacher became upset because someone had to be in with daughter for the recesses that she missed. This was in 5th grade and thats when we started changing the curriculum around a bit...starting with- math. Eventually, as I mentioned, we dropped her down to Special Education by 8th grade because she just couldn't keep up. She's similar to what MWM mentioned about her difficult child. Life skills is what she really needs. She needs to learn to make change, balance a checkbook, basic hygeine, etc...

I'm not against homework for all kids. My two easy child's are in 1st and 2nd grade and they both have homework. They whine about about having to get started but usually can get it done and done correctly quite quickly. What I don't like is having to deal with children who are spending most nights after school crying, tantruming, and stressing about schoolwork...in the early elem grades. I dont' feel its good for their emotional well being and can really ruin their future school years. Not to say I would cut homework out at the first sign of them having an issue with it but after trying some different tactics and coming out with the same results, I would look at discontinuing homework as a viable option. At least for a while.

 

[Debbie MA]

Kathy, can you provide references for the studies you mention? It would be interesting to read them although my opinion probably won’t be swayed. What is the saying about lies, d***n lies and statistics? It is always interesting to me to learn the backgrounds of individual researchers because I think many of them will find whatever they are looking for and statistics are slippery things.

I think homework gives some kids an unfair advantage over other kids. Some kids have issues like the ones Skeeter lists. Some have far greater resources at home to get the work done – computers and even paper and pencils aren’t found in all homes. Some parents are more capable of helping with homework. Some kids have parents that help with homework and some don’t. Some kids need to work after school and in the evening and some don’t. How does a teacher even know if the work was done by the child or copied from someone else or even done by a parent (and I have seen kids get full credit for work basically completed by parents)? Some kids just need a break and deserve credit for keeping themselves together throughout an entire school day. As much as I love my job I know that when I come home from work the last thing I want to do is more of the same and I would more than likely dig in my heels if told I needed to complete two more hours of “practice work.” Homework and homework battles interfere with family time, family harmony and with time spent learning things not taught in school.

I think schools are over-focused on general learning where everyone needs to learn the same things. It makes more sense to me to allow kids to find their passions, what they really care about and want to learn about. That’s where you find real learning taking place. Sure, everyone should be able to do basic math. We all need to know how much change we should get back at the store and we all need to pay bills. We all need to be able to put a sentence together. Beyond that, why learn things like high level math if we have absolutely no interest? We are not all meant to be mathematicians, scientists or computer programmers or even to attend college.

I have taken my experiences raising my older kids and combined that with what I have read and learned while raising a severely bipolar kid (who hasn’t had a BiPolar (BP) episode in two years or a rage in 3 plus years!) and I think that my youngest has benefited although it hasn’t been too late for the others. What is important above all in our house is the love and respect we feel for each other. In the end it is our relationships that matter most. My children never leave the house without a call of “love you” to me wherever I am in the house. They smile a lot and we have great conversations. Ross Greene has been a wonderful teacher as has Alfie Kohn and others. Alfie Kohn has made me ask myself what it is I want for my children and if the way I relate to them helps me to achieve those goals. My goals for my children are that they have healthy and fulfilling relationships and that as adults they find work that sustains them and that they are passionate about. I want them to treat others with dignity and to expect to be treated with dignity in return. I want them to be excited about learning, especially the things that *they* want to learn. Daily homework battles do nothing to further my goals.

 

[Kathy813]

Debbie ~ I have the studies referenced on my school computer but we are currently on winter break. I'll look for them when I get back to school.

ETA: A very quick google search brought up these studies:

Homework may have nonacademic benefits. Certain nonacademic benefits of homework have been shown, especially for younger students. Indeed, some primary-level teachers may assign homework for such benefits, which include learning the importance of responsibility, managing time, developing study habits, and staying with a task until it is completed (Cooper, Robinson and Patall 2006; Corno and Xu 2004; Johnson and Pontius 1989; Warton 2001).

The difference in test scores and grades between students who do more homework and those who do less increases as children move up through the grades. (Easton, J. and A. Bennett)
Easton, J. and A. Bennett (1990). "Achievement Effects of Homework in Sixth Grade Classrooms." Paper presented at the Annual Meeting of the American Educational Research Association. 320 675.

There are many more that you can find searching the Internet.

