how to deal with other family members that enable

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by jmama45, Jan 2, 2008.

  1. jmama45

    jmama45 New Member

    My other posts asked how to prepare for difficult child to come out of treatment...

    I understand that he needs to ask for support and that I shouldn't offer him to come here. And trust me, I am not looking for him to come here and to be honest am selfishly and not wanting to deal with it at that level. Wishing a miracle place comes to him :whew:

    But now I found out that his father's wife is all up into my difficult child's life. Background is he went there at 17 when we kicked him out because he was smoking weed and breaking rules. This was after we helped him get into a private school because he got expelled for weed. He did great for a while, but when we saw him getting into the bad stuff again, we had to kick him out. It was a strain on my marriage and my daughter then 8. So after he wore out his welcome at all his friends, he went to live with his father. There he quit school altogther in 12th grade with 2 classes left, he found new friends and got into worse trouble. He had the freedom to do as he wanted, just what he didnt have here. They had no rules and look what happend! He moved in with a girl and acted like it was all good. When they broke up, he stayed with these new friends- BAD. Met his now girlfriend, moved in with her and had a baby. He was still trying to put on a great little life, till the girlfriend filled me right before this arrest and treatment. I saw it all coming but had NO idea he was using hard drugs!

    Ok, so now girlfriend tells me that his father's wife called her and told her she made a call to someone her brother knows that is recovered and holds meeting in THEIR town. She said this guy is willing to sponser my difficult child, get him to meetings and give him a job at his company!! I am so mad I could scream! SHe and his father have NEVER worked with me, only behind my back. I have tried for 23 years to work with them, and always get no where. (I broke up with his father (never married YAY!) when I was 18 and difficult child was 3 months old, difficult child never knew us as a couple and didn't go through any bad time, he just always had us seperatly.) When his father took him in, we told him what my son was up to here and that he needed to watch out for drug use and all that. Asked him to call us and tell us what is going on. That was 6 years ago, never heard from him again. I actually put my bad feelings aside a month before this happened, when I first heard of difficult child getting into trouble. I decided I would do what is best for my difficult child and try again to work with his father to be on the same page and all that. I got the wife who said "he is sleeping" ummm I was thinking... I havent called in 6 years, ya think it might be important that I am calling??? Anyway, asked him to call me back. No call for 4 days. Called again and got the machine and left a message. No call back ever. Gave up.

    Now this! She is going to mess up my son's recovery by enabling him! Giving him a sponser??? What is she thinking? He needs to do all these things for himself. Ya give him the number as an option, but who is she to hand him a sponser, job and all that!
    And girlfriend said they are willing to take him in again too. Great, they have seperate bedrooms and aren't even a couple, they fight too (per girlfriend and difficult child) Also it is a tiny place with 2 other kids and people in and out all the time. It isn't a positive place for him. They have always tried to be his pal and never a parent figure. When I was buying him clothes and shoes, they were buying him a playground for their place.

    I am afraid my difficult child will take them up on it for 2 reasons,
    1. he is weak and scared and unsure what to do, this is an easy way out of dealing with it himself.
    2. They are closer to the baby and his main concern is seeing the baby EVERY DAY!

    He is unaware that he can't handle to see girlfriend and the baby everyday. He is unaware that he needs to put time into getting better, probation (I assume) meetings, school and work before he can function in a normal life pattern.

    So what do I do? Do I tell him honestly what I think if he does decide to go there and be handed everything, that I dont feel it is best for him? Or do I let it happen and find him in jail next or worse? There is no way he can recover under those circumstances, no way!

    I am learning what is enabling and what is helping. Being very aware of my words and actions. But this is gotten me all frustrated. :hammer: I feel like :sword: !!
  2. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    Guess there's two ways to look at it -- he's an adult, none of your business at this point, let him make his own decisions. Or, he's too immature/needy to make a good choice, I have to make it for him.

    You can give advice under the first scenario. Give him the pros and cons -- at least he would have a sponsor and, more importantly, a job. The cons you've listed above.

    If you feel the second route is the way you have to go, I'd be writing all of this to the judge, DA and his attorney. They do have some say-so as to where he ultimately ends up, right? Of course, you could invite him to come home. At least you know what he'd be doing etc.

    It does sound like someone needs to clue him in that seeing his son every day when he gets out is not going to happen and why it won't.

