How would you average an F-?

[KTMom91]

I didn't even know F- was really a grade, until I checked on Miss KT online this morning. She has an F- in English...one of the two classes she needs to graduate in June. And a D- in Government...the other class. Her English teacher called this morning, and we discussed Miss KT's strengths and weaknesses. The teacher says Miss KT sounds like her darling daughter...and she's willing to work one on one with Miss KT to be sure she knows what she needs to know. Wow! I've been so lucky with this district, and these teachers that are willing to help my difficult child get through.

After the teacher and I talked, I called my mother, who has been friendly this week, and reminded her of my policy of confiscating car keys when grades were below a C, and asked if she was willing to follow through on this. She said yes (?!?!?) so starting today, Miss KT can drive only to school and home again until her grades are back up.

 

[susiestar]

Sorry about the grades. Sad that even driving doesn't motivate her.

 

[meowbunny]

I don't know about KT, but I can guaranty you that if I gave my daughter the keys, she would not be following any rules limiting where she goes. I'd say no driving means no driving -- she can ask friends, take a bus, even walk but no car. Sorry.

 

[witzend]

As in GPA? -.5 seems right. a=4, b=3, c=2, d=1, f=0.

I've never heard of that either. It sounds as though Miss KT has ticked someone off pretty badly. Other than the private school, all of my kid's schools would not grade any child an F. "No child is ever a failure." BS! The ones who actively sabotage their educations and the education of others are!

 

[donna723]

I don't know ... I tend to agree with MB. If it was me, I'd make those car keys disappear and they'd stay disappeared until the grades came up to an acceptable level! When mine were in high school, if the grades were bad, they not only didn't drive, their young hineys were firmly grounded until the next report card came out - since they obviously needed to spend more time studying and less time running around! I was one of those MEAN mamas! It would be different if she were really trying and struggling and still just missed getting a passing grade, but I have no idea how you can get an "F-" in a class! Is there anything lower than a "Zero"? An F- has to be doing absolutely nothing!

Having a car and being able to drive to school at 17 is a privilege that they should earn, it's not a right. A little while riding a school bus might be enough to get the message across. If she's not sure what those large, yellow, cracker-box shaped vehicles are, have her watch "Ferris Bueller's Day Off" a time or two!

 

[TerryJ2]

Good idea to make the keys go away.

I've never heard of an F-. Like, below zero ...

I hope this helps to motivate her. And I'm glad the teacher is willing to help out. Sounds good so far.

 

[everywoman]

My district refuses to allow anyone to receive a grade below 62. Even if they do absolutely no work, the teacher has to give them a 62. They can actually do no assignment and make a 100 on the exam and pass the class. The clincher in my class is that all of my assignments are tied to our state standards. If you do not master 80% of all standards---there are 36-40 in the ELA curriculum, you can't pass the class because of non-mastery of standards. While I do not like for anyone to fail, I want to insure they are learning what they need to learn. I accept late work. I make them stay after school to complete all make-up assignments. But the 62 rules really bites in all non-standard courses.

 

[Hound dog]

Everywoman OMG you're kidding me? No grade lower than a 62?? Who thought up that ingenious plan?? I'm surprised any of the kids even bother. Most especially difficult children.

I agree. No driving means no driving. If I was a kid and someone handed me keys, I would do what I wanted and tell em what they wanted to hear.

If my kids brought home an F, they'd be walking and having no social life. But then, my kids walked 2 miles a day to and from school anyway. lol

 

[Wiped Out]

I'm sorry she is so unmotivated. I would probably do the no keys for anything but don't know your situation so it may be needed.

Everywoman-Oh my! A 62% even if they do NO work!? What's up with that? What is there reasoning?

 

[KTMom91]

If she was still home, it would be no keys and a bus pass, but that isn't an option since she's at my mom's. She's 10 miles from school with no bus service available, so Mom is tracking her time. She has 20 minutes to get home after school.