I want you to know that I understand your point of view and if it has worked for you and your family I think that is great. My problem with saying, "Well, my child has no interest in math now so there is no need for him to study algebra or geometry" is that who knows what interests they may develop later?

If you had told me that I was going to end up being a math teacher when I was in high school, I would have told you that you were crazy. I was not an especially great math student in high school and hated geometry with a passion.

It wasn't until college that the light bulb turned on and I realized that I really was good in math. If I hadn't have received a good foundation in high school despite the fact that I would have told you that I had no interest in teaching mathematics, I wouldn't have been able to develop my passion.

I've even helped some CD board members with algebra when they found that they had to take an algebra class when they went back to school. You never know when you may need it.

in my humble opinion, that's what high school is supposed to be ~ a place where you get a good foundation and general education so you can specialize later in whatever interests you whether it is in college, the military, or the workplace.

This is obviously a touchy subject on the board and always has been. Everyone must do what's best for their family. I just hate to see blanket statements against the value of homework when I see the opposite every single day.

~Kathy

 

[skeeter]

Kathy - I hope by my "list" of problems we've had with NL, you didn't think I was saying homework isn't important. I know it is.

What I really think our schools (and I'm generalizing here) fall short on is teaching kids how to STUDY. And, consequently, how to learn.

Neither of my kids learned how to study, they were just given assignments. Now, I will admit that most people have an ideal way to learn, and each must find that ideal way. But my kids have been assigned all the usual things - long term papers or projects, memory work, book reports, class finals, etc. For almost all of these, they were not taught the "tools" to be able to approach these in a way that made sense.

If kids aren't taught HOW to learn, we are short selling them. I read recently that most people have to "re-invent" their jobs on approximately a five year rotation. If someone doesn't know how to continue to learn, they will paint themselves into a corner sooner or later.

I guess what I'm saying is homework shouldn't JUST be about whatever subject (math, science, etc.) it's assigned in, but also in teaching a person HOW to continue to learn their whole life.

 

[Kathy813]

Skeeter ~ I didn't take it that way at all. I agree with you 100% about the importance of study skills and the value of becoming a life-long learner.

During my master's degree program, I was introduced to a field of study called "Habits of Mind." The authors, Costa and Kallick, identify the following areas as crucial to success in life:

The 16 Habits of Mind identified by Costa and Kallick include:

Persisting

Thinking and communicating with clarity and precision

Managing impulsivity

Gathering data through all senses

Listening with understanding and empathy

Creating, imagining, innovating

Thinking flexibly

Responding with wonderment and awe

Thinking about thinking (metacognition)

Taking responsible risks

Striving for accuracy

Finding humor

Questioning and posing problems

Thinking interdependently

Applying past knowledge to new situations

Remaining open to continuous learning

Costa and Kallick that these skills must be taught in addition to the core subjects. You can look them up on the Internet if you are interested in pursuing this topic further.

There is also a Youtube presentation developed by a teacher about the changing world our children will live in. It is absolutely amazing.

Did You Know?

To me, the rapidly changing technology and the changes it will bring makes it even more important that students get a good foundation in all core subjects and the above habits of mind as we don't know what fields of study or occupations the future may bring.

~Kathy

 

[Marguerite]

Different strokes for different folks. Depending on our circumstances as well as how we learn, taking into account other issues such as the need for medications to be on board if we are to focus sufficiently to benefit - homework can be beneficial, or it can be a huge, pointless burden.

There are ways, and there are ways...

For any of my kids needing stimulant medications in order to focus sufficiently, homework after school hours was generally a disaster. They were ill-equipped to stay on task, to functionally benefit from what they did (let alone actually produce anything respectable!). easy child 2/difficult child 2 wasn't too bad, but she tended to do her homework after taking medications, on her way to school (she had two hours' travel plus waiting time). Or on weekends, during the day, when medicated.

In my case - I was shocking with homework. No ADD in any way, I could do the work fast and easily but had little time to do it because I would get home from school to a mother who needed my help. There were times when she was in hospital and I had to get dinner for everyone (as well as breakfast for my father in the mornings, following his Phinneas Fogg strict regime). So like my daughter, I did the bare essential paperwork often at school in the mornings, or on the way to school. Sometimes while on the way home. With senior high school most of the required work was study, which I never had a problem with - I would just read my texts cover to cover. I don't remember doing homework then, although I know others did. I do remember reading a lot of texts, purely for pleasure, often last thing at night. I passed with high marks.
Basically, my methods and not doing homework worked for me.

easy child did homework - a lot. I remember a few late night/early morning tantrums when an essay she's been working on for hours was lost because the computer crashed and she hadn't done a save. She also did well.

