Honest opinion about wiping and reaction...

Discussion in 'General Parenting' started by totoro, Sep 24, 2007.

  1. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    I am really tired... LOL

    So N was not potty trained when she entered this Montessori program... Miss M, said "No problem" So N has been doing really well, using the potty trying to do it by herself...
    But I always check and make sure she wiped well, and at 3 she can't really wipe her
    b u t t , which I though was slightly normal??? So I pick her up today and she is excited, first time she has gone poop at school!!! I ask her in the car if Miss M helped her and she says NO... We get home and yep... poop all over.

    So I just called her, she made me feel like N was a freak, "Really!, well I have never had that problem with any of the 3 yo's, but then again usually they are all potty trained when they start" (like she was doing me some favor) I explained that all of K's pre-schools helped her... and all of my friends help their kids wipe past 3... she was BLOWN away, "Really, I have not had that experience... I would be happy to help her but I just assumed she could do it on her own"
    I was like, well she couldn't use the potty when she started, why would she be able to wipe???
    She agreed to help, but used this demeaning tone, and sugary voice... agreable but with that tone!!! Know what I mean????
    She poop poop's any talk that N has issues... "Oh she is just working you" "Boy has she got your number" things like that... I am trying to not be defensive Mom here but with my "pleasant" week... I am on edge...

    2nd honest one: So K's teacher calls... she wet her pants today.. at the end of the day. SO I show up K is really down, Miss B just escorts the rest of the class out to leave, So I get K changed amd we are leaving and Miss B says "It was no big deal" I said, "Oh I hope it isn't her new medications affecting her" Miss B says oh it was nothing a couple of kids had to go in a rush today... smile all sweetly and we leave...
    I don't know why it bothered me... she hasn't aknowledged K's issues at all and keeps saying she is doing fine, which is great... but she kind of glazes over if I bring something up at all... like school refusal or the medications. Even if she had said "Oh I hope not" It would have made me feel a little better...

    Am I just asking for too much (yes) is this reality... can all 3yo's wipe their b u t t's except mine???? I still have to help K...

  2. wakeupcall

    wakeupcall Well-Known Member

    I don't know about ALL three-year-olds, but my difficult child is almost TWELVE and still has a problem wiping!!! No kidding...

    On another note, my granddaughter will be four in a couple of weeks and my daughter still checks her and often has to REdo for her. I wouldn't worry about it, truly.
  3. mattsmum

    mattsmum New Member

    I agree with you...absolutely normal for a 3-year-old. I would go with my gut on this one.
  4. jannie

    jannie trying to survive....

    Both of my kids needed support/checks until age 4 or so.....and actually my 10 year old still leaves streaks now and again ~!!!!
  5. smallworld

    smallworld Moderator

    T, I did the wiping for a very long time. I can't remember exactly when I stopped, but it wasn't THAT long ago, and my youngest is 9. I think N's teacher is off base.

    In terms of K's teacher, I don't know how old she is or what her experience is, but I have found that a lot of teachers just have never really dealt with kids like ours. And I hate to say it, but that glazed look may in fact be that they just don't get it (or think it's weird that parents put their kids on medications at such a young age). Having said that, I don't think it's all that uncomon for a kindergartner to have an accident now and then.
  6. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat


    The Montessori teacher was talking down her nose at you, and no, most 3YO have trouble wiping. I have to spot check Tink at almost 7 every now & again. She sounded very condescending.

    I don't think the other teacher was trying to be difficult. I think your feeling were still raw from the first teacher's inconsiderate remarks. And rightly so. And since the discussion was also about, ya know, bodily functions...it brought up (ahem) crappy feelings...
  7. crazymama30

    crazymama30 Active Member

    My son is 9 and still does a poor job, but easy child did well from 6yrs old on up.
  8. ck1

    ck1 New Member

    I agree that the teacher was definitely wrong and that a newly potty trained child needs help wiping. Especially girls because if they don't wipe properly they can end up with a horrible UT infection that some doctors will hospitalize them for!

    in my opinion you are very right to take this issue seriously. Your childs good health is at risk if she isn't properly assisted and/or checked and they said this wouldn't be a problem when they were asked!
  9. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Another reason to dislike Montesorri schools. rofl Sorry, I had major issues with mine because of the lack of structure. My daughter did great there but learned absolutely nothing. She could do what she wanted and learning was not what she wanted. So, they had no problems and acted like the problem was me. That being said, the teacher was dead wrong and I bet more than one parent has asked their child be checked or be helped (or just given up and taken care of it at home).

