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I am having a hard time with this (daughter in jail)
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<blockquote data-quote="Marguerite" data-source="post: 213408" data-attributes="member: 1991"><p>Bran, I'm glad I read your last response. I had things I wanted to say and was concerned I might hurt you with what I had to say. Noew you have said the same things yourself (in your own way). </p><p></p><p>And DDD - thank you, you said what I would have only because it is a legal system with which I am unfamiliar, I wasn't sure whether my advice would be appropriate. Your response, and other's comments Occupational Therapist (OT) your response, tells me I was on the right track in my own mind.</p><p></p><p>So here goes - </p><p></p><p>Bran - you're tearing your heart out to no avail. Why should you feel more punished, than your daughter does? You need to get your own perspective back, I think in your own heart you are feeling what you think she is feeling - only you have now see, she isn't. I mean, if it was my easy child, my eldest darling daughter, suddenly in jail and acting inappropriately due to refusing all medications - I'd be giving you a run for your money. I bonded with that baby, I could see the world through her infant eyes within hours of her birth, I understand her so well even if I can't control her now, or (generally) even step in to help her. I am an independent person who raised a daughter who is independent and capable; perhaps TOO capable. She is planning her wedding and although she loves us we have no say whatsoever. She is now acting out her own dream. I have to step back.</p><p></p><p>OK, that doesn't compare to your torture. I'm talking about a easy child, after all. But the part of me that wants to step in and make it all work has to now step back. I am an organiser and fixer and have to recognise that so is my daughter; she learned it from me. If I tried to do ANYTHING, it would undoubtedly cause big problems.</p><p></p><p>Your daughter is not capable like this at the moment. She thinks she is. We know from past posts of yours that she likes to push your buttons - the jail girlfriend is probably pure fiction, or if not - then another female (other than you) is being used emotionally very cruelly by her and is about to get very badly hurt.</p><p></p><p>Your daughter wants to stay in jail. She says. But this isn't about what SHE wants, it's about what she NEEDS. And also what you need.</p><p></p><p>You do NOT need her back home as bad as ever, as uncontrolled as ever. You need to be strong. Like me mentally visualising how terrible I would feel if my darling easy child were in prison and how I would want to personally tear down the walls with my fingernails to get her out, you need to (as I would need to) resist this and detach (somehow! Easier said than done) because all that is happening now, all you are hurting, is YOU.</p><p></p><p>No skin off her nose, obviously.</p><p></p><p>Similarly - DON'T DROP THE CHARGES. She's been constantly accusing you of it all being your fault - you drop those charges, you justify that opinion. And it is just plain wrong. You also would be sending her the wrong message - she can do what she wants to you, trash the place, trash other people, steal, lie, cheat - and no consequences will stick.</p><p></p><p>Where will it stop? If you give way in this, PLEASE mentally visualise the best outcome - and the worst. Plan for the worst but hope for the best. And if you have any common sense left in you after all you've been through (and I do have hope that you do still have that common sense) then you will see - the worst possibilities are ones you cannot live with in your house. It will not stop, if she just comes out of jail as she now is, and comes home. How will you make sure she is medicated? How will you enforce it? How will you control her behaviour? You couldn't before, why would it be better, especially after what she would consider she has survived and overcome? She will be even more stubborn, 'tougher' and even less malleable.</p><p></p><p>I agree with you - you MUST talk to that DA somehow. But you are being fobbed off and pushed around by bureaucracy, in exactly the same way your daughter has fobbed you off and pushed you around. You are being bullied and manipulated by a system.</p><p></p><p>So you need to dig deep and find some courage and strength, not easy after the way your daughter has had you cowed and scared. You've been trained to be a doormat and now the DA's staff are wiping their shoes on you.</p><p></p><p>SO my recommendation is to try DDD's advice, but with a couple of added wrinkles. And with the over-riding clause - HAVE STRENGTH at least on the outside. Stay calm, stay cool (even if it's an act) and USE your pain, the pain you shared with us in your initial post in this thread, as the energy force to keep you going. If you use that pain it won't hurt you so much and you will be converting the energy of that pain into strength in other areas of your life as well. Every tiny success is more strength.</p><p></p><p>So go see the DA but go prepared. Have your letter already written (as per DDD's advice) and hand-deliver it. If possible, make it clear that you want to personally deliver it to the DA. Your daughter is one of the most important things in your life, so is your husband and your other son. Your remaining family MUST have your success here, do this in their name. Tell that cow of a secretary that your husband and son MUST be assured of being safe in their own home, but also as a mother your daughter is mentally ill and is not being given access to appropriate treatment in jail. If anything, she has made it clear to you that jail, far from being a deterrent, is being seen as a reward. This is a manifestation of her illness which further adds pressure to the need for her to be receiving medical treatment NOW. Why is she not being forced to take her medications? A heroin addict would be getting their methadone or naltrexone in jail under strict supervision - why on earth is an UNDER-AGE mentally ill girl not being made to take her medications? Why is she not in treatment? The victims require this in order to be able to move from victim status to survivor status.