I called the Sheriff.

[HopeRemains]

Ok, difficult child 1's past behaviors included, but not limited to, are trying to kill his siblings; especially difficult child 2. He has hit him on the soft spot with a rock, tried to scaled him with hot water, hit him on the soft spot with his fist, pulled a knife on me, asking with a smile on his face if what he had just done would kill difficult child 2 or break my legs. Urinating in weird places (like the carpet or vent). Raging for hours. Physically attacking me when I would breast feed difficult child 2. Refuse to eat. This was age 4 and 5. Ages 5 - 9 he also had hallucinations. The extreme aggression towards siblings continued. Tried to hit difficult child 3 in the head with a metal baseball bat, locked me out of the house repeatedly (until he figured out I always had keys on me.) Pushed difficult child 2 the length of the van because he thought difficult child 2 was turning into a vampire. Put a rope around difficult child 2's neck. He tried starting a fire once. Hypersexual behaviors started. He was very sneaky. He would hurt other kids even with the insane amount of supervision and I wouldn't see it. The kids at school learned to leave him alone. In second grade, in response to his hypersexual symptoms, an aide was assigned to him. He was incredibly moody and his energy also went up and down. We thought he was bipolar. About age 10 he also started to hurt the other kids while I was watching and within arms length. He was so fast I couldn't stop him in time. He started out small; pushing them, lightly hitting, he lightly kicked easy child 4 in the head when she was 2 months old. Because of his history that is when he went on the waiting list for the Residential Treatment Center (RTC). By the time his name came to the top of the list we had 3 adults in our home almost every day. School had 5 adults in the classroom and still couldn't get him to do any work. If he had a sub then he got aggressive. He is very smart though.

I should've had him in the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) much sooner than I did.

After the Residential Treatment Center (RTC) we've had very few episodes of aggression. And very little defiance. His emotional age increased 2 years in the one year he was there. He went from 2 year old level to 4 year old level. His emotional age has increased a bit since he got out too. He no longer acts bipolar. He still has anxiety and hallucinations. He is like a different kid.

difficult child 1 isn't like your son with the posturing and swearing. He was more sneaky. I you feel like your 3 year old is in danger then something needs to be done. If you feel like your difficult child won't take it past posturing and swearing then ... I'd take swearing over trying to kill his sibs. difficult child 1 never swore.

Hope your afternoon goes well.

difficult child doesn't swear (anymore), but he has no problem coming up with nasty things to scream. The episode where he blocked me into the hallway I was actually afraid. He was huffing and puffing and just watching me, waiting for me to react in some way. I didn't want to turn my back on him for fear I'd get a wooden stool upside my head. I have been watching my back lately, because he's just getting bolder.

He bullies easy child all the time. Umm... let's see... he's stabbed him in the hand with a fork when easy child was 1, constantly pushing easy child while he was learning to walk (leading to 3 chipped front teeth that are constant reminders to me). He hits/pushes/hurts him if we are not in sight and easy child irritates him somehow (he never "meant" to do it, though, or easy child had it coming...uh huh. I do worry. I try to keep them (at least the little one) in my sight at all times when difficult child is home, but he runs to his brother. He thinks difficult child is just great. difficult child tells easy child how mean I am to him. Now when he hurts easy child, he tries to make him laugh before easy child cries so that husband and I will not hear. easy child also hits constantly now. He has learned that this is what you do when you are mad. He also hits when he plays. They are both in timeout quite often for hitting eachother.

As for hurting other children, I don't see that in him. He is a people pleaser and I don't think he has friends he feels comfortable enough around to "hurt" them. This is reserved for us and also his little brother in his biomom's house.

 

[HopeRemains]

Oh... and thank you! I hope your day goes well, too.