I'm so glad her teacher's willing to work with her. Maybe she'll learn something this year!

 

[TerryJ2]

Everywoman, that's ridiculous!!! OMG! That makes absolutely NO sense.
I know, I'm preaching to the choir.
Sheesh.

 

[flutterbee]

Well, I know that my school doesn't do the 62 BS, because my former 'second son' had a 4 in one class. And my own little ray of sunshine, easy child, has had a grade in the 40's.

Here's hoping that Miss KT turns this around. Kudos to the teacher. Devon had a 9th grade English teacher who had a son with a lot of the same issues (depression, etc) and she really took an interest in him. She's the only reason he passed that class.

 

[Abbey]

I'll attempt to explain the 62 rule, although my state was a 50 rule.

There is something to be said for the student actually attending class and learning auditorally. For example:

I had a student about 10 years ago that did NOTHING but sit in his chair slouched. Never did one assignment, wouldn't answer questions directed at him...nothing. But, when I would give a test, that little bugger would ace it EVERY TIME. (It really annoyed me.)

He was learning, but not in the traditional sense. I passed him with a C, but also had the discussion with him (actually, there was no discussion...I talked and he looked blankly at me) that this is not the way the real world works. Try doing this at a job.

So, we were required to give 50% for any missing assignment simply for that reason. If you do the math, getting a zero negates nearly everything you DID do. There is nothing that will defeat a kid more than knowing they have no earthly way to dig themselves out of a hole. When you're looking at a 4% average...well, it's easier just to give up. If you have a 55%, there is a smidgen of hope.

I've seen many kids take advantage of that hope. Heck...they might work their wasy to a D, but at least it's something. Maybe they'll work harder the next time. No hope is NOT good.

Make sense?

Abbey

 

[everywoman]

Abbey is right about the reason---it's a self-esteem/give 'em hope/don't let them hand themselves sort of thing. If a students receives a 4 on a report card, well, the chances of them passing the class at all in zilch. The practice was put in place to insure that a child "has a chance" to pass. The problem is that many take advantage of the situation and use it to their advantage. In some way it makes sense---an F, is an F, is an F whether it is a 4 or a 50 or a 62.

 

[Hound dog]

I had a student about 10 years ago that did NOTHING but sit in his chair slouched. Never did one assignment, wouldn't answer questions directed at him...nothing. But, when I would give a test, that little bugger would ace it EVERY TIME.

OMG Abbey! I did that all the time. I refused to do homework. School "owned" me from 9-3, in my mind any other time of the day belonged to me. I never studied for tests either. Never did big projects. (I could never figure out how to start) I'd do classwork because, well I figured that was during the time the school owned me. lol

But I made good grades because I'd ace the tests.

I've mentioned before I was a difficult child. But looking back, I see now this is most likely why most teachers didn't care for me. lol

 

[Abbey]

No, not sweet Daisy!!!

I actually saw this kid about 10 years later at an outdoor concert (MC Hammer of all things...it was free, ok, and we were in a mosh pit). I recognized him immediately, although he was tatted and grown. I went up and gave him a big hug...he was a bit stunned at first then said, "Hey...Ms. M?" Yep. Tis me. Now where are my flip flops?

We chatted a few minutes and he said, "Yeah...real life, well, it stinks (insert censored word) sometimes."

"I told you so."

Abbey

 

[donna723]

"If a students receives a 4 on a report card, well, the chances of them passing the class at all in zilch. The practice was put in place to insure that a child "has a chance" to pass."

