How can you tell a social drinker from a problem drinker?

[TerryJ2]

I wanted to add something I remembered ... I have a friend who was going through an extremely difficult time with-her difficult child (Aspie) and her in-laws. Her s-i-l is an alcoholic to the point where she was jailed and lost custody of her kids. My friend's husband was always traveling.

At any rate, we drove to an art show in the middle of the day, and my friend had a glass of wine in the car and swallowed the rest of it down just before we left because she didn't want to be drinking and driving. Huh? I was scared to death, but her driving was fine and she was fine.
She did it again twice more. I was all set to sit down and talk to her, but then my life got chaotic and we never had the chance.

I didn't see her for a while. She moved to a different house, had major breast cancer and a dbl mastectomy, and went on antidepressants. She lost 25 lbs and looks fabulous. Her difficult child moved out and lives in another state, her daughter graduated from college, her niece and nephew are in HS and doing well, and she loves her new house.

So it was temporary but scary, and not long-term.
At some point, I'll tell her all of this, in perspective ...

 

[witzend]

Well according to the article I am a problem drinker because I drink more than three drinks in one sitting. I don't agree with it.

It said 3 drinks per sitting, but it also said that it's not any one thing. I think it's more like an Aspergers scale to a certain point. How long is "a sitting"? An hour or four hours? I don't think there's anything wrong with having 3 glasses of wine - or whatever - in an evening. I think most people would be hard pressed to say that was problematic unless it was every single evening, and that was the only thing we looked forward to.

The worst problem drinkers I know and knew are the ones who start the party before the party starts, if you know what I mean. In fact, there was an old friend before we moved whom it was obvious she was on the long downhill skids and had been for decades. 25 and tipsy just isn't the same as 65 and falling down drunk. And that thing where people go from manic drunk to crying mess - bleh!

 

[keista]

Why do men get to have twice as much? IOW if I have a sex change op, I'm not a problem drinker, but as a female I am a problem drinker despite having a larger body mass than an average man. How sexist!

 

[TerryJ2]

Interesting article, Witz. I normally don't like psychiatric Today--I used to subscribe to it and it got way too much into pop culture, and then I quit my subscription when it published a study (not a case study but something that was supposed to show a trend) that only had ONE patient--but this is interesting. Thanks.

 

[BusynMember]

Hi all.

Interesting perspectives.

Terry, I do NOT want to go to drinking parties. I have a problem watching drunk people acting, well, silly...like talking too much about their sex lives (too much information) or coming onto other people's husbands or ending up with a face in the toilet. Since I don't drink, I just wanted to know what others thought. From my way of looking at things, I don't see why anybody would ever want to get drunk and deal with the possible embarassing behaviors and the hangovers and it puzzles me why some people think going out is only fun if one drinks. I'm boring...so is hub...if we go out, it's for coffee

This person I mention has a boyfriend who gets very depressed after he has been drinking and does not remember everything he says when he has been drinking, but he has gone for periods of time without drinking at all. My friend encourages his drinking because she likes to drink. It makes me wonder if both have a problem. But maybe it's me and my bias against drinking (not that I think it's the worst thing...just that I never saw the point).

Also, if we drink, and then get angry at our kids for doing drugs, especially pot, are we being hypocrites? I think about this a lot lately because every time friend tells me she has said/done/acted in a stupid way or her boyfriend has, they have been drinking. I don't think they have ever been together and not drank. Yet when boyfriend's kid was caught with pot, he flipped.

 

[AnnieO]

This person I mention has a boyfriend who gets very depressed after he has been drinking and does not remember everything he says when he has been drinking, but he has gone for periods of time without drinking at all.

One of my BFFs is exactly like this. And - he is also insulin-dependent diabetic. If we had known, years ago, we might have been able to keep him from attempting suicide multiple times. Now that he is on insulin? Well, he doesn't drink much anymore because of the sugar issues, but when he does it doesn't end up like it did way-back-when.

Also, if we drink, and then get angry at our kids for doing drugs, especially pot, are we being hypocrites? I think about this a lot lately because every time friend tells me she has said/done/acted in a stupid way or her boyfriend has, they have been drinking. I don't think they have ever been together and not drank. Yet when boyfriend's kid was caught with pot, he flipped.

That doesn't make YOU a hypocrite. It might with friend or her boyfriend.