    Neither way is easy. I wish you the best.
  3. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    I don't see how putting him in touch with help via a sponsor and a way to get to meetings, and a possible job is enabling. To me it would be a starting point - and much better than him floundering around. Too much time to flounder and he will be back to the way he was. To me, it would be much better he get out of rehab and hit the ground running having something in place. He either takes advantage of it or not - its his call.

    I know you don't want to enable, and you want to help, but (saying this kindly) there seems there is a little bit of a control thing going on with you. At 22, I don't think he is as "unaware" as you would like to think. He knows what he needs to do, whether or not he does it is another thing, and none of that is under your control.

  4. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    I agree with Marcie. I don't see getting him a sponsor as enabling him at all. The job is up to him. If he blows it, he'll be fired. He IS 22 and you can't control his life anymore. I doubt a judge will tell you that you can tell him where to live or what to do. in my opinion it sounds like ex-wife is actually trying to help. She may not have helped before, but, hey, I'd take it, especially if son is willing. In the big picture, your son has to chose what to do with his life. You can't control him, his treatment, his lack of treatment, etc. All you can do is detach and let go...legally you have no choice. I have a 23 year old daughter (ya know, the one who did drugs). She's doing well now, but where she lives, her boyfriend choices etc. are on her. I can't imagine telling her what to do--she's an adult and I CAN'T. I realize that you wanted a different life for your son and there seems to be a lot of bad feeling between you and his father, but you can control one person in this world--YOU! There is no other person alive that you can control. I had to learn that (thank you to my great therapist). ONce I realized this, I stopped trying to get other people to do things my way (not easy for me), but I found my own life became far more peaceful. In the end, your son has control over one person--himself. Who he allows to "help" him is his own choice. If he decides to get clean is also his own choice. I personally feel you should leave him where he is. If you plan on trying to change his choices, you're just going to end up disappointed, and he'll probably walk out anyways. As for being surprised he's taking hard drugs, I was surprised when my daughter told me all the drugs she'd taken too. We all want to think "it's just pot." But when they're in the juvy justice system it is usually a lot more than pot. I'm sorry you are going through this. I would practice detachment...and get a therapist to help you, since it's NOT easy!
  5. Star*

    Star* call 911

    I am mostly detached - my son is 17.

    I can understand HOW a father and his wife butting in after you have laid all the ground work would peeve you off. Little to no involvement in your son's life and then BINGO - they have all the magic answers. You get no glory, they get accolades for helping him out. You know the truth - so does everyone else. What would be wrong with calling this woman and asking her?

    If you remove the labels from all of this - Mom, Dad, EX's wife, Son and looked at it like you were a young mans caseworker - with not a lot of emotional involvement - how would the situation be then?

    You have a 22 year old young man, he's a father, he has no skills, no high school diploma, he's a hard drug user, he isn't supporting himself or his child. (right ?)

    In a few days he's going to get out of rehab - (right?)

    What are his options for returning to society?

    1.) He goes to live with his mother and step dad and....
    (you have to tell me what you've got lined up for him)
    2.) He goes to live with person A, has a sponsor, has a job lined up, is close to his child, is surrounded by strangers who are straight and sober?

    If you can make the arrangement work without stress to you - I'd let him go. I say this because I've had to do the same thing (sans the drugs) and no - I don't like where he's at. Yes I think he would be better off living with someone like me who knew him, and could help him - but THAT wouldn't be helping myself as i know we can only get along for a short time.

    Unless there is something REALLY WRONG with going to
    a place to live, a job, a support system,

    I'd say let him go - and worry about your 8 year old, yourself and husband. If you are prepared for what is going to come with him - and you think it's better for him to live with you - and you have in line a job, a support system - then tell him, but the final decision unless he's totally incapable of knowing what's best for him - should be his.

    It stinks - I know. Detaching is worse than living with it some days for me.

    Hugs for your hurt -
  6. goldenguru

    goldenguru New Member

    If I understand your post correctly - your son hasn't lived with you for 5 years - correct? So really - I can't see you offering 'what you think is best for him". I think it's high time he figure out whats best for himself.

    Your son is 22 years old. I agree with the others that it is time for him to call the shots. You have admitted that you don't want him to come live with you. So maybe this is his "miracle place".

    I give his fathers wife a lot of credit for even trying to help this young man out. I think they are concentrating on the appropriate things. NA meetings. Accountability with a sponsor. Gainful employment. The opportunity to stay plugged in to his child's life. All pluses in my book.