Thanks to all of you ladies, so much. You are all wonderful! =)

 

[susiestar]

Do you have a copy of The Bipolar Child by papalos? the last name is problem spelled wrong, sorry. It is a great book on bipolar and it has a medication protocol. If the psychiatrist thinks that he has bipolar, why is difficult child not on at least one mood stabilizer? the abilify is an atypical antipsychotic and yes, it is also needed and is helping, but it will NOT stabilize his moods. Until moods are stable, NOTHING is going to improve. The medication protocol is designed and approved by the board that certifies child and adolescent psychiatrists, not something an author created.

I will warn you that MANY (all the ones I have spoken with - each time Wiz had a problem (or had to see a new psychiatrist)they wanted to change the diagnosis to bipolar but they NEVER wanted to follow the protocol so i refused. Drove several psychiatrists NUTS - which I admit was kinda fun because they were idjits and short stops on our road to help. I always had the book with me and opened it when they started to talk medications. The psychiatrist would say that he wanted to change to this antidepressant and I would say "Wait a minute. You say he is bipolar, and the acad of psychiatrists says that people with bipolar should NOT take a/d's until they are stabilized on 1-2 mood stabilizers and an antipsychotic if needed. we know that if he is bipolar then he is in NO way stable, so why not do a medication wash and then start with the mood stab/antipsychotics? or at least use those in addition to what he is on?"

THey would then decide he was NOT bipolar and his medications just needed an adjustment. Asking WHY??? they didn't want to do the mood stabs, esp since Wiz had NO problems with whatever tests were needed to monitor his medications, never got a real answer. Most sort of just looked at me with that idiotic 'How dare you question me?' look and ignored the question. But if they ever tried to use the bipolar diagnosis, they had to answer the ?? before they could rx anything.

WHY this protocol? Because it WORKS. We have several adults on the board with bipolar and they have told us that the difference between being on an a/d and being on the proper medications for bipolar is incredible. A/d's generally cause mania and they often felt wonderful on them, but they got stranger and more manic and out of control. On the mood stabs and antipsychotics, they felt more like themselves than they ever had, or had in years and years. If it works that well for adults, then it is worth pushing for with kids, at least I felt that way.

the book is very helpful. Until difficult child is on the right medications, and that can take quite a while to find them and get them to the right level, pretty much NOTHING you do is going to change his behavior and problems. He NEEDS these medications to correct his brain chemistry and until that happens he is UNABLE to change. he is NOT in control of everything, and all things you are doing are great but won't help the bigger picture because this is a chemical imbalance - a physical problem. My mom raised us with the line "physical solutions to physical problems". Too short to reach something? get a stool. Chemical imbalance? Take medications. therapy won't help a chemical imbalance any more than it will fix kidney stones or diabetes. Sure, some things will help the symptoms, but until the problem is addressed, all the therapy in the universe won't really help.

Get to the doctor with husband and difficult child. Start a parent report and take it with you - make sure to have extra copies in case you want to leave sections with the psychiatrist. If husband won't take you to the psychiatrist, send difficult child to work wtih him for a few days. Sure his boss won't like it, and maybe husband will have to take a sick day or two or three, but he WILL get the point. You may not have the legal rights of a parent, but you love the child and you may have to back husband into a corner to force him to get the best help for difficult child.

the parent report info is in my sig and it is an incredibly powerful tool. You write it all about difficult child - the good as well as the bad - and you keep ALL the info you have in the report. The thread explains it - and you can find the thread by the link in my signature.

 

[HopeRemains]

I don't have that book, but thank you for the suggestion and advice. I will pick it up this weekend when I go to get "The Explosive Child". This is our first psychiatrist. When we went in she asked a few questions, had us fill out two quizzes. One was bipolar symptoms, one was adhd. This hour long session was the extent of the "evaluation" and she sent us on our way packing the Abilify samples and a prescription. She said the diagnosis was bipolar, but I have since requested a written diagnosis. On that, she lists his diagnosis as bipolar, adhd and anxiety. I am going to ask the therapist if he can recommend a new psychiatrist. I had a hard time finding someone who accepted children for some reason.