 

[Star*]

I are not as think as you drunk I..am,

 

[keista]

Sounds like your friend wants her boyfriend to be codependent. If he's drinking, her drinking isn't a problem, but when he stops drinking her drinking problem becomes obvious. This friend does not sound like *just* a "social drinker" by any definition.

 

[Giulia]

in my humble opinion, to have seen and still see my father, the problem is not much the quantity, but the behavior about a drinking.

For me, a social drinker can once in a while refuse to drink a glass of alcohol when he is with friend (when non alcoholic beverages only are served, the question does not pose). A problem drinker is unable to conceive a time with mates without a glass of alcohol, no matter what are the consequences behind.
A social drinker will not drink before driving, and will accept that someone else says "no drinking before driving". A drinker problem will not accept and will drive even if he has drunk before and unsafe to drive. He will always find a good argument to drink before driving no matter what are the consequences behind.

 

[donna723]

Believe it or not, my ex was the one who would always lecture everybody else about drinking and driving, even though he did it himself every single day! He never went anywhere without that 6-pack next to him on the seat of the car. But he genuinely believed that he was "different" from everybody else, that the alcohol didn't affect him or his driving like it did everybody else! Try arguing with that logic! It's true that because he had drank so much for so long, he could drink enough to have put anybody else under the table before the affects showed on him to the casual observer. Of course, I could always tell. And even though he wasn't staggering around like somebody else might have been who had drank that much, his judgement and reaction time were just as impaired as anyone else's would be. I've seen him get out of the car and weave his way to the front door, still insisting that he was fine to drive, even with the kids in the car ... because he was "different" and it didn't affect him the same way as it did everybody else! And he really believed that! That's why it's so unbelievably dangerous! Once someone like that starts drinking, their judgement goes right out the window!

 

[CrazyinVA]

An interesting discussion. I think the bottom line in many cases is: is drinking causing negative effects in your life.

My mother was an alcoholic. Both my ex husbands were alcoholics. I've dated recovering alcoholics (somehow, I thought that was better because they recognized their problem, but it wasn't... it was awful, in fact). I'm addicted to alcoholics. Each of those relationships was ruined by alcohol, in one way or another. I've finally killed that pattern, and am super aware of problem drinkers now. I recognize them pretty quickly, don't make excuses for them any longer, and avoid them like the plague.

Yet, I like to drink. I even run a beer social group, because I love craft beer (I'm fascinated by the industry). I attend beer tastings and beer festivals often. I am very much a social drinker, though. I have a ton of beer in my fridge, and in my pantry (aging it, I've become a "beer hoarder" since discovering unique beers that age well). But, I rarely drink at home alone. I just don't enjoy it. When I do open one at home alone, half the time I don't finish it, and don't want a 2nd. I'm pretty self aware when I'm drinking socially, and since I'm usually driving myself, I limit my intake to 1 or 2. It's nice to occasionally get a ride/daughter and not have to worry about that but even then, I usually stop when I feel like I've had enough (tipsy but not out of control). It's interesting to see the reaction of some people around me when I say no to one more drink, when I'm not driving. Some (the heavy drinkers bordering on problem drinkers) don't get it.. they think a daughter is license to get blitzed. But when I'm done, I'm done. I'm too old for the "drink to get drunk" mentality, and certainly too old to deal with hangovers and being sick.

So, some might assume I have a "problem" because they know I constantly going to beer tastings, beer dinners, breweries, etc. But I drink a lot less than they realize, despite that. My therapist says I'm the most self-aware person she knows. I analyze myself to death (and believe me I've analyzed this, given my history of alcoholics). She's pretty confident that I'm ok, and I am, too. I'm just a social drinker, and a beer snob.

 

[AnnieO]

Crazy, I think you've hit the nail squarely there. Beer (and wine) tastings are just that - tastings. A tasting means a small mouthful or two, not a whole pint!

As for the "too old" - nah. Some people never get there. I stop even when I have a daughter, too - because the negative side effects will end up outweighing the positive ones.

The way you've described it sounds very much like you're fine. Besides, I always thought of tastings as more of a social event... LOL... So I guess that does make you a "social drinker"!

 

[TerryJ2]

MWM, drinking is legal. Drugs are not.