    Regardless of what you may think of your son's father and his wife - remember that this is your son's father.

  7. Suz

    Suz (the future) MRS. GERE

    I agree! I would jump at this and hope your son takes advantage of what is being offered.

    If she was offering a place to live with NO sponsor and NO job and NO transportation, so he can sit on his behind and do NOTHING, THAT would be enabling, in my humble opinion.

  8. saving grace

    saving grace New Member

    I agree.. I do not think that this would fall under the traditional enabling catagory.
    "You can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink it"
    She can offer up these "tools" its what he does with them that will make the difference.
    These kids, addicts if you will are very immature, I have been told that they actually stop developing mentally and emotionally at the time they started using drugs, so If I am correct your son is at a 16 year old maturity level..
    When they are in rehab the only thing they think of is recovery when they get out they are trying to think of how to stay clean,
    The wife of his dad is actually doing a good thing in a way and I say that tongue in cheek, "in a way" IF her intentions are good and she wants to help him by surrounding him with people that can help him like the brother that is in recovery and has the meetings and giving him a place to stay that is close to those meetings, that is a good thing, IF she is doing it to be the hero and she is trying to control his recovery then it is not such a good thing. ONLY HE will be the one to know which path he will take and what he needs when he leaves.

    Jmama, please step back and let your son own his own addiction and recovery. This is his and his alone. You are trying way to hard to anticipate what he will do. It does not matter what you think he should do or what you think is best for him. HE will do what he wants no matter what.

    Please for your own sanity let him call the shots here. He is 22 and a father and a man. If someone wanted to help my son and give him a place to stay and that meant he was safe and warm and with people that loved him and not in my house in my everyday life I would rejoyce from the rooftop. Unfortunately I am not that lucky.

  9. jmama45

    jmama45 New Member

    I understand what you are all saying. I guess trying to write a 23 year history is too hard. I cant explain how the past has been the same. You cant tell me any of you would forget the mother who has been there for her son, and go around her and make all these plans for her son. If they truly cared about difficult child, they would call me and work with me, not behind my back. The wife has always done this, jumps in and thinks she has all the answers. Where is his father in this? If he cared so much, he would be calling me!! Him going there would put him back to where this all started. How is that a good thing? His father was arrest for domestic abuse of the wife last year, he cheated and now they live in the same place in different rooms, they are not a couple, they fight and it is chaous there ... how is this a positive place for him to be? There isn't even an extra room for him there. They have all the answers, they just don't have the questions!

    We here can support him in everyway, in a healthy home. We are living proof of our responsible lives. We are role models. We have plenty of resources, smarts and finances to help. There is no doubt we could help him, if he was committed to changing. But I will not take that on without a full committment from him. They will. They just want to be the heros.

    The control you all hear, from me, is the fact that I know my child, and I know if he goes there, he will end up back on drugs or in jail. It is the control of a mother who is afraid for their child, nothing more. He is calling me and I know where his head is at and just like before, I can tell he isn't mature enough to know what steps to take, he is over his head.

    His father lives right in his old enivornment, he will be trying to recover in the place where drugs and friends are right there. They tell you to change all that.

    Everyone is telling me how difficult child should be making his own decisions, so why should someone set him up with a sponser, job and such, shouldn't he be getting one these on his own? Sure give him the phone number, let him choose to call it. But that is not what is happening here. I have seen this happen before, I stepped back and look at where he is now. The man needs to be taught to make his way, not have it given to him.

    On my other post, everyone here told me not to approach where he is going to live with him, not to offer him to come here, not to give him an easy out. But you all think it is ok for them to offer and give him everything??? I am confused at why that seems ok? I am sitting back like you all advised, let him ask. Am I not explaining this right?

    Yes I am VERY angry right now. I dont mean to take it out in my post. I just am trying to do the right thing FOR my son, and it feels like no one is understanding that is what I want most of all, to do what is right by him.
  10. goldenguru

    goldenguru New Member

    First off jmama (((hugs)))-

    I'm sure no one here wanted to make you angry. This is a very supportive group of folks - It seems the advise had a common thread.

    As parents we can ALL identify with this. We know our kids best. We understand the grave consequences if they make poor choices. We all fear for our kids. None of our kids are 'mature enough'. If they were, we wouldn't be hanging around a forum like this one. Our kids have all been in over their heads.

