I am Torn

Discussion in 'Parent Emeritus' started by Jen, Sep 9, 2007.

  1. Jen

    Jen New Member

    We got the letter from our lawyer the toerh day basically saying it it up to us if we want to pursue the contempt charges.

    It was a yr ago when we had to dish out another 500.00 when we took her to court filing a contempt charge for not bringing the kid in for visits. Well we are right back their again. My husband is not sure he wants to dish out the money again. He feels this will continue to happen as long as hse is involved with this boyfriend. I see his thought in this, but I think about these kids that we barely know, adn really for the most part havent bonded as part of our family, except for the oldest that were able to bond with from her birth. Part of me though feel we should follow through, let the consequences occur, and hope that a lesson will be learned.

    We have actually thought about calling her work place and then hope to getg through to her as her boyfriend would not be there to know. Thought about driving by their home to get the adress so we can send the kids stuff via certified mail, and maybe see if we could knock on the door ( no restraining orders), the other idea is to stop at her Dads and see if he is aware of this (she depends alot on him) and make sure she is ok.

    Can you give me your opinions?

    Jen
     
  2. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    I would be very careful about showing up unannounced, or especially at her workplace.

    What about a certified letter saying

    "As per our visitation agreement, we will be there to pick up the kids on Saturday (or whatever, but at least 10 days out) at 8:00 AM (or whatever). We will return them at such and such time. Please have them ready to go. If this is not convenient, please reply by return mail no later than five days in advance to offer an alternative date and time."

    Put the case number on the top of the letter, and carbon copy it to the file. (Just mail it to the file clerk in the county with a two sentence cover letting "Please file this in XX-XXCXXX file. Contact me if you have any questions.")

    This is totally unprovocative, and leaves the ball in her court to go on record as being uncooperative. The children's lives are a marathon, not a sprint. I know it seems forever, but you'll get further if you look at the long run and don't try to punish her for every little thing that she does. She's not going to stop if you file contempt charges, and it isn't going to teach her a lesson even if you get the order.
     
  3. Jen

    Jen New Member

    I want to thank all that has responded to my post. OOps , I mean just Wits
     
  4. goldenguru

    goldenguru New Member

    If you have court ordered visitation ... and if she is not following through with her end of the bargain ... they I don't understand why the burden is placed on you.

    Shouldn't the court enforce their own ruling?
     
  5. meowbunny

    meowbunny New Member

    I think you're between that proverbial rock and hard spot. If you try to force the visitation, you'll be out $$, she (and he) will have more bad feelings and the odds are that they will do everything possible to make it difficult to see your grandchildren. If you do nothing, then you will probably only rarely see your grandchildren (at least not until this boy friend is out of the picture). Either way, visitation is probably going to be pretty limited.

    One thing you might try to do is just call the court and talk to the judge's clerk. There might be a solution that doesn't involve going through an attorney. A clerk can't give you legal advice but can give very good suggestions.

    I hope you find a solution. Little ones deserve grandparents if at all possible.
     
  6. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shouldn't the court enforce their own ruling? </div></div>

    Courts might levy a sanction (a small fine and perhaps a stern talking to) if it can be proven that a court order has been violated. This entails filings, pleadings, evidence, attorneys, filing fees, etc. In other words, not for free, and not just because one party complains. They might schedule a hearing few months out. That won't stop mom from behaving poorly in the future. Our legal system is overburdened enough without trying to enforce visitation agreements.

    The best bet for this family is to work it out. If they make peace with each other, they are set for life. Even if mom begrudges it. A certified letter to mom is the best bet to get her to allow visits and keep her from claiming harassment.
     
  7. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: meowbunny</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing you might try to do is just call the court and talk to the judge's clerk. There might be a solution that doesn't involve going through an attorney. A clerk can't give you legal advice but can give very good suggestions.</div></div>

    Don't be surprised if they won't give you any suggestions. It would be more than their job is worth.
     
  8. DammitJanet

    DammitJanet Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Have you considered mediation?