It seems the gist of all this - homework is a good thing to do, providing it fits in with the way that particular person learns and is done in a way that supports that learning method and capability. Where it becomes a problem is when nothing is learned in the process, perhaps because the child is simply incapable of maintaining focus at the time of day normally available for homework, or because the homework has been set in either too great a quantity, or too much new work and not enough revision set in the homework. I deplore the habit of some teachers to use homework to learn large amounts of new work. Such learning is unsupported and unsupervised, often turns out to be ineffective and leading to big gaps in knowledge. easy child especially experienced this; easy child 2/difficult child 2 and difficult child 1 also but to a lesser extent.

Our kids were, for a time, unable to do homework during the week (due to travel times etc). The school accommodated this (it was a common problem for a lot of students) so instead of setting regular small amounts of homework they would set larger projects to be done over weekends.

As long as some acknowledgement is given to the need for kids to have free time, and the problems some kids have (due to their disability as well as due to a difficult home situation), then homework needn't be the battle it is. But I still feel that homework is the big issue it is because in many cases, TOO MUCH is expected of homework as a teaching toil, a revision tool and a means to justify the subject.

Homework is directed, which can mean a child has to do it regardless, when maybe they have less need in that subject and more in another and would have benefited more from simply learning to attack the academic areas giving them the most trouble. When we go to uni we have to learn to study in that way; how much better would it be if, instead of homework assigned on a regular basis, we were instead taught to focus in and work on our most troubling areas academically?

Homework is directed; study is generally undirected. "I am already familiar with the comparative parasitology, I can leave that bit and instead focus on respiratory pigments in crustaceans where I'm a bit rusty."

Schools have requirements. If you have a child who is severely clashing with the ethos of homework and you can see why (and it isn't an easy one to solve) then you need to talk to the school to find a better way. Always keep the main aim in focus - the aim is for the child to learn. If you can sort things out with the school so you can find a way to support the school's education process AND teach your child to work on his own as well - then great. But sometimes this means doing things differently to what is uniformly expected.

Marg

 

[susiestar]

I fully agree that appropriate, thoughtfully assigned homework is crucial to the learning process. It often helps to set a routine early in a child's life regarding homework.

Many kids today are in a number of after school activities. I find limiting this to ONE per child helps with the homework. We have limited time with our children after school before bedtime. In the elementary levels it is very difficult for my children (all fully expected to go to college, and to take college prep courses) to be involved in multiple after school activities AND to get the homework done. There simply isn't time.

So we PRIORITIZE. Medication, therapy and stability so the child CAN be a contributing member of society are the highest priority. School and learning are the children's next highest priority. Time with friends, TV time, computer game/internet/nonschool screen time is lower.

With difficult child homework was such a battle it resulted in him becoming physically violent when asked what his homework assignments were. We have NO idea why he reacted this way, but found he had to leave our home. I simply would not tolerate physical violence.

With Jess it takes being around to answer questions, and having ALL fun books/distractions put away. We still have issues over content and what completeness is, but we are working well.

With thank you, we have to have a pretty set routine after school or his anxiety is so great he falls apart. He is 8, and having him dissolve into a weeping mass of anxiety and self-doubt is just not a good thing. We talked WITH him to find out what routine would work. Together we decided after school he should have a snack (with protein) and then do homework. He does any assignments, then does 30 minutes of reading. As long as we stick with the routine he is OK.

With sports it can be hard to get practices in, but homework/school has to come first. If school isn't done, then they cannot participate.

This is what works for us. I do not think a debate over homework is much help. We ALL have to do what we think is best for our children. I have seen some homework assignments that are thoughtfully given and some that are ridiculous given the child's age/grade. We all probably have. But homework is a fact of life, just as some jobs are not strictly 8 to 5. My husband has to check his email at home, even on holidays, and sometimes has to bring work home to meet a deadline. It is part of the job, like homework is part of the child's job of school.

Hope this helps.

Susie