    As to the second teacher, I agree that you were probably just sensitive because of the first incident.
  10. neednewtechnique

    neednewtechnique New Member

    Mine I think both stopped needing help somewhere in the 3 year old timeframe, but at the same time, mine were both potty trained at 18 months, so that was a year and a half to learn. The process we used was, when they first started potty training, I did it for them. After a while, I let them do it first, then I would go and do it again just to make sure. Then after another little while, I let them do it and just checked, and if they had problems, would help, then finally after that if they had problems they re-did it themselves, and finally we were to the stage where all I had to do was check. Once we went through several months of them sucessfully getting it on the first try, I stepped out and gave them their privacy in the restroom. My youngest is three now and won't even let me in the bathroom while she is going anymore.

    Also, a little tip if you have a child who has problems getting clean, instead of regular toilet paper, my kids still use baby wipes. They get the ones with aloe and they both prefer that over regular toilet paper, plus the moisture helps them get things cleaner. You can buy regular wipes, or those new Kandoo popups that come in the purple and lime green container.

    This works GREAT for them, plus with sensory issues, the wipes feel much "softer" in that area than dry irritating toilet paper.
  11. Wiped Out

    Wiped Out Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I don't think it's all that unusual. easy child was trained so early that she probably didn't need help at that age. difficult child still could probably use help but refuses and I figure at this age (10) that is fine. I'm sorry the teacher was so rude!
  12. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Thanks everyone-
    K has had 2 Urinary Tract Infection (UTI)'s and we had to have ultra-sounds done on her... so I am leary about the wiping... We have wipes in all of our bathrooms have ever since K was very little, they use both.
    I don't mind any of it, but the idea that she is doing me a favor by letting N in when she was not potty trained irked me a bit, either you do or you don't??? It says you do in your hand book!?!?! And the attitude... like I am automatically wrong... about everything.

    As for K- she has never had an accident in school in almost 3 years. She has some her very first year of pre-school. She would hold it or started using the potty at 4, from that point on she has been perfect in school.
    Even at home she has had a couple of close calls, leaks, or started to go right at the toilet or in her sleep a couple of times. This was just sitting on the floor, peed her pants and just sat there... very unlike her. I am just documenting it, and not liking it... she never spits either and I have caught her 3 times now in the past couple of days.

    psychiatrist would say, well that is not a side effect of Tenex, but what else could I attribute it to? I am just watching all of these things... with K.
    With N I will keep her in she seems happy, I know how to teach her how to wipe, but this has been less than 2 weeks of her actually wiping!!!
    I am worried also that she is going to clog this ladies toilet!!! oh well if she aint checking it aint my problem!!! You should see how much paper I have caught her using!!!

    She is still dealing with her sensory issues though, which is kind of cute, she thinks she goes sometimes... nothing. She will keep looking down and checking, nothing!!! For both. but she is getting it !!! Much quicker than K did. Sigh
  13. pepperidge

    pepperidge New Member


    Sorry you had to have the discussion about wiping. And that the teacher wasn't more gracious. At my son's first Mont. school the teacher told me not to feed him things in the morning that would make him poop. We didn't stay with that school! We had a much better experience at the next one we wnt to, though.

    On your older daughter's teacher, I guess I would try not to let it get to me that that the teacher seems to be in denial. K teachers in my humble opinion tend to think they know it all, and that parents are the problem. Its pretty universal. Just be glad she isn't meeting you at the door each day with stories about how terrible your child behaved that day and telling you they need drugs immediately.

    My advice for what little its worth--spend your time building up a positive relationship with the principal and the school counselor if there is one--not necessarily discussing your daughter, just let them see you as a helpful, together sort of parent, interested in the school. That way if things deterioriate in the classroom, you will have forged a positive relationship with some of the school personnel that will matter. HOw is the school nurse? If you have one not born in the dark ages, it might worth a heads up discussion with her about your daughter.