    But, here is the million dollar question you have to ask yourself. At what age do you let your son assume responsibility for his own life and realize the consequences of his own choices?

    You say he's too immature at 22. What are you going to do if he's too immature at 32? How about when he's in his 40's? IF you don't allow him the freedom to make his own choices at 22 (even if you don't agree with them) you are crippling him.

    I hear your fear jamama. We all do.

    What his dad does for him is between him and his dad (since bio-dad doesn't seem interested in the team approach). What you are willing to do for your son is your choice as well. Ultimately, what your son decides to do with his life is up to him. It may involve drugs. It may involve dysfunction. It may even involve prison. That's why we are encouraging you to detach. Love him and pray for him.
  11. saving grace

    saving grace New Member

    I think what we are trying to say is that the actions she is taking is not considered enabling.

    You say you know your son but you also say he has been out of the house for 5 years with minimal contact you yourself said you didnt know of his current drug use until recently.

    You are right, being in an unstable environment will not help him. Being around drug users will not help him BUT from experience I will tell you that it does not matter where he lives it does not matter how stable your home is. If he decides to use he will use it doesnt matter where he lives. I know you want what you think is best for him but what we are trying to share with you because we have all been there is that it is up to him. You can give him all the means of sobriety but if he doesnt want to be sober he wont be.

    I agree that they should work with you not against you. And you want whats best for him. and like I said earlier, they (the addicts) do not know how to lay out the plan. I have my son in an adolescent program and he is 21, it works better for him. He needs my input and help and it works for us. It did not work for him on his own. BUt he came to me and when he was ready for my help that is when I helped him and it worked, all the other times it was a waste of time, he didnt want my help.

    when you speak with him, tell him you love him and will support whatever he decides. You can tell him that you hope he gives it alot of thought and makes the right choices for him. Tell him that you are there for him. If he asks for help then offer your home to him. If he asks you for your opinion on what he should do, then tell him. but he HAS to make the choice himself it will not work any other way. I can promise you that.

    Sorry if we are hard on you, but as you will see we tell it like it is, sometimes we need to see ALL sides of a situation to get hte best look at it. We also sometimes dont see the whole picture either, it is very hard to describe your feelings in a post, Please dont feel like we are not supporting you. we are, we are trying to.

  12. Marcie Mac

    Marcie Mac Just Plain Ole Tired

    I don't quite understand, and its difficult, your right, without knowing all the years of past history.

    I seem to sense a little bit of animosity between you, his father and his stepmother. It always seems to be difficult enough to deal with X's and new spouces, and its definately difficult when no one is on the same page. If you don't approve of the wife, his dad, how they live, where they live, their sleeping arrangements, etc and think any help offered is only to make them look good (one wonders to who), then there will never be any meeting of the minds.

    I still don't see it as them giving him "everything" The only thing I can see is that he now has a contact - he can use it or not use it - its something - its a start. In all reality, 30 days of forced sobriety means squat - most people do the two steps forward, one backward, more than a few times, while in recovery.

    I don't care where you live, how upstanding of a community you live in, drugs are everywhere and if you want them, they can be found, rather easily. Short of locking him in his room, and making like his shadow, how can you save him? And what happens when he swears he will give you a full committment and then falls down as he probably will. You can have all the money and contacts and resources till the end of time, but unless your son has the actual intent,then, well, those resources are wasted.

    Its not easy, believe me, my difficult child is a year older than yours and have the been there done that Tshirt.

  13. jmama45

    jmama45 New Member

    I know you aren't trying Occupational Therapist (OT) make me mad LOL I am not mad at you guys, I am mad at them for doing this to my son and for keeping me out of the picture as if I am not a caring mom who is trying to do the right thing.

    Maybe what I didn't explain well enough, is the fact that the girlfriend has been working with me and I have been helping her with the baby since birth. This is how I got to know anything about what my son has been up to. Yes he kept his distance from me, in his daily life so I wouldn't see the drug addiction, and he did a great job making like he was doing everything right... but I what I saw in the weeks since the baby was born, has opened my eyes to where he was heading... although the addiction was a surprise. He hid it well.

    So because I am in close contact with the girlfriend and helping with the baby, this is the challenge, she tells me everything going on with my son, what he is saying to her, what his tone is etc., she tells me that the fathers wife called her and has this plan... so how do I detatch and help girlfriend and the baby too? She has no support with the baby and has turned to me since I am making myself available as a gm. I will not turn away from the baby. I can't and won't not be an involved gm. I have her everyweek and I am sure it will grow to more as she gets older.