I may be the ultimate old-fashioned mama but I think we're doing our kids a huge injustice! If they do nothing in a class and get a "4", why should they have any hopes of passing that class? That's supposed to be the incentive not to get the "4" in the first place! If you fail the class, you take it again ... and again. If you never pass it, you don't graduate, and that's as it should be. If you don't learn the required amount to graduate, you don't graduate! Period! Otherwise, that diploma is meaningless. (It's not that hard! There were some pretty dumb kids who managed to graduate when I did - but they did it honestly and nobody "gave" them anything!) They're taking away all the incentive to actually learn something! We need to worry a whole lot less about their precious "self esteem" and more about teaching how it is in the real world that they will have to live in! Why should they feel good about themselves or have any hopes of passing a class if they've done absolutely nothing and have a grade of "4"! The "self esteem" should come from putting forth an effort and actually accomplishing something that you can be proud of, not having it handed to you! Somewhere along the line we've lost track of that! Giving them credit for mastering 60% of the knowledge of the subject that they don't really have allows them to pass the class with only a minimum of effort. Maybe that's why so many kids going to college these days have to take remedial courses to make up for what they didn't learn in high school!

What is this teaching them? When you have a job and only put forth 4% of the effort required, you will very soon be out the door and nobody will give a rats rear about your "self esteem"! Many of todays kids have been so petted and pampered and fussed over and worried about they're going to be totally useless when they're turned out in the real world and have to stand on their own two feet! Think about it this way ... how would you like to find out that the doctor doing your surgery didn't really put forth much effort in medical school - they just gave him good grades because they were worried about his self-esteem! Just MHO!

 

[CatMat]

Alirhgt.... I totally agree with keeping grades at an acceptable level. My difficult child is failing a class at the moment and has been "grounded" however, he ignores that and walks out anyway. Since I feel this is a powerplay on his part, I chose not to engage it and have been finding other punishments if he walks out. He used to have a TV in his room, which is now gone until his behavior changes and is consistent. I also used to drive him to school, which I stopped doing and told him it was because I did not appreciate the way he is being disrespectful, and plan to continue this, hoping it eventually has an impact on the situation.
The thing I am afraid of is this year he is actually participating quite well with most all his teachers including his IEP teacher as in past years, he fought everyone trying to help him through school, and I really don't want him to revert back because of the pressure I'm putting on him. Although I am prepared to let him go down that road if he so chooses as I feel no teenager in my house will "call the shots".
I remind him often that these things I am taking away are ultimately because of his choices.
Any suggestions as to different things to try?

 

[DammitJanet]

I dont think they used to have a thresh hold grading system. Or if they did, I never managed to know about it...lol.

My pet peeve with schools these days is what they teach. Im probably gonna get in trouble with teachers...but since I dont think we have any history teachers on the board maybe I will be ok...lol. Why oh why dont we teach history anymore? When did Pearl Harbor become not important?

The other night Mandy was sitting in the living room doing some sort of govt/civics/history homework for some class she is taking. I think it is a college level class too. She was having to fill in this crossword type puzzle thing having to do with branches of the government, the supreme court, the constitution, the original 13 states, etc. There were some questions about what these things did...and even stuff about things like the Minutemen. Ok...hello...when did this stuff stop being taught in the lower grades? She was absolutely astounded that we knew this information off the tops of our heads. That we knew there were three branches of our government and what all three did! That we knew that the Constitution was the law of the land! Good grief. No wonder these kids get into trouble...they dont know where the laws come from...lol.

I will never forget years ago when my boys were still in elementary school and it was Pearl Harbor day. That has always been a big day in my family. My dad is a WWII vet. So I got the boys ready for school that morning and gave them a crash course in what that day meant and told them how they had 5 relatives who had fought in that war. I wanted them to be able to participate in the lesson that I was sure was to come that day. They never even acknowledged it was Pearl Harbor day! I was livid.

 

[everywoman]

I teach American Literature--that is my forte---and although I pick up some other courses here and there---that's what I do. It amazed me what I have to teach in order for the student's to understand the context of the story. They know very little about US History, culture, science, trivia....drives me crazy---every year when teaching The Crucible I have to teach both early America and the 1950's.

On a side note, I had a student transfer in two weeks ago from New Mexico. My freshman boys (note more than one) actually asked what lanugage they speak there....WTH!!! How do you get to the 9th grade and not know that New Mexico is a part of the US.