I had done some research on a few different diagnosis' that sounded like him on paper (so many do.?) and I knew that for bipolar there is normally a mood stabalizer in addition to the ap, but was so new I took doctor's word that she knew what she was doing. I have questioned her diagnosis of biopolar, and she said she just threw the book at him diagnosis wise, because at that age the child cannot communicate properly so they won't be able to help with the diagnosis. ? I felt relieved in the beginning because I dared to hope that something would change in his behavior... it did, but now it's getting worse again. Now I feel like we've been kinda strung along.

I agree with buddy that he needs an extensive evaluation, I just have no idea where to get one. I've talked to psychiatrist about it and she dismissed it. I feel like I am walking into a world of doctors and processes I have no clue about and I don't know what questions to ask or where to turn. I'm thankful that this forum exists because I can try to glean some knowledge from you ladies who have already been here.

I have heard of the parent report before, perhaps on this forum. I am going to go and take a look and start building this report. It just makes sense.

It's funny you should mention husband taking difficult child to work with him. He actually suggested it last night! It wouldn't be everyday, but if difficult child has been acting out, husband already cleared it with his boss that he can bring him. I gave husband a big hug for taking the initiative! He also talked to his Mom and difficult child will be going to visit her once a week while husband is at work, so I am very happy that he finally decided he was going to take some responsibility and helped out!

 

[susiestar]

The idea of taking difficult child to work was not so much to give you a break but to let husband see firsthand how tough it is to get a difficult child to behave when they don't want to. it is one of the few things i found effectively got my husband to be involved.

As for the psychiatrist handing out diagnosis's with-o any real evaluation, in my opinion that isn't unusual. we found a developmental pediatrician who did a full evaluation with the other members of his practice - all types of therapists and a psychometrist (psychologist trained in testing methods and tools and evaluating the results) and they ALL evaluation'ed Wiz and then met and discussed their results to find a diagnosis that really worked for him. A neuropsychologist does something similar and these evaluations take several appts and total 8-12 hours if they are really good. Of course some of the testing cannot be done as effectively until a child is older, but there is enough to give a decent idea of what is going on with an 8yo. We actually got the first Asperger's diagnosis from a psychiatrist after a 45 min appointment. but he shows MANY classic signs of Asperger's, so it wasn't that hard. He truly shows few signs of bipolar as he is NEVER manic, but has many signs of depression. Wiz did not start turning himself around until he was on 3 antidepressants - for different things but all 3 medications are antidepressants as well. Those were what enabled him to truly turn things around. But if he was bipolar they would have sent him over the edge into major mood spiraling. That is why I pushed every doctor who tried to give him teh bipolar diagnosis - he truly NEVER fit the symptoms of bipolar no matter what a doctor said. It would be rather like saying that I am male - just not true.

I have NO idea why docs don't seem to want to rx mood stabs when they diagnosis bipolar. Most here want to rx lexapro or effexor and both are highly likely to make a bipolar person go manic in a major way. None would give me ANY real answer other than to say that I seemed 'resistant' to accepting the bipolar diagnosis. Which is nonsense - I didn't care WhAT they called him as long as they helped. But you cannot give the name and then not give the treatment that is PROVEN to help - not if I know about it. I am resistant to THAT and most of the psychiatrists simply didn't care, near as I could tell. They seemed to want me to shut up and say 'OK dr. God Sir, anything you want" and that just is NOT me. My husband laughed at one of them when he got all insulted because I asked "too many questions". husband told him to try being married to me if he thought i asked too many questions. I just laughed with husband and AT the psychiatrist because truly, he was an absolute idiot. He tried to convince us that asperger's and bipolar looked exactly alike, had exactly the same symptoms and only through 'instinct' could you tell the difference. husband thought I would start rolling on the floor because I was laughing at him so hard. It was the stupidest thing I had ever heard of.

Anyway, while you are gettng books, look for What Your Explosive Child Is Trying to Tell You by Doug Riley. It is awesome and truly helps you figure out the WHY behind the explosions.