    If the baby wasn't in the picture, this would be a totally different story and I could detach so much better. But I can not cut girlfriend off or the baby.

    yes my son has been out of here for 6 years, but not out of my life, just his calls and visits painted a different picture than his reality. Does that make sense?

    His girlfriend is a total controling personality. Mother like to him. I am trying to get her to see he needs to be treated as an adult by her and if he is going to mess up, she cant stop him. I know her plan is to have him move back in with her asap. She wants his help with the baby, yet he has no track record of doing that yet. She doesn't work, yet complains about how hard it is to have the baby alone. So she is looking for him to be there.

    I know I cannot control him, I dont want to either. I am just trying to find the plan that will give him the best chance to get his life in order. He was 17 when he started weed, and he is going to have to pick up from that age, that is where he is at in his head, 17.

    Is there animosity between me, his father and his wife? YES! I cannot tell you how hard I have tried to work with them in the past, they will NOT do it. Its their way no matter what. The natural feeling when this happens is what I feel. Now I have to except the fact that they are who they are and have to find my way through it.

    And do I approve of how they live? I dont care what goes on with them, Remember though, my difficult child and grandchild are effected by it, so yes it bothers me that they are around that chaos. I am human.

    I am not saying my community, finances or lifestyle will fix him, I am saying that I believe he has a better chance with resources and a calm home, and people who can help point him in the right direction. I dont care where that is, but I do not know of anyone else in his life that can provide that to him.

    I get it is all his choice, I get I cant control him. But between his girlfriend and them, control and enabling is all he will get. Trust me that I have learned this in the past.

    I am a learner, I dig into what I need to learn. I have learned a lot here, and am putting it to action. They are making it up as they go along. My son is who will pay for that. It makes me very mad that they are setting him up to fail. Stay tuned... unless he makes a decision I haven't heard about, you'll see what I am saying made sense.
  14. Big Bad Kitty

    Big Bad Kitty lolcat

    You know, I had to think about this for awhile. And I have to respectfully disagree with the majority here.

    What jmama's DEX's girlfriend is offering to do most certainly is enabling. I don't see how this can be seen as anything but. It is enabling and controlling, and it seems to be (although this part has nothing to do with the boy) quite a dig at jmama.

    However, that having been said, Jmama, there is really nothing you can do about it. If they offer him the place and he accepts, you really need to back off and "sit on your lips" as we say. If he does not accept, or if he asks for your opinion, then offer it.

    He may very well have a better chance in the environment at your place than at your DEX's. It is not your choice to make. He may have to learn by trial and error rather than by you telling him. Also if he is not completely stable when he gets out, you may not want him around your other child.

    Your place and DEX's place are not the only 2 choices in the world. There are halfway houses, soberhouses, long term treatment centers, he has a lot of options out there. HE (not you) needs to choose which one is best for him.

    One last thing. I know you have a long history with DEX and the G/F. You don't know for a fact that things will be the same this time. Your son is older and has a child now. Even if his father is still a moron, he may suprise you.

    Pray for God's will. He calls the shots anyway.
  15. SomewhereOutThere

    SomewhereOutThere Well-Known Member

    The bottom line, and I've been there, is no matter what you think or even know you have no control over the situation. This doesn't mean you can't help with the baby. You can do that without getting involved in your son's choices because they are two seperate people. You are not going to make him be a successful, productive member of society (your son) unless he wants to be and is willing to work very hard at it. I think "let go and let God" works here--if you're not religious, give it to something else that is bigger than you are. Focus on the grandchild. The harder you try to micromanage the life of your grown child who is a drug addict the more frustrated you'll get. As you've found out, he didn't tell you the truth about his life. My daughter didn't tell us the truth about her life either UNTIL she was off the drugs. Her motto is "Never trust a drug addict."
    I agree that there are drug friends to be found everywhere. The only time it helps to remove our adult kids from their friends is if they are committed to going straight and finding different friends and it's HARD. My daughter got involved in drugs because she was lonely and the drug crowd is very tight. Now she doesn't have many friends--it's a tradeoff she was willing to make, but often she feels lonely. There is no place without trouble. Your son would find it in your neighborhood if he isn't ready to walk the straight line. And even if he lived with you, you wouldn't know about his life.
    I think you should give yourself a break, learn detachment and try to help with the baby. The girlfriend doesn't sound too stable--you can't really help HER either, but at least you can keep an eye on your grandchild.
    There is only one plan that will work for your son: He has to decide, with total certainty, "I WANT TO STOP THIS!" Until he does, you can't help, his father can't help, his wife can't help. But I still don't think your ex's wife is going to hurt him. She just won't be successful unless he himself chooses to listen to his sponsor. It has to come from deep within. He's had this destructive lifestyle for a long time and it's hard to give up. I wish you both the best--and that precious grandchild.
  16. jmama45