    Also...sometimes you have to play the moms game. It may not be the game you want to play but she has the kids and you want access to them so you have to basically kiss up.
     
  9. Hound dog

    Hound dog Nana's are Beautiful

    Jen

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that you help her alot by getting stuff the kids need ect? Not to mention the day off when you have them? Personally, I'd call her up and let her know that if you don't get to visit the kids all gifts will cease til you do. No point in spoiling grandchildren who will be strangers to you. That it just breaks your heart but that's the way it is....

    I think I'd make that call either way you decide to jump. Might motivate her to tell b/f to shut his trap and butt out of a good thing.

    She's not exactly the brightest bulb in the package is she?? I mean good grief, you seeing the kids is a win/win situation for her. :rolleyes:

    Hugs
     
  10. Jen

    Jen New Member

    Darn it I just posted and hit the return to site rahter than submit, lost it.
    I basically said I think he is the problem. A while aback I had thought of placing a restraining order on him, for calling on several occassions to schedule visits, snf refusing to let us talk to her. He also one time called me late at night cussed me out, adn called me a liar, and I hardly knew him.He so needs to be in his put in his place.

    We have had no verbal contact with her because he answeres and , or scrrens all her calls. Short of calling her work, stopping by the house, we could go the route of certified leter, to se what would happen. I dont know why we couldnt involve some type of obstruction on his part?

    OUr lawyer says it is up to us, but he really hasnt elaborated on what the outcomes, from his experience would be. His letter of suggestion is short and sweet, his wife is his secy and she used to give alot of info experience but hush hush .

    Jen
     
  11. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I might approach this as if the kids may be in danger with him in the picture. If he is this mean and loud and argumentative with you he could be a really bad person to have in the kids lives.

    I think I would fight for full custody. It may just get her to feel the fear of losing them and tell boyfriend to cut it out.

    If you can come across as truly concerned for their safety - people will take notice.
     
  12. mom_to_3

    mom_to_3 Active Member

    I have different feelings than the others. We are in a similar situation with our Grandson in that we used to see him often and about a year ago, his father (who has custody) and his other Grandparents decided to use our beautiful Grandson as a pawn against us. They lied to us and spoke and treated us badly. I was shocked! I guess they needed to feel they had the upper hand with us or something.

    As much as it hurt us, I decided that we will no longer participate in that kind of a relationship. I will not be threatened or screamed at by ignorant people. We absolutely love and adore our Grandson. Sadly, we decided that we would have to "love him" from afar as we would not participate in all the nastiness his father and other Grandparents were spewing. We stepped back and out of every one's lives and did not see our Grandson for almost a year.

    A week ago, we were called and asked if we wanted to set up permanent visitation to see our Grandson. I have yet to speak to his father and will never speak to the other grandparents as long as I live, but our Grandson's step mother called us. She had also participated in the nastiness. She apologized and I accept that. I did tell her my feelings and told her we would never participate if they all wanted to fight and have chaos. We aren't those kind of people. I told her we love our Grandson and would prefer to love him personally, but if need be, we were prepared and willing to "love him from afar".

    Children belong with their parents. Their parents may not do it my way or to my liking, but there are many ways to parent and that is okay as long as the children are not harmed. We chose if we want to be a part of that situation. The priority is the children, not our feelings.

    Do what's in the best interest of your Grandchildren, don't act out of spite or anger. I'm not saying that is what you are doing, but it could be easy to do.
     
  13. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    Mom to 3, I'm glad you wrote. I was feeling a little like the voice in the wilderness. I agree that courts, threats, and fights are a very poor way to set up visits. Jen and these people are never going to like each other or get along. I think two to three sentence certified letters are about the best they can do if they feel that they must pursue this.

    I told L's dad the same thing when L was about 8 and he had divorced her stepmom (he had custody.) I told him that if he ever was uncooperative again, or tried to force me into a courtroom situation again, I would walk away. Mind you, he is a real Romeo, so he wanted his weekends free to cat around, so he didn't press it.