    Since you have a teacher that isn't well-versed in serious psychiatric disorders, and isn't amenable, I would just shelve that discussion with her until you really need to have it. I have found even school counselors to be very uninformed. sad but true.

    by the way if your school allows it try to find out as much as you can about the first grade teachers. Often schools let you request a certain type of teacher for your child, and if you do your homework, you can often make the description pretty specific. A good relationship with the principal can't hurt either!

    good luck. how sad we have problems with the people who are in a position to help us and our children. LIke life isn't difficult enough with a difficult child.
  14. Marguerite

    Marguerite Active Member

    Concerning K (because I think we're all in agreement that Montessori teacher was being patronising and unrealistic concerning N) - I'm wondering if the teacher felt a teeny bit guilty at not allowing the kids to get to the loo when they needed to - "Oh, several kids had to go at once" implying K simply ran out of time. So what was the class doing beforehand? If it was doing ANYTHING that kept them out of bathroom range, it could explain it.

    I wouldn't worry about it, honestly - I remember having accidents like this simply because I got caught short, too far from the loo when nature tapped me on the shoulder... and when you're a kid, you still have a fair bit to learn about your body and its signals.

  15. totoro

    totoro Mom? What's a GFG?

    Thanks again!!! Marg and Pepper good thoughts...
    I will look into getting on the staffs good side, I brought in cookies last week!!! I try to always say hello to everyone and seem upbeat!!! We have no nurse but I have met the counselor and he seemed very nice.
    I guess the having an accident in front of her very first friends, freaked me out. She has never had any friends and she has such low self esteem and with her depression I just had this horrible image of how bad they would be to her. But I hope they will forget like most 5 and 6 yo's. She is just so excited to have friends I would hate for something like this to have a negative affect on her. I didn't talk about it at all or bug her. I told her it was OK, just asked her what the teacher did to help her. SO it is over as far as she is concerned I hope.
  16. susiequte

    susiequte New Member

    Our 20 yo difficult child still has this problem!! Last year, when I was doing his laundry I threatened to run his underwear up the neighbor's flagpole if he didn't do a better job of wiping!! He does his own laundry now, but frankly I don't think anything has changed. He can't seem to flush to toilet without being reminded!!
  17. AllStressedOut

    AllStressedOut New Member

    I actually had to ask our prek to not wipe my son at 4. As a difficult child, if you did it for him, he expected you to do it everytime. I was afraid he'd never learn if they kept doing it for him. My easy child daughter will be 4 in a few weeks and she isn't good at wiping, so I still check her and help if needed.

    All of my difficult children still have problems with wiping at 11, 10 and 7. I think it has much to do with how they don't mind being dirty/dishevelled.

    I still think for a 3 year old its normal to not wipe well, easy child or difficult child.

    I think the other teacher just doesn't know how to respond. If they aren't use to that type of info from a parent, they just don't know the right words. She probably thought keeping quiet was the better alternative than to say something that she isn't sure how it will come across.
  18. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Here is my take:

    -3 year olds need help wiping for sure!
    -K's teacher knows something she is not sharing. Like maybe she did not let K go when she first asked, or another kid had messed up the bathroom - something. I would not worry about it. I do not think it was medication related.
  19. Lothlorien

    Lothlorien Active Member Staff Member

    My son, at 4, still needs help. Missy did not, but he does. He does not do a good job at all. Yesterday, he tried to do it himself and he ended up making a mess. Although he washes his hands, all I can say is Thank G-d for the antibacterial lotion. After he was finished washing up I made him use that.

    That lady at Montessori is nuts! Mighty Mouse's preschool does not allow the teachers to wipe (at least not in the four year old class; I'm not sure about the three year olds). They do, however, let you know that the child went and may need to be checked/cleaned when you go to pick him up. This is only a 2 1/2 hour program though. If your child is there all day, they should help them.
  20. SearchingForRainbows

    SearchingForRainbows Active Member

    Although I really don't have much to add, the others have already given you good advice, I thought I'de tell you that both my difficult children were very delayed when it came to wiping. difficult child 1 still doesn't clean himself well. (The evidence is in the hamper daily.) difficult child 2 still has problems wiping. However, difficult child 2 is very developmentally delayed.

    As others have already said, my difficult children use baby wipes instead of t.p. I also leave a bottle of a soapless antibacterial cleanser in the bathroom for them to use after they use regular soap and water. Neither one of my difficult children is very concerned about good hygiene.

    My easy child still needed help at three years old. She also had an "accident" in pre-school when she was four. I agree with you that it isn't a big deal when young children have accidents. I hope you get things resolved at school. WFEN