</p><p></p><p>And the next point - yes, take your book. Also take your knitting, your scarf and beanie, your nanna rug, a thermos of coffee or soup, a cushion - settle yourself down and make it clear that you have a problem of the highest priority and nothing else in your life matters as much, so everything else is on hold in your life. After all, the DA is a busy person, you know that you have to make yourself available to utilise any spare minute that comes up but of course the DA has already indicated a willingness to discuss this from the victim point of view so you are simply following along with what the DA has said and making yourself available to do just that. This has become urgent also - time is of the essence. She says she likes jail? (yeah, right) Well, she needs to be moved to where she doesn't want to be - Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or similar. Locked psychiatric ward maybe?</p><p></p><p>Ignore the alleged lesbian affair and for pete's sake, stop reacting when she says stuff! Keep in mind, she's trying to push your buttons. She always does! I am a strong believer that homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle of choice (despite furore over certain songs about "I kissed a girl and I liked it" - PLEASE people, stop reacting because you're only giving it more attention). If your daughter is genuinely a lesbian then she has been for years despite anything you could do or could have done. If she's merely experimenting sexually/emotionally - well, she's not exactly stable right now. Her "girlfriend" (if she really exists) is set up to be another of your daughter's victims. Sorry. But since she's had a boyfriend 'outside' - either she's only experimenting, or she's lying. I'm betting it's this last one, possibly with an innocent dupe involved (poor girl).</p><p></p><p>Your mother either shouldn't have been with you on the visit, or should have been prepared for what she heard. Chances are she is stronger than you give her credit. After all, you are. Stop worrying about other people and think about yourself. You have enough on your plate to deal with, without adding other people's problems onto your own shoulders.</p><p></p><p>You can do this. But you need to take yourself in hand, because at the moment you can't take your daughter in hand.</p><p></p><p>And by the way, I have done exactly what DDD and I have proposed - I took my thermos, I took my diary, I took the letter, my scarf, my beanie, my book and knitting. And although I was quaking inside, I didn't let them see it and when I look back I feel triumph. Because although I eventually allowed myself to be 'persuaded' to leave, it was after I had been given some concessions and it was when I was ready to leave anyway, on my terms. I still hadn't seen the person I had asked to see but I had been promised consideration for our case and we got it within days.</p><p></p><p>There is only one thing I would maybe do differently - have the media ready to witness me being evicted (should that be about to happen). But maybe that should be Stage II. You can always go back for a second visit, maybe bringing a larger knitting project this time (and a tame reporter with a camera at the ready). But here's hoping you get what you want at Stage I.</p><p></p><p>Hang in there, you are stronger than you think.</p><p></p><p>Marg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Marguerite, post: 213408, member: 1991"] Bran, I'm glad I read your last response. I had things I wanted to say and was concerned I might hurt you with what I had to say. Noew you have said the same things yourself (in your own way). And DDD - thank you, you said what I would have only because it is a legal system with which I am unfamiliar, I wasn't sure whether my advice would be appropriate. Your response, and other's comments Occupational Therapist (OT) your response, tells me I was on the right track in my own mind. So here goes - Bran - you're tearing your heart out to no avail. Why should you feel more punished, than your daughter does? You need to get your own perspective back, I think in your own heart you are feeling what you think she is feeling - only you have now see, she isn't. I mean, if it was my easy child, my eldest darling daughter, suddenly in jail and acting inappropriately due to refusing all medications - I'd be giving you a run for your money. I bonded with that baby, I could see the world through her infant eyes within hours of her birth, I understand her so well even if I can't control her now, or (generally) even step in to help her. I am an independent person who raised a daughter who is independent and capable; perhaps TOO capable. She is planning her wedding and although she loves us we have no say whatsoever. She is now acting out her own dream. I have to step back. OK, that doesn't compare to your torture. I'm talking about a easy child, after all. But the part of me that wants to step in and make it all work has to now step back. I am an organiser and fixer and have to recognise that so is my daughter; she learned it from me. If I tried to do ANYTHING, it would undoubtedly cause big problems. Your daughter is not capable like this at the moment. She thinks she is. We know from past posts of yours that she likes to push your buttons - the jail girlfriend is probably pure fiction, or if not - then another female (other than you) is being used emotionally very cruelly by her and is about to get very badly hurt. Your daughter wants to stay in jail. She says. But this isn't about what SHE wants, it's about what she NEEDS. And also what you need. You do NOT need her back home as bad as ever, as uncontrolled as ever. You need to be strong. Like me mentally visualising how terrible I would feel if my darling easy child were in prison and how I would want to personally tear down the walls with my fingernails to get her out, you need to (as I would need to) resist this and detach (somehow! Easier said than done) because all that is happening now, all you are hurting, is YOU. No skin off her nose, obviously. Similarly - DON'T DROP THE CHARGES. She's been constantly accusing you of it all being your fault - you drop those charges, you justify that opinion. And it is just plain wrong. You also would be sending her