    Busywend, I was actually kind of shocked by your answer. Certainly these people are difficult and unpleasant. But it seems wrong to charge abuse and ask for custody when what has happened is actually an argument with you, and what you want is visitation.
     
  14. Jen

    Jen New Member

    What my husband and I have decided is to leave a message on her cell phone. We may have to *67 first because my husband thinks there has been a block on recieving our calls. My husband message will be to her knowing the boyfriend will listen and probably never giver her the message. It will say something to the fact about seeing the kids, that we have tried to reach her, but she must not be getting our messages, that we are concerned for her safety and the children. That we have talked with her boyfriend and that he is obviously not giving her the messages. Have debated whether to call her Dad or the police, short of stopping by the house to make sure she and the kids are ok.

    Want to still stop by her house and get the address, or may call our lawyer and get it, and send certified letters too after that above idea.

    What do you all think?

    I dont want to take the kids away, I want to be a grandparent only.

    Jen
     
  15. busywend

    busywend Well-Known Member Staff Member

    Witz, you are right. My answer was drastic. And emotional. I do fear for the kids if this boyfriend is truly that unable to be flexible. How is he doing what is best for the kids? Keeping them from their grandparents is not right either. Although I do think they figure Jen is lying about running into her son. To me, that is probably why they are mad now - but this started before that incident.

    I was hopeing to get the mom to see what it could look like to the outside by having her new boyfriend control everything. Expressing that you fear for the kids based on the experiences Jen has had with the new boyfriend is not unreasonable.
     
  16. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What my husband and I have decided is to leave a message on her cell phone. We may have to *67 first because my husband thinks there has been a block on recieving our calls. My husband message will be to her knowing the boyfriend will listen and probably never giver her the message. It will say something to the fact about seeing the kids, that we have tried to reach her, but she must not be getting our messages, that we are concerned for her safety and the children. That we have talked with her boyfriend and that he is obviously not giving her the messages. Have debated whether to call her Dad or the police, short of stopping by the house to make sure she and the kids are ok.

    Want to still stop by her house and get the address, or may call our lawyer and get it, and send certified letters too after that above idea.

    What do you all think?

    I dont want to take the kids away, I want to be a grandparent only.

    Jen </div></div>

    If you don't think she will get the message, what is the point?

    I really think that if what you want is visits, you send a certified letter (cost is $3.06) saying you will be there for visit at a set time. Period. Then no one gets to say that she didn't get the message. If she disallows the visit, you cross that bridge when you come to it.

    The bitterness you feel is natural. It's probably provoked. But it serves no one well to act upon it. Keep your eye on the prize. Visits. The rest only serves to bring you down to their level.
     
  17. goldenguru

    goldenguru New Member

    I guess to me the missing piece of the puzzle is where is your daughter in all of this? If she wants her children to see you ... why is she not calling you to arrange visitations?

    IF you are truly worried about the safety and welfare of your grandchildren ... then you need to call Child Protective Services in my opinion.
     
  18. Jen

    Jen New Member

    The reason we want try another phone call is either hoping she will finaly answere her phone(which I doubt, I think he is in control of that, he has already proven it), or to just leave a message of wanting to see the kids, ouir concern for their safety and hers, and that maybe we should speak with her Dad (who does not care for this boyfriend), or the police. Children services have alreay been involved when it was her and my son, they no longer are. I do not want to jepeordize her keeping the kids, but I certainly want pple to realize that he is what he is and that may be of a concern.

    By the way goldenguru this is my son childre. He has no rights to be a part of the kids lives until he completes the same things that his ex fiance did.

    The lawyer said you cannot , nor can the boyfriend condemn you for accidentally running across your son. It is considered "Act of God". The lawyer said when the boyfriend called I really owed him no explanation, only the mother, that he has no rights, and never will unless he adopts the kids. Heck they arent even engaged to be married.

    Jen
     
  19. witzend

    witzend Well-Known Member

    The way I see it, this woman's boyfriend's will come and go. At some point in time she will be dying for you to take the child for visits so that she can get some "man time". Keep it friendly, and you will be the one that she calls.
     
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