I am very glad your husband is taking a more active role. that is awesome.

 

[buddy]

LOVE that difficult child will be out of the house once a week....I know my 12 hours off makes a huge difference (because even in school until recently I was always on call...so that was MORE stressful than his being with me...getting a little better now).

And as Susie said, if they get to see what it is like for you??? so much the better! He may honeymoon and they may not get that not having easy child around is a totally different thing (plus he seems pretty aware of how to cover things up and then to let it out on you) but this is a good step.

As for where to start? Call the closest children's hospital, outpatient clinics and university clinics. Tell them you want a neuropsychology evaluation for your child. Even when you can't make an appointment with a certain place, this often leads to another idea for where to call. Always ask if they know of any other places that do this kind of evaluation.

As Susie said, a developmental pediatrician is another option. They often have a team approach and it can be really nice. (as with anything, there are good neuropsychs and good dev. pediatricians). I NEVER ask if my docs think I should do this or that when it comes to evaluations. I just tell them them this is where we are right now and it is time for another evaluation. Then I expect they will do their part to refer once I find where I want him to go. Of course I live in a large metro area so the options are pretty good. Most p eople have to travel for this but it is WELL worth it. One of those things that pays off in the long run for sure.

When you call, make sure to ask if they have worked with kids with attachment problems. Since your gut is saying this is an issue, it really does take a special expertise in this area. Many people assume they know what that is, but have not r eally read on i t. I worked with a psychiatric a nd social worker who, when I suggested this little boy who was hitting the K teacher and kids and throwing things and dad said there were issues at home...said no he doesn't have any attachment problems, we saw him run and sit on (single adoptive) dad's lap when he came in...he gave him a big hug. I thought I'd throw up. I tried very carefully to share things I h ad (he had been in an orphanage till age SEVEN! can you believe it was even not a FIRST thought?....not to mention FASD and other common issues from a Russian adoption situation). Many of the experts in this are in adoption clinics or connected to them so you can contact them and they are also then usually practicing in private and work with attachment from other situations. The foster system is becoming better in general at recognizing this issue (laws for termination of rights and placement have changed in many places realizing that they need security at an early age... here they get six months and if they blow it the kid, esp if a baby is placed so that there is a c hance for normal bonding, much less tolerance for bouncing a kid around and losing the chance to give them a better chance--trust me I would prefer it be the bio parent if they can get well because there are issues either way, but the damage from a chaotic start is just so hard to treat and overcome.---sorry for getting off track, it is just such a preventable thing in many cases so it hits my heart).

This takes a lot of work and you have taken on a big responsibility which is a huge choice. Of course difficult child had no choice and it is not his fault but the reality of it is you have to live with this and you have easy child to protect. Hoping this step of husband hearing you is just that, a step that will continue and he will also support evaluations and recommendations from the professionals. I'd hate for him to look back and realize he could have done something when it is too late.......He does sound like a good guy under it all but he MUST wake up for his entire family's sake.

 

[Liahona]

We thought difficult child 1 was bipolar, but he wasn't. He has PTSD from x and very high anxiety and maybe some Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) thrown in. He had the symptoms of bipolar but no medications ever worked. Or if they did it was only for a few weeks at most a month before it didn't work any more. I read "The Bipolar Child" and difficult child 1's symptoms fit so well I was convinced he was bipolar. The PTSD coupled with what ever else is wrong with him looked like bipolar. He got his current diagnosis in the Residential Treatment Center (RTC). The neuropsychologist there had to follow him around for 3 days before she could figure out what was going on with him. Because of x its really hard to sort out all the diagnosis of what is wrong with him. I still don't know if she got it right. I'm not sure he is Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD). He has very low social skills in some areas and some sensory issues. Other areas he has high social skills that my other Autism Spectrum Disorders (ASD) kids don't have.

My point is diagnosis aren't written in stone. Even the best psychiatrists don't caught everything, and don't be afraid to changes psychiatrists or tdocs if they aren't working well for difficult child or you.