In regard to the boyfriend who reacts poorly to alcohol and his girlfriend wants him to drink with-her, she is being unreasonable and immature. He can go out with-her and have a Coke if he wants to. Neither one is doing the other any favors. My husband rarely drinks and it's not as much fun for me to have a glass of wine if he won't even taste it, but it's our individual decisions whether we drink or not, not because the other is pushing the other into it.
Hmm. I'm not liking that boyfriend/girlfriend relationship ...

And that thing where people go from manic drunk to crying mess - bleh!
This would be my mom ...
RIP

 

[BusynMember]

I don't know anyone who has a more positive life because they drink. Is there such a thing?

I mean, I don't care if people drink...it's legal...but I don't think it's any less dangerous than pot. That's why I said it's hypocritical to drink yourself drunk every night then flip out when a kid tries pot. I did try pot. I didn't use it a lot, but it had much less an effect on me than alcohol does.

I am worried about friend and her boyfriend. She is somebody close to me. She allows her boyfriend to drink and drive because she doesn't want to get a DUI, but he could kill her. Also, I don't want to tell her that I think this boyfriend has a drinking problem unless other people who drink think he has one. It's not really my business. But I worry and I care. Friend can always remember what she says after drinking, even if she probably would not have said it whi le sober. But her boyfriend doesn't remember a good deal of what he says when he has drunk. Is the "forgetting" sort of the red flag?

 

[AnnieO]

That's a good question, and I would surmise that it has more to do with the individual's brain & memory than the amount of alcohol they consumed and whether or not they are drunk.

I know people that can have a small amount of alcohol - say 3 mixed drinks - with dinner and over the course of several hours - who have blank spots in their memories. (Hell, I know people who don't have to drink to have those blank spots.) I know others that can drink a pro linebacker under the table and remember every detail.

When I'm drunk I tend to say things best left unsaid. One of the reasons I don't GET drunk. I do NOT like my own lack of control over my words and actions. But - only ONCE have I been so far gone I have blank spots in my memory. And I don't think that was the alcohol - I think it was the situation.

The fact that she allows boyfriend to drink and drive is absolutely TERRIFYING. Her reason is even more so - NEITHER of them should drink and drive. That, to me, is the flag - and it's not just red, it's BLOOD RED.

 

[keista]

MWM, I'd be more concerned about your friend than her boyfriend. REALLY Because, even if he stops drinking, she'll still be drinking excessively. If she leaves him or he leaves her, she'll probably just find herself someone just as co-dependent. by the way, ain't she sweet to put boyfriend at risk for the DUI. NICE.

Unfortunately, there is really nothing you can do about it. If you bring it up in conversation it could be a friendship-breaker.

 

[BusynMember]

Well, thanks to all.

I am worried more about friend. I don't know boyfriend, just hear about him. I am terrified that she drives with him while he is drunk. I am terrified that he is not worried about driving drunk. While I have no problem if somebody drinks, I do have a big problem with those who put others at risk by driving while intoxicated. I am close to telling her that I don't want to talk about it anymore because it scares me. I have known her a long time. Until she got a divorce after so many years of marriage, she didn't really drink much at all so this is throwing me for a loop.

Safety is my biggest concern, but so is the possibility that she is developing a problem...guess I'd better keep my mouth shut though. Doesn't seem to be any consensus here, and I don't have any experience myself.

Thanks again!!!

 

[InsaneCdn]

It's one of those fine lines in life... if it isn't "our" problem, we may be able to recognize that there is a problem, but be powerless to do anything about it... and THAT just weighs heavy.

 

[TerryJ2]

Oh my, MWM! That's so scary!
I can only hope that he gets pulled over before something tragic happens.

 

[DammitJanet]

My dad was from the era of social drinkers. They carried these little portable bars with them when they went out of town. It held a pint of liquor, a shaker, a shot glass and a small glass to drink out of. My dads was lined with red felt and had two small drawers at the bottom and folded out sort of like two doors at the top with a latch. He always took gin and tonic with him...lol. He had to travel quite a bit and he would have one drink about an hour after he got home from work. Just one.

Years later when I met Tony and we started going up to see my dad he would always ask Tony if he would like a drink. Tony always declined. It was sort of funny. About the first or second year we went up there we took him some "official" Indian Moonshine. My dad was absolutely in awe...lol. He kept that quart jar in his liquor cabinet for all these years and would offer people just a taste of his moonshine. They got a spoonful. LMAO. He never did drink much of it. After all the probably 26 years he had it, that quart jar was still at least 2/3rds full. My dad had a real thing about Tony being Indian. He was real proud of that.