    jmama45 New Member

    Thanks. I am trying to do the right thing, I really am. Everyone has their stories and I think the trouble with forums like this, (which I LOVE)is sometimes we forget that we all have so many different elements in our relations surrounding our difficult child that no one else understands, ya know.

    Unfortunately, I do know that difficult child's father's relationship is bad now, the info I gave here was current. When my son was younger, I did NOT know that they even had any major problems, just that his father was a hot head, yeller. Anywho, just wanted to clearify that.

    I do know what you mean that I have to except her butting in, it is just hard to do, to except that this is gonna blow up for him, that is hard to do. Call it mothers intuition, I dont feel at all good about this.

    I will let him make that mistake. I just pray it doesn't cost him too high a price :frown:
  17. PonyGirl

    PonyGirl Warrior Parent

    Good morning, Jmama, just want to say, I feel your pain! This situation is in the foggy area between "enabling" and "helping".

    In my mind, "enabling" has the more negative feeling. If someone tries to shield difficult child from actual consequences; lie for him to get him out of trouble, or pay fines for him to avoid jail, that's enabling.

    Helping is the more positive action; supporting recovery and meeting attendance, giving a 'safe' place to live, arranging a foot-in-the-door to possible employment, that does feel more like helping than enabling.

    I know your struggle. I understand your anger. It doesn't seem fair that difficult child's dad & step-mom are the ones on the white horse right now! And that they don't communicate with you at all, that burns.

    Hope your days goes better today. I will be thinking of you.

  18. saving grace

    saving grace New Member

    This is exactly what I was trying to say, thanks Pony! She is spot on in my opinion.

    Yes, Jmama the thing with forums is that there are different opinions and different experiences to be heard, that is the point. That is what helps me. I know I need to see things from every angle and everyone coming at me from different places helps me even when I dont want to hear it it helps.

    As I read your latest post I had a thought even before someone else already said it.
    Help your son by helping his child. Put your energy into the baby. Thats how you can help him for now.

  19. CrazyinVA

    CrazyinVA Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I think that it's very easy to get your anger at your ex and his wife, mixed up with your concern for your child. Been there myself, many times. I resented any "help" my kids' dad tried to give, because *I* knew best. Even if I was right, and he DID make things worse, I still had to learn to let some of that anger go.

    I remember one time years ago, when Oldest was having surgery. Her dad showed up, sat across the waiting room from me, and didn't speak. When the surgeon came out, my ex came over, only to grimace and walk away again when the surgeon described in detail what he'd had to do inside our daughter's abdomen. Her dad left without another word. I was in tears.. ticked off that he couldn't deal with OUR daughter's health issues... until a very kind woman who'd been waiting near me, said, "honey, at least he was here. Maybe that's all he's able to do." I've carried that comment with me, and repeated it to myself over the years.

    Take a step back ... and do your best to untangle your feelings towards his dad and stepmom, and your concern for your son. It may help you look at things more objectively.

    That's just my 2 cents, added to the great advice you've already received.
  20. jmama45

    jmama45 New Member

    thanks again everyone. I did have the thought I didnt express here, one angle I am looking at is that I do not know this "sponsor" background... how long is he recovered etc... I know my son is talking to one in there that is 21 yrs recovered and my son says he admires the person the guy is, he can relate to him and he has him opening up. So it was looking like that would be a good sponsor for him. I was hoping he would keep with that guy since he is learning from him, as he put it. So part of my anger is if they ruin that and what if this guy isn't as good a match for my son? I dont think his sponsor should be someone so close to the family. Will he open up, ya know. I may be wrong, but it is my reservation without knowing more.

    I still cant agree that she is helping. I wish I could explain they way she is, but she has caused me much much heart ache and agravation regarding my son, and it seems some people do not change their stripes. Trust me if she was so into helping, she would be calling me first of.

    I have work to do to get my head together, for sure.