 

[HopeRemains]

husband does know how badly difficult child can act and has experienced it all with me- and gets very frustrated sometimes, even though he's more patient than I am. difficult child doesn't discriminate when it comes to having rages. However, husband doesn't get the pleasure of it every single day, alone, while trying to keep easy child from getting the brunt of it. He also can get difficult child to at least go to his room (where he eventually cools off) and isn't fearful that every move he makes is going to be scrutinized. He will never understand that part of it the way that I do, because he doesn't know what it's really like to be raising a child that isn't legally his own. He also doesn't have difficult child stalking him around the house and doing the bullying because he can cut that whole part out by escorting him to his room. So, something that would be over in 15 minutes when husband is here can turn into hours when I am alone. That is what husband doesn't understand. I think that I just explained it better here than I ever have to husband. I wish I didn't need to explain it, that what he sees and hears and my pleading would be enough.

You both have given such great advice. I do not think difficult child is bipolar and have questioned it since day one. I am absolutely going to call the Children's Hospital and ask around! I will make sure to ask if they've worked with attachment disorders. I brought up attachment disorder to psychiatrist during her "evaluation" and she said that because I'd never seen him hurt small animals that his behavior wasn't extreme enough to consider it. It was spot on, to me. BioMom was a drug addict and primary care giver when he was a baby (while husband worked long hours-and he did not know she was a drug abuser at that point.) for almost a year. Not to mention she was violent and narcissistic, she has continued to be in and out of difficult child's life when she felt like it for the first 6 years of his life. Now she's regular visits but lies and manipulates him. Poor kid can't catch a break!!! But if that along with his behaviors don't just SCREAM attachment disorder then I don't know what does.

In the initial meeting with new therapist, while describing behaviors and his past, offered up that it sounded like attachment issues without me ever having mentioned it. I like this guy so much. He also worked at Boy's Town for 13 yrs... I feel like I caught the big fish in the pond!

susie- I love that you grill the doctors! Your child is so lucky to have you fighting for him. I am not quite as aggressive, but that is only because so far I am not armed with the knowledge you are... YET! =) Working on it, though.

 

[keista]

it's funny you should mention husband taking difficult child to work with him. He actually suggested it last night! It wouldn't be everyday, but if difficult child has been acting out, husband already cleared it with his boss that he can bring him. I gave husband a big hug for taking the initiative! He also talked to his mom and difficult child will be going to visit her once a week while husband is at work, so i am very happy that he finally decided he was going to take some responsibility and helped out!

most excellent!

 

[TerryJ2]

Hi Hoperemains, you've gotten some great feedback here.

I have to say, this caught my eye: He doesn't want the expense and thinks it will look strange if we send an 8 yr old to a daycare,
Arrgh! You and husband have to be on the same page. You have to lay down the law with-husband about how this is affecting you. It isn't about not loving "his" son, it's about your son having serious issues, and your not being able to cope with-it day in and day out.
Okay, easy for me to say, because it took me yrs to get my husband onthe same page, lol!

Who the H8888 cares if it looks strange to send an 8-yr-old to daycare? Good grief, does your husband wear only trousers that the neighbors like, too?

I'll stop now. This is making me crazy.

Many, many hugs. I hear you!

 

[TerryJ2]

P.S. You should be able to get a good referral for a psychiatric from the pediatrician. Or just use the yellow pages.

 

[HopeRemains]

Terry- Lol... No, if he had his way he'd wear swimming trunks all year round with no shirt, black socks and sneakers! So I really don't get where he's coming from with the caring what a sitter or daycare would think! =)

In all actuality, though I'd told him very seriously that I would eventually have to call the Sheriff, I was a bit afraid that he would hate me for it. But he didn't, he was supportive. Baby steps...baby steps.

 

[keista]

swimming trunks all year round with no shirt, black socks and sneakers!

OMW! This is my Dad at the beach! He used to say only nerds wear white socks. UHG! Fortunately his wife got him to finally ditch those black socks.