the wrong message - she can do what she wants to you, trash the place, trash other people, steal, lie, cheat - and no consequences will stick. Where will it stop? If you give way in this, PLEASE mentally visualise the best outcome - and the worst. Plan for the worst but hope for the best. And if you have any common sense left in you after all you've been through (and I do have hope that you do still have that common sense) then you will see - the worst possibilities are ones you cannot live with in your house. It will not stop, if she just comes out of jail as she now is, and comes home. How will you make sure she is medicated? How will you enforce it? How will you control her behaviour? You couldn't before, why would it be better, especially after what she would consider she has survived and overcome? She will be even more stubborn, 'tougher' and even less malleable. I agree with you - you MUST talk to that DA somehow. But you are being fobbed off and pushed around by bureaucracy, in exactly the same way your daughter has fobbed you off and pushed you around. You are being bullied and manipulated by a system. So you need to dig deep and find some courage and strength, not easy after the way your daughter has had you cowed and scared. You've been trained to be a doormat and now the DA's staff are wiping their shoes on you. SO my recommendation is to try DDD's advice, but with a couple of added wrinkles. And with the over-riding clause - HAVE STRENGTH at least on the outside. Stay calm, stay cool (even if it's an act) and USE your pain, the pain you shared with us in your initial post in this thread, as the energy force to keep you going. If you use that pain it won't hurt you so much and you will be converting the energy of that pain into strength in other areas of your life as well. Every tiny success is more strength. So go see the DA but go prepared. Have your letter already written (as per DDD's advice) and hand-deliver it. If possible, make it clear that you want to personally deliver it to the DA. Your daughter is one of the most important things in your life, so is your husband and your other son. Your remaining family MUST have your success here, do this in their name. Tell that cow of a secretary that your husband and son MUST be assured of being safe in their own home, but also as a mother your daughter is mentally ill and is not being given access to appropriate treatment in jail. If anything, she has made it clear to you that jail, far from being a deterrent, is being seen as a reward. This is a manifestation of her illness which further adds pressure to the need for her to be receiving medical treatment NOW. Why is she not being forced to take her medications? A heroin addict would be getting their methadone or naltrexone in jail under strict supervision - why on earth is an UNDER-AGE mentally ill girl not being made to take her medications? Why is she not in treatment? The victims require this in order to be able to move from victim status to survivor status. And the next point - yes, take your book. Also take your knitting, your scarf and beanie, your nanna rug, a thermos of coffee or soup, a cushion - settle yourself down and make it clear that you have a problem of the highest priority and nothing else in your life matters as much, so everything else is on hold in your life. After all, the DA is a busy person, you know that you have to make yourself available to utilise any spare minute that comes up but of course the DA has already indicated a willingness to discuss this from the victim point of view so you are simply following along with what the DA has said and making yourself available to do just that. This has become urgent also - time is of the essence. She says she likes jail? (yeah, right) Well, she needs to be moved to where she doesn't want to be - Residential Treatment Center (RTC) or similar. Locked psychiatric ward maybe? Ignore the alleged lesbian affair and for pete's sake, stop reacting when she says stuff! Keep in mind, she's trying to push your buttons. She always does! I am a strong believer that homosexuality is NOT a lifestyle of choice (despite furore over certain songs about "I kissed a girl and I liked it" - PLEASE people, stop reacting because you're only giving it more attention). If your daughter is genuinely a lesbian then she has been for years despite anything you could do or could have done. If she's merely experimenting sexually/emotionally - well, she's not exactly stable right now. Her "girlfriend" (if she really exists) is set up to be another of your daughter's victims. Sorry. But since she's had a boyfriend 'outside' - either she's only experimenting, or she's lying. I'm betting it's this last one, possibly with an innocent dupe involved (poor girl). Your mother either shouldn't have been with you on the visit, or should have been prepared for what she heard. Chances are she is stronger than you give her credit. After all, you are. Stop worrying about other people and think about yourself. You have enough on your plate to deal with, without adding other people's problems onto your own shoulders. You can do this. But you need to take yourself in hand, because at the moment you can't take your daughter in hand. And by the way, I have done exactly what DDD and I have proposed - I took my thermos, I took my diary, I took the letter, my scarf, my beanie, my book and knitting. And although I was quaking inside, I didn't let them see it and when I look back I feel triumph. Because although I eventually allowed myself to be 'persuaded' to leave, it was after I had been given some concessions and it was when I was ready to leave anyway, on my terms. I still hadn't seen the person I had asked to see but I had been promised consideration for our case and we got it within days. There is only one thing I would maybe do differently - have the media ready to witness me being evicted (should that be about to happen). But maybe that should be Stage II. You can always go back for a second visit, maybe bringing a larger knitting project this time (and a tame reporter with a camera at the ready). But here's hoping you get what you want at Stage I. Hang in there, you are stronger than you think. Marg [/QUOTE]
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